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Old April 20th, 2010, 04:15 AM   #1641
drunkenmunkey888
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I think they finally settled with standard loading gauge stock 3m wide.
But its only 6 cars long right? Do they have stations long enough for 8 cars? I feel like Line 10 definitely needs 8 cars, it goes through some of the busiest stations in Shanghai...
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Old April 20th, 2010, 10:04 AM   #1642
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Ok well here's my best effort to distinguish metro rail from suburban rail.

Suburban rail:
- terminates at a centre centre terminus
- relatively low frequencies with a timetable

Metro rail:
- runs right through the city (often underground, especially in the centre)
- high frequencies with a service interval rather than timetable


I accept there is a certain woolliness to all this. For instance not all of Thameslink's 225 km should be considered metro rail. Some of the far flung branches have more in common with suburban rail. Ditto the extremities of Paris's RER network. However the core trunk lines that have frequent services most certainly are metro rail, and it's a distortion of reality to exclude or ignore such lines when making comparisons of metro networks in different cities.
Still why Tokyo's Yamanote line does not considered to be the metro?
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Old April 20th, 2010, 01:18 PM   #1643
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But its only 6 cars long right? Do they have stations long enough for 8 cars? I feel like Line 10 definitely needs 8 cars, it goes through some of the busiest stations in Shanghai...
Yes line 10 can only handle 6-car trains, which considering the number of centres it passes through (Nanjing Road, Yu Garden, Xintiandi) is disappointing. Even so capacity on line 10 is like heaven compared with line 8, which goes through much bigger and denser residential areas.
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Old April 20th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #1644
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Yes line 10 can only handle 6-car trains, which considering the number of centres it passes through (Nanjing Road, Yu Garden, Xintiandi) is disappointing. Even so capacity on line 10 is like heaven compared with line 8, which goes through much bigger and denser residential areas.
This is really disappointing. Doesn't Shanghai metro consistently suffer from overcapacity issues? Like Line 6 or Line 8? I mean why the **** did they scrap the 3.2m rolling stock?!

I'm hearing about how they're now having buses that run parallel to the metro to relieve congestion... stupidest idea ever, that just defeats the purpose of even building a metro in the first place. If anything, build parallel or double decker tracks (with possibly express service?) to relieve congestion...
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Old April 20th, 2010, 07:05 PM   #1645
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I'm hearing about how they're now having buses that run parallel to the metro to relieve congestion... stupidest idea ever, that just defeats the purpose of even building a metro in the first place. If anything, build parallel or double decker tracks (with possibly express service?) to relieve congestion...
Are you sure ? That thing defeats the purpose of the metro. Is that line operating at its maximum capacity (i.e, maximum length of trains and maximum frequency) ? I think there are other alternatives like lengthening of stations and improvement in signalling for increasing capacity of the line, besides building another parallel line few km apart.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 01:11 AM   #1646
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The fact that lines 6 and 8 have been a sham is an open secret. Stations on the Line 8 like Quyang Estate are experiencing long-term station closures in the morning peaks because the trains are so full having these stations open will lead to serious safety problems. Hopefully overcrowding on Line 8 will be relieved somewhat when Line 10 goes into full operation. As for the Line 10 - I don't envisage to be that busy - although it goes through many city centre top locations, it doesn't go through any substancially large or dense residential areas.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 01:34 AM   #1647
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The fact that lines 6 and 8 have been a sham is an open secret. Stations on the Line 8 like Quyang Estate are experiencing long-term station closures in the morning peaks because the trains are so full having these stations open will lead to serious safety problems. Hopefully overcrowding on Line 8 will be relieved somewhat when Line 10 goes into full operation. As for the Line 10 - I don't envisage to be that busy - although it goes through many city centre top locations, it doesn't go through any substancially large or dense residential areas.
Dig parallel tracks directly beneath the current Line 8 with 3 or 3.2m wide rolling stock and have it make express stops. That's what they did with the Lexington Avenue Line in NYC, no? The express trains are directly beneath the local trains from Grand Central Station into Harlem
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Old April 21st, 2010, 02:46 PM   #1648
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Dig parallel tracks directly beneath the current Line 8 with 3 or 3.2m wide rolling stock and have it make express stops. That's what they did with the Lexington Avenue Line in NYC, no? The express trains are directly beneath the local trains from Grand Central Station into Harlem
That'd be the ideal solution, but given Shanghai's geology such a project would be prohibitively expensive. Stations have to be contructed using cut-and-cover methods and there probably isn't the appetite for newly resored streetscapes to be cut open yet again ... It's a catch 22 really.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 03:15 PM   #1649
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Dig parallel tracks directly beneath the current Line 8 with 3 or 3.2m wide rolling stock and have it make express stops. That's what they did with the Lexington Avenue Line in NYC, no? The express trains are directly beneath the local trains from Grand Central Station into Harlem
Rather have a parallel line few km from it. Not only the crowd will get divided into two lines but also with the opening of new line, many more people will get metro closer to them.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 08:37 PM   #1650
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Another metro map;

