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Old April 11th, 2010, 05:27 AM   #1541
Abhishek901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Hmm, if I add up all the lenghts shown in that table I get 447,9km, not 424,7... is it my calculator or what?

I guess it's worth waiting for some official data.
Total length does not includes Maglev line, which explains the difference. And I think the total including it should be 457 instead of 447. So, anyways, it is your calculator
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Old April 11th, 2010, 05:34 AM   #1542
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Oh yeah, then I get 414.9km. Still not 424.7km... and not 400km as stated in Shanghai Metro website here although it doesn't precisely clarify if it only passed the 400km milestone or if this is the precise number.

And how doesn't it matter. Of course it does! Numbers is what we love!
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Old April 11th, 2010, 07:38 AM   #1543
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One brand new subway and one extension commenced revenue operation on the eve of Shanghai Expo 2010. On April 8th, the 26km extension to PVG airport was added on Line 2. At 64km overall distance and linking two major airports, PVG and SHA, Line 2 is now the longest subway in Shanghai. However Line 2 is currently being operated with two different types of train sets, the 8 car trains operate from SHA, through downtown Shanghai, Lujiazui Financial district, Longyang Road Meglev Station, and terminates at Guanglan Road. Passengers who wish to continue the journey east toward PVG must do a cross platform transfer to 4 car trains at Guanglan Road. The good news is that unlike other subway hub stations where transfers require going up the escalator, walking long distance across a hallway, then walking down the escalator to reach the platform of another subway, this is just a simple cross platform transfer. All subway stations between Guanglan Road and PVG are built to accomodate 8 car trains for future expansion.

On April 10th, the long anticipated new subway, the 36km Line 10 also commenced service. This subway is regarded as a platinum route as it runs from northeast to westend linking densely populated residential communities, university campuses, shopping streets, business centers, and tourist attractions. The line eventually branches off into two spurs near Shanghai Zoo, the west end of the city, one going to the residential neighborhood of Hanghua, to other going to SHA airport to join line 2, however, only the branch going to Hanghua is open today.

The opening of Line 10 has brought the overall length of Shanghai's subway network to 420km, surpassing most other subway networks in the world. Coincidentally, April 10th is the 15th anniversary of the opening of Shanghai's first subway. On April 10th 1995, the 16km phase I of subway Line 1 began trial operation. The construction of Line 1 took 5 years, thus retroactively from the beginning of the construction of Line 1 in 1990, to the opening of Line 10 in 2010, within two decades, Shanghai's subway network has grown from NOTHING to 420km! Before the Expo 2010 opens on May 1st, one more subway, Line13 which is the Expo shuttle, will begin revenue operation in the next few days.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 05:01 PM   #1544
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The opening of Line 10 has brought the overall length of Shanghai's subway network to 420km, surpassing most other subway networks in the world.
Most or All ?
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Old April 11th, 2010, 05:16 PM   #1545
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All.
I guess they just decided no to boast about it too much.

Anyway, I wonder when Shanghai is going to take the title of the largest system in terms of daily passenger numbers? Currently it should be about number 5 by this measure (after Tokyo, Moscow, Seoul and NYC).
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Old April 11th, 2010, 05:20 PM   #1546
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Currently Shanghai's averaged daily ridership is 3.6 million, Beijing's averaged daily ridership is 5 million. So still some time to go
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Old April 11th, 2010, 05:24 PM   #1547
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In a Xinhua article it says the daily ridership of Shanghai Subway is 4.78 million. (i.,e. the numebr of tickets sold... or is it not the correct figure for passengers?)
Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201...c_13245720.htm

Is there any source on Beijing daily passenger figures?
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Old April 11th, 2010, 05:27 PM   #1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
Most or All ?

I wouldn't use the word "all", but most is certainly appropriate.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post

In a Xinhua article it says the daily ridership of Shanghai Subway is 4.78 million.

Is there any source on Beijing daily passenger figures?
Nice! That's very close then.

There is only Chinese source for Beijing

http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2...t_12797439.htm
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Old April 11th, 2010, 06:14 PM   #1550
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Xinhua is the least trust worthy media source in China.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 06:29 PM   #1551
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@Scion
Interesting. 5 million in Beijing is much more than I though.

@ode of bund
Why? Are you saying they just made it up of what?
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Old April 11th, 2010, 06:51 PM   #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ode of bund View Post
I wouldn't use the word "all", but most is certainly appropriate.
Why ? The longest metro till few days back was London Underground with a length of 400 km. So that makes Shanghai metro larger than all. Isn't it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion View Post
Currently Shanghai's averaged daily ridership is 3.6 million, Beijing's averaged daily ridership is 5 million. So still some time to go
This ridership figure is an average for last year. And at that time, the length of metro was not that much. So for an expanding system, we should use the most recent daily figure.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 07:18 PM   #1553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post


This ridership figure is an average for last year. And at that time, the length of metro was not that much. So for an expanding system, we should use the most recent daily figure.
Precisely. Considering the incredible speed at which Shanghai (and other cities in China) are expanding their metro systems, it makes more sense to look at average daily stats from the previous month (if they are available, of course) than the entire year.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 08:38 PM   #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Hmm, if I add up all the lenghts shown in that table I get 447,9km, not 424,7... is it my calculator or what?

