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Old August 19th, 2009, 07:11 AM   #1261
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I don't have the software for it, and i don't use pin yin to type. Sorry
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Old August 19th, 2009, 07:20 AM   #1262
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Fair enough.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 10:51 AM   #1263
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Should this thread perhaps be renamed to "Shanghai Public Transportation Thread"?


http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/arti...cle_411106.htm
Quote:
After 30 years, trams ready to roll

By Liang Yiwen | 2009-8-19 | NEWSPAPER EDITION

TRAMS in Pudong's Zhangjiang High-tech Park are due to begin trial passenger runs ahead of National Day on October 1, officials said yesterday.

Public trams have not been in Shanghai for 30 years.

A ticket on the air-conditioned trams will cost 2 yuan (29 US cents), the same as for most commuter buses.

Passengers will also enjoy the discounts for transferring between trams and other means of public transport.

The Shanghai Public Transportation Card can be used on the service once the line is open for business, officials said.

The 10-kilometer route will link Zhangjiang High-tech Park Metro Station on Line 2 to Jinqiu Road in Zhangjiang Semiconductor Industry Park.

There are 15 stops, the distance between each station averages 600 meters and trams will arrive at intervals of between six and eight minutes.

The budget for the project is about 600 million yuan.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 11:10 AM   #1264
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I like this tram idea, I have never been out to ZJGK but the trams look nice in pictures. They should have this kind of thing more in the less dense developments in the near suburbs.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 12:54 PM   #1265
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A lot people regard the tram scheme as being a bit gimmicky. The Lohr vehicles are more guided trolleybuses than true trams, and are not at all good value for money. The authorities are slowly killing off the conventional trolleybus network for 'visual' pollution, yet 'tram' and 'foreign product/technology' suddenly makes this 'problem' disappear.

Considering this route just goes around different parts of the science park and does not serve many high density housing areas, I doubt this route will be well patronised throughout the day (judging by similar bus routes in operation now). The eastern extension of Metro Line 2 is close to opening, so there will be even less demand for the tram route in the future.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 01:00 PM   #1266
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It's basically a test line. I guess they will evaluate it and decide whether to go ahead and build more such lines or try another technology within a few years.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 05:54 PM   #1267
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I think thats because the overhead power lines look bad. East of Tibet road there are a little too many overhead power lines, I can see why the gvt wants to cut down on that, its not as good looking. Especially with the Expo coming up, Shanghai is looking extremely nice, even my house (built in 1928) is getting a paint job now.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 06:35 PM   #1268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severiano View Post
I think thats because the overhead power lines look bad. East of Tibet road there are a little too many overhead power lines, I can see why the gvt wants to cut down on that, its not as good looking. Especially with the Expo coming up, Shanghai is looking extremely nice, even my house (built in 1928) is getting a paint job now.
The thing is it is extremely unfair to point the finger of blame at trolleybus wires. In actual fact they are a good addition to the skyline (if managed properly, and poles integrated with lamp-posts etc). Communication lines are by far the worst culprits.

Even if trolleybus wires are not agreeable to some, to me it's a very small price to pay for some peace and quiet and absence of exhaust fumes.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #1269
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Emphatically agreed. The Translohr vehicles have the "bad-looking" overhead wires just as well, cannot move around obstacles because of guide rails and have rail grooves that trap bicycles - yet they do not have the compatibility of system of normal trams with two steel rails, nor the low rolling friction.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 01:39 AM   #1270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Try getting into London from the home counties on any of the minor roads - trust me you'll lose the will to live!

The only exceptions I can think of are Epping, Potter's Bar, Radlett (and perhaps St. Albans), Rickmansworth, Woking and Biggin hill that can get into London semi-easily on a red or yellow road. All of them bar Biggin Hill have convenient and frequent rail services into London.

Roads are classified for a reason - different roads serve different purposes. Local roads are called local roads because they are local roads! They carry traffic of an entirely different nature so it is not fair to include them in the equation. Go on Google maps and see exactly how many major arteries there actually are - not that many you'll find!

The whole point about this debate is whether commuter rail is necessary and whether London's system is a good example. One 8-car train carries about 500 people (without crush-loading), and that's about 400 cars. so one railway line is as significant as quite a few roads.
I just want to point out that just compare rail and trunk roads is unfair.

