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Old December 30th, 2008, 06:07 PM   #1041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing
but for a city as big as Shanghai, I'd have thought at least 1 minute frequencies for all lines during peak hour would be the norm.
The system is still growing... I think we just need to give it time to mature.
Besides, I have yet to see anything close to one minute frequencies (60tph!) anywhere. With the volumes of passengers that Shanghai is and will be dealing with at major stations, two minutes is probably the limit without additional platform capacity.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 06:54 PM   #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
The system is still growing... I think we just need to give it time to mature.
Besides, I have yet to see anything close to one minute frequencies (60tph!) anywhere. With the volumes of passengers that Shanghai is and will be dealing with at major stations, two minutes is probably the limit without additional platform capacity.
Moscow has 40 seconds between trains...
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Old December 30th, 2008, 08:08 PM   #1043
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What I have heard from Moscow is 40-45 tph, which is quite good, of course, but it's still a big jump from that to 60tph. You have to lose 30 seconds there for each train. Probably not feasible if you have any stations where there is significant loading and/or alighting leading to long dwell times. Clearly you could design your station with two island platforms and have staggered arrival/departure, or have people alight on one side and board on the other, but these aren't typically elements designed or implemented from the get-go... They're more possible solutions to capacity is maxed out.

And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen trains in the Moscow Metro open doors before the train has even stopped. While this does help reduce the dwell times a bit and probably helps allow for higher frequencies, I don't think it's accepted as safe practice elsewhere.

Hong Kong and Tokyo, which are more similar to Shanghai, still don't break 2 min.
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Old December 31st, 2008, 06:51 AM   #1044
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Was wondering if those who know could either post them here or direct me to somewhere which has more pictures of the Shanghai Metro?

Also, what is the alignment of Line 13? A map would be helpful.
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 04:33 AM   #1045
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new record set

2008/12/31
new ridership record: 4,362,000
line 1: 1,362,000
2: 1,129,000
3: 508,000
4: 526,000
5: 125,000
6: 163,000
8: 440,000
9: 110,000
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Old January 2nd, 2009, 06:28 PM   #1046
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does anyone have an updated map of future routes?
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 01:35 AM   #1047
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This map just appeared recently on Wikipedia. It's a good outline of the upcoming new lines and extensions.

It's really huge so I'll just post the link.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ro_2012_en.jpg
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Old January 4th, 2009, 05:09 AM   #1048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Moscow has 40 seconds between trains...
Yes, that is between the last train leaving and the next one arriving.

What was being discussed was headway which is the time between two trains passing the same point.

Moscow, AFAIK, has 95sec headways on the busiest lines which is 38tph.

This will give the impression that trains are running at "40 second frequencies" because the train behind a train sitting idle in a station will undoubtedly catch up. This effect is magnified if there have been delayed and there is a backlog of trains...
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Old January 6th, 2009, 08:42 PM   #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liwentao_tom View Post
Line Opened Newest Extension Length Stations
1 1995 2007 36.4 km 28
2 1999 2006 25.2 km 17
3 2000 2006 40.3 km 29
4 2005 2007 33.7 km 26
5 2003 2003 17.0 km 11
6 2007 2007 33.1 km 27
8 2007 2007 23.3 km 20
9 2007 2008 35.4 km 13
Total: 234.7 km 163
Does it mean that line 3 and 4 have a common 10-km track?
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Old January 6th, 2009, 08:46 PM   #1050
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iampuking, surely 40 sec for Moscow is nothing about headways. But the peak headway might reach 80 - 95 sec, I've seen it many times, and that was not between a pair of trains but a real headway detected within 6 or 7 pairs of trains (I had no time to watch more). Anyway, probably, this has been the word record so far?

P.S. Speaking about the first figure (between the 1st train's departure and the following's arrival), I've seen many times 35 seconds, and the least was 30. But in that case the train stayed longer and made a headway of 75 sec.
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Old January 6th, 2009, 08:49 PM   #1051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
And please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen trains in the Moscow Metro open doors before the train has even stopped. While this does help reduce the dwell times a bit and probably helps allow for higher frequencies, I don't think it's accepted as safe practice elsewhere.

