daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 12th, 2009, 09:30 PM   #1101
particlez
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 532
Likes (Received): 106

quashlo, i didn't make my point clearly. the high densities by definition will permit shorter travel times. the colored lines run through the urbanized areas of shanghai, and have routes roughly between 20 and 40 kilometers long. unless you're commuting from one far-flung suburb to another, most trips will come in well under an hour.

it's not markedly different from vancouver's skytrain line, which falls in between, but has its largest commercial node at one end. criticizing shanghai for its line lengths simply does not make sense.

the blue lines will extend to the various satellite cities. these ones will have fewer stops and longer distances.

then there are the intercity lines to other cities within the region.
particlez está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 13th, 2009, 06:07 AM   #1102
rhotidhs7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seoul,Korea
Posts: 39
Likes (Received): 0

It's nice. But i heard the Seoul(Capital of South Korea) has the biggest metro lines.
rhotidhs7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2009, 05:48 AM   #1103
The Chemist
Right you are, Ken
 
The Chemist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shanghai / 上海
Posts: 305
Likes (Received): 21

Does anybody here know what the deal is with the double platform (doors opening on both sides) on southbound Line 8 at People's Square? The other side platform looks very temporary (signage, walls, etc), and I haven't been able to figure out why it's there.
__________________
城市,让生活更美好
"He could have been yawning or snarling - the story was never clear..."
My Flickr Photos
The Chemist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2009, 05:57 AM   #1104
The Chemist
Right you are, Ken
 
The Chemist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shanghai / 上海
Posts: 305
Likes (Received): 21

Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
quashlo, i didn't make my point clearly. the high densities by definition will permit shorter travel times. the colored lines run through the urbanized areas of shanghai, and have routes roughly between 20 and 40 kilometers long. unless you're commuting from one far-flung suburb to another, most trips will come in well under an hour.
Line 2 will be 62km long when the Airport extensions open next year. But I doubt that every single train will run the whole length - I expect it's going to be something like the situation currently on Line 1 (some trains terminate at Shanghai Railway Station rather than going on to Fujin Road) where some trains will terminate at Zhangjiang High Tech Park rather than going on to Pudong Airport.

Lines 7 and 9 will also be longer than 40km as of next year.

But I do agree with your point - the journey times on the Shanghai Metro are not horrible. I think that express lines are not really needed on the system. And where the lines get out into far-flung suburbs (such as on lines 6 and 9) the stations become further apart, so the metro becomes more like a commuter system anyway.
__________________
城市,让生活更美好
"He could have been yawning or snarling - the story was never clear..."
My Flickr Photos
The Chemist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2009, 07:04 AM   #1105
napkcirtap
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 88
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Does anybody here know what the deal is with the double platform (doors opening on both sides) on southbound Line 8 at People's Square? The other side platform looks very temporary (signage, walls, etc), and I haven't been able to figure out why it's there.

the new platforms are built on what used to be relay tracks. there were two tracks for relay, one for line 1 and one for line8, the demolished the line 8 tracks and converted the space into a platform, the line 1 track is still behind thouse temporary walls. there are plans to demolish the line 1 relay tracks and expand the current new platform, so sb 8 train and nb 1 train passengers can have crossplatform transfers.
napkcirtap no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 14th, 2009, 07:07 AM   #1106
napkcirtap
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 88
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Line 2 will be 62km long when the Airport extensions open next year. But I doubt that every single train will run the whole length - I expect it's going to be something like the situation currently on Line 1 (some trains terminate at Shanghai Railway Station rather than going on to Fujin Road) where some trains will terminate at Zhangjiang High Tech Park rather than going on to Pudong Airport.

Lines 7 and 9 will also be longer than 40km as of next year.

But I do agree with your point - the journey times on the Shanghai Metro are not horrible. I think that express lines are not really needed on the system. And where the lines get out into far-flung suburbs (such as on lines 6 and 9) the stations become further apart, so the metro becomes more like a commuter system anyway.
plans r for the 2 trains to terminate 5-8 kilometers from the current zhangjiang terminal and 2-east trains will start from there on all the way to PVG, platforms on the eastern extension can only accomidate 6 car trains while platforms on the rest of the lines do 8 car trains, there will be limited thru train service during rush hour, during off peak hours , u will have to transfer at this terminal.
napkcirtap no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2009, 07:52 PM   #1107
particlez
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 532
Likes (Received): 106

woops, i didn't factor in the expansions. but anyway, the longest subways lines still aren't longer than many lines in other large cities. who's going to ride the entire line distances anyway? line 7 snakes around the city and is/will be intersected by other lines. line 2 goes from one satellite city in the east to another in the far west, passing through the inner urbanized area and swaths of farmland. someone travelling the entire length of line 2 would be akin to (in terms of population spanned) going from the far stretches of the long island railroad to the far stretches of the PATH trains in new jersey.

