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Old January 9th, 2009, 01:31 PM   #1061
_Night City Dream_
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...which will put it on what place in the world? 3rd?
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Old January 14th, 2009, 01:01 PM   #1062
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Here is a new update future subway map

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Old January 14th, 2009, 02:27 PM   #1063
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How accurate is it? I recognize the base map, but it seems like some of the lines have been added "by hand".
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Old January 14th, 2009, 04:10 PM   #1064
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It is accurate and the outer purple line you see going around the outside of the subway system has just been proposed not approved to be built and the others are subject to change but pretty accurate
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Old January 25th, 2009, 11:16 PM   #1065
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Concerning the outer purple line, what is its approximate estimated length? Some 100 km or less?
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Old January 26th, 2009, 12:36 AM   #1066
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Some Pictures of Line 7 Construction









[IMG]http://www.unitedmetro.net.cn/attachments/month_0901
/20090125_b588149ecfd2ab1fcc5dPWc8BYdJzDP6.jpg[/IMG]

About the outer purple subway line it will be about 110km. If it gets built
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Old January 30th, 2009, 09:27 PM   #1067
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Thanks for sharing pics, please, keep posting them.

Is there any info on new lines in the surroundings of Hongqiao? I especially mean the districts close to the Elevated road that goes west.

Can you give me some links where Shanghai metro is discussed and photos are regularly posted? Thank you.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:47 AM   #1068
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Line 10, planned name M1, is a rapid transit line currently under construction in Shanghai. The line will have a main line and a branch line; the first phase of the main line will run from New Jiangwan Town to Hongqiao Railway Station and Hongqiao International Airport. The branch line will run from Longxi Road on the main line to Hanghua Xincun. The second phase, in planning, is a northern extension of the first phase of Line 10 from New Jiangwan Town to the Waigaoqiao Area and Gangcheng Road, which is currently served by Line 6. It is expected to be in operation by 2010.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 10:45 AM   #1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveciye View Post
It is accurate and the outer purple line you see going around the outside of the subway system has just been proposed not approved to be built and the others are subject to change but pretty accurate
Do you know anything else about that monster circular line? The length should be something like 80km, amazing.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 01:40 PM   #1070
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Quote:
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How! 21 lines... I think it's an absolute word record!
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Old February 10th, 2009, 03:26 AM   #1071
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How! 21 lines... I think it's an absolute word record!
Its 21 lines is not as great as it seems! It should be a point of disappointment rather than celebration! The reason why Shanghai seems to be on its way to have the largest metro system in the world is because no other city is stupid enough not to separate suburban rail from subway. Look at other truly world class cities, London, Tokyo, Paris, New York, Rome, Copenhagen, etc. They all have a metro system that services the downtown and inner suburbs, but for outer suburbs, they use legitimate suburban rail lines. Even Beijing is starting to do this (Beijing Suburban Railway Line 2)! And to be honest because Shanghai's city planners are stupid enough to combine suburban rail and subway, its system of 970 km should be compared to other city's subway PLUS suburban rail, in which case you realize Shanghai's rail network is pitifully small. For example, New York has around 3000 km of route length (where four tracks servicing the same route is only counted once as oppose to four) when you combine the subway and its three suburban rail systems. Tokyo has well over 2000 km.

As a native Shanghainese, I am very disappointed to see my home city's metro being butchered by inept planners. Alas, there's nothing any ordinary forumer like us can do.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 04:03 AM   #1072
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To my knowledge, all lines that are shown in this plan are true "subway/metro" lines. They are not suburban rail.

Most of the north american cities use sub-urban rail because it is cheaper than metro and let them cut infrastructure investment that has to be spend in case they convert those lines into metro. Using suburban rails is not what I call fun or efficient in USA. They are generally very expensive (like 5$ one way) and very infrequent (like every 2 hour).