image hosted on flickr
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Old April 24th, 2010, 06:55 PM   #1651
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Line 2 airport extension;

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Old April 25th, 2010, 04:39 AM   #1652
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I just checked out the airport extension yesterday when going to visit a friend in Chuansha. It currently runs only 4-car trains, but you can see that they've roughed in the stations to be able to handle 8-car trains in the future, so the transfer at Guanglan Road is clearly only a temporary thing until they need the extra capacity (I'd guess 3-4 years from now). But it sure is convenient to be able to take the subway out that way now.
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Old April 28th, 2010, 01:05 AM   #1653
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Rather have a parallel line few km from it. Not only the crowd will get divided into two lines but also with the opening of new line, many more people will get metro closer to them.
Another way is to close the line and redo it all the stations and tunnels. Is that way even possible?
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Old April 28th, 2010, 01:08 AM   #1654
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Yes line 10 can only handle 6-car trains, which considering the number of centres it passes through (Nanjing Road, Yu Garden, Xintiandi) is disappointing. Even so capacity on line 10 is like heaven compared with line 8, which goes through much bigger and denser residential areas.
Places like Yuyuan and Xintiandi are mainly tourism related traffic.
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Old April 28th, 2010, 03:40 AM   #1655
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Another way is to close the line and redo it all the stations and tunnels. Is that way even possible?
Tunnels need not be redone. It is only the train length which needs to be increased. Train width/height will remain same. So only station length needs to be increased. And if that can be done, nothing better than that.
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Old April 28th, 2010, 01:38 PM   #1656
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Increasing station length can be a costly procedure, especially if the stations are deep. Other solutions which do not require extra construction might be increasing train frequency by increasing the acceleration and deceleration capacity of trains. They did the same in Paris from the 1960's onwards with the rubber tyred trains.
Another way to increase capacity might be to optimize passenger flows: increase the number of doors per train and the door width, so passengers can board and disembark more easily. Increase passenger throughput through stations, so people can get in and out faster.
All of these tactics should be tried before extra construction is undertaken.
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Old April 28th, 2010, 04:48 PM   #1657
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Eh rubber-tired trains use concrete tracks so that would necessitate replacing all the steel rails with concrete beds...

Most Shanghai metro trains have 5 doors per car on each side... most have 4 and some like the Washington metro have only 3 even though their train carriages are the same length as Shanghai metro's (23m long)

So yeah looks like extra construction it is
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Old April 29th, 2010, 01:27 AM   #1658
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Rubber tyred trains are not needed for their acceleration/deceleration capabilities anymore. Modern steel-wheeled trains can match rubber-tyred trains these days. That wasn't the case in the sixties.

A way of increasing passenger throughput would be to increase frequency. AFAIK, many Shanghai lines run at a rather low frequency compared to other city's metros.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 10:12 PM   #1659
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Line 8 was struggling to cope with pressures of large crowds from the Expo - two stations serving the site had to close yesterday (April 30th):

http://www.ditiezu.com/thread-93380-1-1.html
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Old April 30th, 2010, 11:48 PM   #1660
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Wasn't line 13 supposed to be opened as a short stretch through the Expo Area? Has that line opened yet?
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