You are changing the point of debate. Commuter rail is a reality both in London and SH. There is no point to debate if they are necessary to be built. The point is how!
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Old August 20th, 2009, 01:48 AM   #1271
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Translohr is not trolleybus. It is a rail car on rubber tyre. Trolleybus has a automobile frame. The capacities and operation of the two are completely different.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:57 PM   #1272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_sh View Post
I just want to point out that just compare rail and trunk roads is unfair.
Alas ... you still seem unable to grasp the idea that different roads cater for different purposes. Trunk roads have rail have essentially the same target market, therefore it IS fair to make such comparisons. But anyhow...

Quote:
You are changing the point of debate. Commuter rail is a reality both in London and SH. There is no point to debate if they are necessary to be built.
I'm glad we are settle on that.

Quote:
The point is how!
Quite. We must look towards universal coverage, and not just stop at major towns of Jiading, Songjiang, Huinan and the like, but integrate smaller towns such as Fengcheng, Zhujing, Chongu, and towns outside the boundary, like Jiashan, Taicang, Liuhe.

It is right for towns to preserve a degree of independence, or even share some city-level activities, that's why it's crucial that these towns are connected (otherwise they are not indepent, but isolated, subtle but important difference), and more importantly, that the stations are in the town centre, so it can attract reverse flow.

Shanghai's influence WILL extend beyond the administrative boundary, that's why the importance of admistrative boundaries will have to decrease. It must be easy for Metro lines to extend outside of the boundary and for national rail to cater for commuters.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 01:15 PM   #1273
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Hey everyone! I just took some pictures from Line 8. It seems now that in Line 8 they have posted the new subway map. I think this is how the subway will look from 2010 to 2012. All of the new lines and stations will be open before the Expo, and some of them will be open before the end of 2009.

New Map:



New Map closeup of the city centre:



What do you think of the huge station signs in Line 8? I really like them!
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 10:49 AM   #1274
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the new map looks so nice.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 05:42 PM   #1275
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I love the big character names at Line 8 stations - I wish the other lines had them too - it makes station identification a snap.

The new map is awesome. I can spend lots of time just staring at it. One question I had, looking at it now, though, is why is there no interchange between line 7 and 10. It looks from the map like they could have had a 3 line interchange between 1, 7, and 10 at Changshu Road, but instead they went with line 7 interchanging with line 1 at Changshu and line 10 interchanging with line 1 at Shanxi. Anybody know why they did this?
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 07:50 PM   #1276
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There is probably some financial reasons behind the decision. The Changshu/Huaihai intersection is pretty narrow, plus there is very little foot traffic in that area. It's a mistake but it only makes the plane a little less AWESOME. The distance according to Google Earth, from Shanxi south road and Shanghai Library is about 1 mile or 1.65km. Which is about the same as the distance from Renmin Guangchang and Huang pi South Road. Its pretty far if you are in a hurry, but not that far if you are a tourist walking through the French area. Just looking at this map, its hard to see a place in the central urban core that will be far from a subway station. Plus by 2012, line 11 and 13 will be further extended into the city centre.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 09:34 PM   #1277
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wow it covers every sqkm of the city
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Old August 24th, 2009, 07:50 PM   #1278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
I love the big character names at Line 8 stations - I wish the other lines had them too - it makes station identification a snap.

The new map is awesome. I can spend lots of time just staring at it. One question I had, looking at it now, though, is why is there no interchange between line 7 and 10. It looks from the map like they could have had a 3 line interchange between 1, 7, and 10 at Changshu Road, but instead they went with line 7 interchanging with line 1 at Changshu and line 10 interchanging with line 1 at Shanxi. Anybody know why they did this?
There was orginally a plan for three-line transfer. As the area is a historical villa quarter and a three-line transfer will require a further expansion of the station and demolition of the surrounding villas, so the plan was scratched.

Anyway, this is an expensive villa quarter and the demand for public transport is not huge.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 10:07 PM   #1279
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Well in that case I can't blame them. The historical villas are more important than having a three line transfer. It is worth the inconvenience.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 04:27 AM   #1280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_sh View Post
There was orginally a plan for three-line transfer. As the area is a historical villa quarter and a three-line transfer will require a further expansion of the station and demolition of the surrounding villas, so the plan was scratched.

Anyway, this is an expensive villa quarter and the demand for public transport is not huge.
Ah, that sounds logical. Thanks for that.
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