many of shanghai's detractors are motivated by ignorance and/or tribal loyalty. unfortunately, they do not realize that its urban form is inherently more conducive to efficient rapid transit (for a city of its size) than what they're generally familiar with. the whole point is to maintain high densities throughout the city.
particlez está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2009, 01:20 PM   #1108
staff
囧!
 
staff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong | Singapore | Melbourne | Malmö | Copenhagen | Shanghai
Posts: 10,829
Likes (Received): 717

The Chinese version of Google Maps now shows the entire metro system (as well as every single bus stop) in Shanghai and various other cities in China apparently.

EDIT: Seems like it shows current traffic flows at all the major arteries too! Cool.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
staff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2009, 04:35 PM   #1109
FabriFlorence
Registered User
 
FabriFlorence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Firenze
Posts: 1,770
Likes (Received): 400

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Line 2 will be 62km long when the Airport extensions open next year...
62 Km!!! I suppose It will be the longest metro line in the word.
FabriFlorence no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2009, 06:18 PM   #1110
quashlo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,835
Likes (Received): 3215

Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
many of shanghai's detractors are motivated by ignorance and/or tribal loyalty. unfortunately, they do not realize that its urban form is inherently more conducive to efficient rapid transit (for a city of its size) than what they're generally familiar with. the whole point is to maintain high densities throughout the city.
I have heard much of what is being said by "ignorant" outsiders in this thread repeated by people who are from Shanghai and familiar with the system (and I'm not talking about drunkenmonkey888).
quashlo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2009, 10:01 PM   #1111
ode of bund
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Shanghai-Edmonton, Places where ETBs are molested.
Posts: 228
Likes (Received): 70

Line 2 has the highest congregation of white collar workers since this line travels through Lujiazui financial disctrict and terminates at Zhangjiang High Tech Park. Girls of extraordinary beauty are also more easily to be seen than any other subways.
ode of bund no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2009, 03:07 PM   #1112
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 1138

I have some questions –
1) From http://www.subways.net/china/shanghai.htm, & from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro I’ve read that line 3, 4, 6 & 8, and proposed line 7, 10 & 13 are underground light rail line, not metro line. Am I correct?

2) Any remaining of the now closed tram system is present in today's Shanghai?

3) I knew from www.lrta.org that Shanghai is thinking now to return its tramway. But has the construction started? If no, when it will start?
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2009, 03:16 PM   #1113
staff
囧!
 
staff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong | Singapore | Melbourne | Malmö | Copenhagen | Shanghai
Posts: 10,829
Likes (Received): 717

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
I have some questions –
1) From http://www.subways.net/china/shanghai.htm, & from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro I’ve read that line 3, 4, 6 & 8, and proposed line 7, 10 & 13 are underground light rail line, not metro line. Am I correct?
Nope, "light rail" is Chinese terminology for elevated rail.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
staff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2009, 09:23 PM   #1114
staff
囧!
 
staff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong | Singapore | Melbourne | Malmö | Copenhagen | Shanghai
Posts: 10,829
Likes (Received): 717

Tourist Metro passes on the way
__________________
staff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2009, 10:50 AM   #1115
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 1138

Quote:
Originally Posted by staff View Post
Nope, "light rail" is Chinese terminology for elevated rail.
So I can call all lines from 1 to 9 as metro, not light rail, alright?
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2009, 10:52 AM   #1116
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 1138

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_BigGeo View Post
I meant the master plan of 970+ km is too big to be practical. That's actually 2x the London Underground. There's nothing wrong with a large, massive system, but large systems are difficult to maintain. I've taken the NYC subway several times, and found it to be somewhat chaotic w/ a lot of glitches in the way it runs. I mean, if Shanghai needs like 1000km+ of rail, it's better to have 3-4 specialized networks with different kinds of service instead of a giant metro system. This also may lead to efficiency, since when transportation networks compete w/ each other, it leads to better services to attract riders.



I don't literally mean that the system is COMPLETELY underground. It's many of the NEW lines have too many km underground. Like Line 8, which is 30+km and completely underground. Or the eastern extension of Line 2, being mostly underground even though the area it passes isn't as dense as downtown. You can tell from pictures of the Maglev, since they're running parallel routes. I think that lines outside the circle (Line 4) should be above ground except for special cases, maybe.