Hong Kong and Tokyo, which are more similar to Shanghai, still don't break 2 min.
You're absolutely right, very often in rush hour doors are opened before the train has completely stopped but is it not a legal practice I mean this is practised when the tarin is late by several seconds (so precious at rush hour!)

As for Tokyo, they can afford to have such headways with their hundred of lines...
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Old January 7th, 2009, 01:03 AM   #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
iampuking, surely 40 sec for Moscow is nothing about headways. But the peak headway might reach 80 - 95 sec, I've seen it many times, and that was not between a pair of trains but a real headway detected within 6 or 7 pairs of trains (I had no time to watch more). Anyway, probably, this has been the word record so far?

P.S. Speaking about the first figure (between the 1st train's departure and the following's arrival), I've seen many times 35 seconds, and the least was 30. But in that case the train stayed longer and made a headway of 75 sec.
I don't know of personal observations but i've checked russian websites and they have shown that the busiest lines run 95sec headways; 38tph.

How close the trains appear to be is irrelevant as it does not represent the overall passenger carrying capacity.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 02:06 AM   #1053
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Quote:
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Does it mean that line 3 and 4 have a common 10-km track?
Yes, they share an elevated section of track.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 12:33 PM   #1054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I don't know of personal observations but i've checked russian websites and they have shown that the busiest lines run 95sec headways; 38tph.

How close the trains appear to be is irrelevant as it does not represent the overall passenger carrying capacity.
I've seen it many times and that was, I repeat, not between two trains only. 95 seconds is a more or less official figure, but in fact it may often be lower.


You are absolutely right with the statement. For me, a figure like "38tph" doesn't say anything important because average speed is not mentioned. And indeed, it should be.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 12:34 PM   #1055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Yes, they share an elevated section of track.
I know that, I just didn't know that the shared piece is 10 km long.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 10:52 PM   #1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
I've seen it many times and that was, I repeat, not between two trains only. 95 seconds is a more or less official figure, but in fact it may often be lower.
Why would signallers deliberately increase the timetabled frequency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
You are absolutely right with the statement. For me, a figure like "38tph" doesn't say anything important because average speed is not mentioned. And indeed, it should be.
No, that's not what I meant. How close together trains appear when standing at the platform is irrelevant, as if it is timetabled to 38tph then there will be 38 trains per hour and that is the capacity.

Average speed is important if we are discussing about journey times, but we are not.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 11:31 PM   #1057
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I don't know why but it happens. And as I already said, it occurs not with 2 trains only.

It is often seen on lines 3 (dark blue), sometimes 6 (orange) or 9 (grey).
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Old January 7th, 2009, 11:37 PM   #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
I don't know why but it happens. And as I already said, it occurs not with 2 trains only.

It is often seen on lines 3 (dark blue), sometimes 6 (orange) or 9 (grey).
But how can you tell? You are only viewing a small snapshot of the service, are you working in the control centre??!?
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Old January 8th, 2009, 03:58 AM   #1059
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I am not going to argue, that's not my objective, however, 10 minutes is not a small snapshot during rush hour since headways are so short. I've just told you about what occurs in Moscow and what the Shanghai metro should strive for.

If you are interested, I may copy the timetable.

Let's get back to the topic.
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Old January 8th, 2009, 09:41 PM   #1060
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Train intervals to shorten on Line 6

2009-1-8


THE interval between trains on Metro Line 6 will be reduced to three-and-half minutes later this year, Xinhua News Agency reported today.

New carriages will be delivered in June and the city's subway operator will put them into use upon completion of safety tests.

The interval is presently more than six minutes on Line 6. About 50 percent of all passengers use the line during morning and evening rush hours, which causes overcrowding.

In addition, Line 7, the second phase of lines 8 and 9 and phase one of Line 11 are expected to open by the end of the year.

Shanghai's subway network will stretch about 340 kilometers when these open.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/arti...cle_387377.htm
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