So, lacking suburban rail roads and having more metro is a great thing in my opinion.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 04:03 AM   #1073
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I won't pretend to know much of anything about Shanghai's system, but does this image not show suburban-type rail? (the blue lines should be "urban express" or something to that effect)


(from Wikipedia)

I hear a lot of flack about Shanghai Metro, particularly from outsiders, and I wouldn't be surprised if most, if not all of it, was unfounded. Granted, I think the "longest metro" claim is foolish as well, but the map shows Lines 1, 2, 9, and 11 extending further out than the core underground network, which would seem to indicate these are suburban / commuter type routes. What is the operating plan for these lines? Is it all local service, or are there grades like express, limited, etc.? The devil is in the details, and unfortunately this map doesn't really provide much information other than routes and stations.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 04:40 AM   #1074
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Shanghai will also be a HSR hub so it won't just be served by metro.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 04:48 PM   #1075
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Any info on HSR in Shanghai? Lines, hubs etc.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 04:54 PM   #1076
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Quote:
I won't pretend to know much of anything about Shanghai's system, but does this image not show suburban-type rail? (the blue lines should be "urban express" or something to that effect)
it's definitely a suburb. but 'suburban' commuter rail vs. your typical inner city subway is a play on semantics. shanghai's (like hong kong and singapore's) population density does not taper off significantly at its urban boundaries, thus the far-flung line 9 can potentially have frequencies more akin to urban lines than the often disappointing and inconvenient suburban commuter rail systems (which are generally surrounded by very low density). express services are generally an offshoot of intercity railways, like other large cities.

it's not just about providing network length and/or a combination of inner city and suburban service. you'd also want to limit sprawl as much as possible by keeping a high minimum density.

potential pitfalls will come up if the combination of developer greed and political corruption lead to a flowering of profitable, car-dependent sprawl. let's just hope it doesn't morph into anything like... us.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 06:21 PM   #1077
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it's definitely a suburb. but 'suburban' commuter rail vs. your typical inner city subway is a play on semantics. shanghai's (like hong kong and singapore's) population density does not taper off significantly at its urban boundaries...
Yes, I know, but for the sake of not complicating matters, I chose the vague terms of "suburban rail" and "commuter rail." I'm not a fan of this terminology either.

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Originally Posted by particlez
thus the far-flung line 9 can potentially have frequencies more akin to urban lines than the often disappointing and inconvenient suburban commuter rail systems (which are generally surrounded by very low density). express services are generally an offshoot of intercity railways, like other large cities.
Agreed, but I suppose the question isn't so much about frequency, but rather stopping pattern. One can have a high-frequency system, but if they are all local trains like in Paris, for example, it can still take a substantial amount of time to get places. To address this demand for quick point-to-point travel, New York uses express tracks, Paris uses a completely separate system with higher capacity and longer station spacing, Tokyo uses a combination of express tracks and passing tracks... So is Shanghai planning something similar to these setups?
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Old February 10th, 2009, 09:49 PM   #1078
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Quote:
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Agreed, but I suppose the question isn't so much about frequency, but rather stopping pattern. One can have a high-frequency system, but if they are all local trains like in Paris, for example, it can still take a substantial amount of time to get places. To address this demand for quick point-to-point travel, New York uses express tracks, Paris uses a completely separate system with higher capacity and longer station spacing, Tokyo uses a combination of express tracks and passing tracks... So is Shanghai planning something similar to these setups?
Unfortunately that's what I was ranting about earlier. Based on the plan, the really long lines are just extensions of Line 1, 2, 9, and 11, which having already opened look to be just a regular subway capacity line operating on suburban rail lengths. So to address your question, no there will be no express or sophisticated system to address the massive distances. They will just be big local lines, stopping at every stop, which attests to the mindblowing stupidity/simplicity of Shanghai's transportation planners.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 10:15 PM   #1079
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^the intercity lines between shanghai's center and hangzhou, suzhou, etc. all will have stops in the urban areas in-between.

no transportation planner is THAT stupid. at the same time, it's not fair to expect 4-track service like you have in manhattan. manhattan's long and skinny geography sets it apart. parallel 2-track lines would double the catchment area for essentially the same cost.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 11:01 PM   #1080
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I don't believe that the first picture (the one without the long blue lines) illustrates anything much to worry about.

The lines don't really go into the suburbs. So for service to Chongming or some other outlying area I believe there will be suburban rail or express tracks to accommodate. Anything short of that would be incomprehensible.

Also, from my experience on the Shanghai metro, getting across town doesn't take a ridiculous amount of time. For example, from the end of line 2 at Zhangjiang to People's Square takes 15 minutes including time spent waiting on the platform. I haven't done a complete end-to-end test but I am sure that it is not as bad as it's made out to be.
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