I guess it's worth waiting for some official data.
OK I know how this number of 424.7km is reached now. I added all the mileage of each individual subway together which came up to a total of 414.9km, still 9.8km short of 424.7km. This 9.8km is the current total mileage of Zhangjiang Translohr tram. The 424.7km total mileage did not include the mileage of Meglev.

However 424.7km is still incorrect since Line 3 and Line 4 shares 11.9 km of track, and this 11.9km duplicate mileage must be excluded from the calculation. Therefore if we just take into account of all subways, excluding the duplicate, excluding the Translohr, excluding the Meglev, the exact mileage of all SUBWAYS should be 424.7-9.8-11.9=403km.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 09:19 PM   #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ode of bund View Post
OK I know how this number of 424.7km is reached now. I added all the mileage of each individual subway together which came up to a total of 414.9km, still 9.8km short of 424.7km. This 9.8km is the current total mileage of Zhangjiang Translohr tram. The 424.7km total mileage did not include the mileage of Meglev.

However 424.7km is still incorrect since Line 3 and Line 4 shares 11.9 km of track, and this 11.9km duplicate mileage must be excluded from the calculation. Therefore if we just take into account of all subways, excluding the duplicate, excluding the Translohr, excluding the Meglev, the exact mileage of all SUBWAYS should be 424.7-9.8-11.9=403km.
Makes sense. However, what about London and other systems in terms of their length? It is usually cited as "route length" even though we know that some lines (e.g. in London it is the case with Circle/District and some other lines) sharing the same tracks? I wonder if they count the length of actual track or route (the latter would be much longer)?
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Old April 11th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #1556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Makes sense. However, what about London and other systems in terms of their length? It is usually cited as "route length" even though we know that some lines (e.g. in London it is the case with Circle/District and some other lines) sharing the same tracks? I wonder if they count the length of actual track or route (the latter would be much longer)?
I can't speak for London but I know that the NYC subway's 368 km does not include lines that share the same track. It has 23 train lines but most of the time, more than 1 line shares the track. In fact, the 7 train and the L train are the only two lines that do not share any part of their route with another line
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Old April 11th, 2010, 09:58 PM   #1557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ode of bund View Post
OK I know how this number of 424.7km is reached now. I added all the mileage of each individual subway together which came up to a total of 414.9km, still 9.8km short of 424.7km. This 9.8km is the current total mileage of Zhangjiang Translohr tram. The 424.7km total mileage did not include the mileage of Meglev.

However 424.7km is still incorrect since Line 3 and Line 4 shares 11.9 km of track, and this 11.9km duplicate mileage must be excluded from the calculation. Therefore if we just take into account of all subways, excluding the duplicate, excluding the Translohr, excluding the Meglev, the exact mileage of all SUBWAYS should be 424.7-9.8-11.9=403km.
Though tram should not be included but I think maglev should be included. It is a metro, though as faster one. Anyways, even with 403 km, Shanghai has pipped London.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Makes sense. However, what about London and other systems in terms of their length? It is usually cited as "route length" even though we know that some lines (e.g. in London it is the case with Circle/District and some other lines) sharing the same tracks? I wonder if they count the length of actual track or route (the latter would be much longer)?
London excludes the common length of lines for calculations. Total length of all individual lines in London is about 450 km but the length of the system is reported as 400 km. That means they do not include common sections. I had confirmed it with Tubeman.

Similarly NY subway says that its route length is 1047 km and its line length is 369 km.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #1558
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Thanks, it is much clearer now.

All in all it seems Shanghai is about to stay the largest metro system for a very long time to come... perhaps for the rest of our lifetimes at the very least.

Now the question is when Shanghai will top in terms of passenger numbers and when Beijing will come 2nd in terms of route length and, possibly, second in terms of passenger numbers as well.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #1559
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Now the question is when Shanghai will top in terms of passenger numbers and when Beijing will come 2nd in terms of route length and, possibly, second in terms of passenger numbers as well.
I think within few years, Shanghai may overtake Tokyo to become busiest subway but it may not remain busiest for long time as there are other big metros under construction in China and India.

Of those, I think only Beijing and Delhi metro can compete with Shanghai metro in terms of passenger numbers. Already Beijing has more passengers with less route length. Also Delhi metro will carry more than 10 million people everyday by 2020, which is much higher than Tokyo's figure and it could be the busiest subway of the world by 2020 as the population of Delhi's metropolitan area is more than Shanghai and still increasing at a fast pace.

Beijing metro will soon become second longest in the world as it plans to built 561 km by 2015, so I guess it will cross 400 km mark by 2012-2013. Though I can't say whether Beijing subway will be among top 3-4 even after 10 years from now.
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Old April 12th, 2010, 12:59 AM   #1560
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I found discrepencies between the numbers given on Wiki and the numbers on Urbanrail.net, for example

Wiki Urbanrail
Line 1 36.4 38.1
Line 2 63.8 64 (this is perhaps due to rounding)
Line 3 40.3 40.3
Line 4 33.7 34.2
Line 5 17.2 17.2
Line 6 31.1 31.5
Line 7 34.4 no data
Line 8 37.4 37.5
Line 9 45.8 47 (Wiki did not include the latest extension from Century Avenue to Central Yanggao Road)
Line 10 29.6 29.6
Line 11 45.8 46 (perhaps due to rounding)

Therefore adding all individual lines together and subtract 11.9 duplicate on Lines 3/4, I get 407.9km.

Last edited by ode of bund; April 12th, 2010 at 01:08 AM.
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