According to Wikipedia, 3rd rail uses 700-750V, and overhead uses 1500V. 3rd rail is less prone to damage and accidents, easier to install and uses less electricity, which may help Shanghai being green a bit. Also, a metro isn't high speed rail, so it doesn't need to travel really fast. 3rd rail is capable of up to 80km/hr, which is adequate for a metro line.
1) Making elevated lines are much less costly than underground lines, but elevated lines sometimes damages scenic beauty of the city. Whereas although underground lines are costliest, but there are no question for damaging scenic beauty. Side by side, anybody con enjoy a bird’s eye view of the city from an elevated metro, whereas from underground metro, there is nothing to see mostly than dark tunnel.
2) Although 3rd rail is less prone to damage and accidents, easier to install and uses less electricity, anybody who wants to suicide can easily jump on track and can touch the 3rd rail to go very fast to heaven / hell. Whereas this is not possible for overhead wire.
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2009, 10:55 AM   #1117
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 1138

Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
FINALLY!! I have been saying that since time immemorial. Four track lines with express trains in the middle and local trains on the outside just like NYC's subway, no?

Shanghai's metro is much too cumbersome and large to run effectively. It wouldve been better had it been broken down ie: 500 km suburban rail, 350 km conventional subway, and 120 km light rail to fill in the gaps. Also comes out to 970 km but would make things far more efficient
Are they thinking suburban rail & light rail also metro? It is a wrong conception. Metro is actually conventional subways. Suburban rails has lower quality stocks and connects city with its suburbs, and light rail is a vehicle which is smaller than metro but larger than tram.
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2009, 10:56 AM   #1118
Ashis Mitra
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 1138

The photo of thread No. 40 brightly shows that China is still the highest populated country of the world. We can’t even imagine such crowd in subway stations of Kolkata or Delhi.
Ashis Mitra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2009, 10:09 PM   #1119
staff
囧!
 
staff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong | Singapore | Melbourne | Malmö | Copenhagen | Shanghai
Posts: 10,829
Likes (Received): 717

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
So I can call all lines from 1 to 9 as metro, not light rail, alright?
Yes, this is correct. All lines that go under the "Shanghai Metro" brand are metro.
__________________
staff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2009, 01:00 AM   #1120
staff
囧!
 
staff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong | Singapore | Melbourne | Malmö | Copenhagen | Shanghai
Posts: 10,829
Likes (Received): 717

Some interesting info in this article. By 2012 there will be around 350 stations in the Shanghai Metro, with a route length of around 500km. Beyond 2012, more than 300km further routes are planned - ie. a total of over 800km planned.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/arti...cle_393366.htm
Quote:
Downtown Metro trips to get quicker

By Dong Zhen | 2009-3-7 | NEWSPAPER EDITION

METRO trips in the downtown area will take no longer than 25 minutes by 2012, by which time the subway network will comprise 13 lines, an official said yesterday.

There will be a Metro station every 900 meters in urban Shanghai by 2012 and it's estimated that any downtown commuter will take only 45 minutes -- allowing 20 minutes to reach the station and 25 minutes for the Metro journey, Ying Minghong, Chairman of the Board of Shanghai Shentong Metro Co Ltd, said yesterday at the National People's Congress in Beijing.

By 2012, Metro services will have more interchange points and be able to get passengers to all the major downtown business and commercial hubs more efficiently.

The government has promised to extend Metro lines deep into the city's fringes. Seven budget-housing complexes being built on the city's fringes will have Metro stations close by.

Both the city's airports are expected to be directly connected to Metro Line 2 in time for next year's World Expo.

A tunneling machine digging the western extension of Line 2 reached the site of the Hongqiao Integrated Traffic Hub earlier this week. The hub will be used by buses, Metros and high-speed rail lines, and is connected to Hongqiao Airport.

Ying said construction is also going smoothly on the Line 2 extension to Pudong International Airport.

Ying said they have already started system testing on Line 7, the second phase of lines 8 and 9 and the first phase of Line 11.

Ying said these new lines will begin services before the end of this year as had been planned.

The current eight Metro lines operating in Shanghai cover 234 kilometers and include 162 stations. By 2012 there will be nearly 350 stations, running a 500-kilometer route.

However, this won't be the end of Shanghai's Metro extensions.

According to a proposal submitted by the local urban planner to the central government, the city will build a further 300 kilometers of Metro lines beginning 2012.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
staff no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
metro, shanghai, tram

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium