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Old October 23rd, 2010, 05:46 PM   #1821
Falubaz
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Is it really important how yu count? No matter what methods are used, the growing number of users says, metro is becoming more and more significant in the transportation in Shanghai. That's good.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 07:34 PM   #1822
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If you know the actual number of users, you can understand what proportion of total trips being made in Shanghai are registered in metro, how is the system faring with respect to cost incurred per passenger, how popular is Shanghai metro in relation to other metros worldwide and so on.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 05:02 PM   #1823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
Line 10 extension to Hongqiao airport will open next week,
On which day?
What shall be faster to reach from Hongqiao - Jiangwan New Town or Hangzhou?
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Old October 25th, 2010, 06:01 AM   #1824
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It's from local news, I don't have the specific date though.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #1825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
On which day?
What shall be faster to reach from Hongqiao - Jiangwan New Town or Hangzhou?
I'd imagine that it'd be faster to reach Hangzhou, given that it's only a 40-45 minute ride from Hongqiao. Line 10 will probably take at least 50 minutes from Hongqiao to Jiangwan.

I presume that when the branch line opens Line 10 will go to full operating hours (i.e. ~5.30am to ~11pm).
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Old October 26th, 2010, 02:02 AM   #1826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
So that means 7.5 million is actual number of users.

There was a discussion in some thread which I don't remember (maybe this thread itself), where somebody said that total no. is arrived at after adding all the users in individual lines which leads to duplication. I suggested that a person passes only twice through fare collection gates (entry and exit), so how is it possible to know a particular person used how many lines and what combination of lines. Then somebody suggested that it is assumed that a person traveling from A to B will take the shortest route possible and it is concluded that the person used X, Y and Z lines during his journey. That's how the passengers in individual lines are calculated.

Is that right or wrong ?
This is actually quite interesting, they have the individual statistics for each line of Shanghai metro. They must have done what you have said, otherwise they would not have known which line you have taken if you go in a check-in of a station of more than two lines.

So yea i think that data was an aggregation of total amount of riders each and every line received, ie. you will be counted as two riders in the sum if you interchange once. However you can still obtain the actual amount of people that have been riding the metro from the total figure minus the numbers of interchange.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #1827
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But then the question is how they calculate the number of users in individual lines since a passenger does not passes through the fare collection gates while interchanging lines ?

A person who works with metro can best answer it IMO.

I think they may also calculate the ridership of individual lines by just counting the number of passengers entering the system through that line, since entry (or exit) is the only time where your data can be recorded. So only the first users of the lines (that is the line through which you start your journey) may be counted and those who switch over may remain unaccounted thereafter because of unavailability of data. If that's the case, then the total number of pax in the system is simple addition of the users of individual lines.

It has got a bit complex
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Old October 27th, 2010, 05:50 AM   #1828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post

I think they may also calculate the ridership of individual lines by just counting the number of passengers entering the system through that line...
I think this is the most logical and simplest one.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 11:03 AM   #1829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
But then the question is how they calculate the number of users in individual lines since a passenger does not passes through the fare collection gates while interchanging lines ?

A person who works with metro can best answer it IMO.

I think they may also calculate the ridership of individual lines by just counting the number of passengers entering the system through that line, since entry (or exit) is the only time where your data can be recorded. So only the first users of the lines (that is the line through which you start your journey) may be counted and those who switch over may remain unaccounted thereafter because of unavailability of data. If that's the case, then the total number of pax in the system is simple addition of the users of individual lines.

It has got a bit complex
I would say it is assumed, that you are taking the shortest transition. That is also how they are charging the fares.

For example they line 4, the circular line, say it has 15 stops in total. If your actual journey is only 2 stops, but you take the opposite direction and ending up riding 13 stops you will still be charged by the amount of 2 stops. Very few people are likely to do that though..
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Old October 27th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #1830
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Line patronage is indeed calculated on the basis of the 'shortest route'. If the shortest route between A and B is through lines 1 4 and 2 then each of these lines get a count. Of course the passengers may choose whatever actual route they like.

The total number of journeys is calculated by subtracting the number of changes from the total count.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 06:50 PM   #1831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Line patronage is indeed calculated on the basis of the 'shortest route'. If the shortest route between A and B is through lines 1 4 and 2 then each of these lines get a count. Of course the passengers may choose whatever actual route they like.

The total number of journeys is calculated by subtracting the number of changes from the total count.
As per the post below, the total of all individual lines is 7.548 m which is also said to be the final ridership. Below it is mentioned that interchange = 2.742 m. So is the number of actual riders 7.548 - 2.742 = approx 4.8 m ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragel View Post
final number of ridership on 22nd

Total : 7.548 m

Line 1: 1.34 m
Line 2: 1.35 m
Line 3: 0.57 m
Line 4: 0.89 m *
Line 5: 0.14 m
Line 6: 0.30 m *
Line 7: 0.71 m *
Line 8: 0.87 m *
Line 9: 0.58 m *
Line 10:0.34 m
Line 11:0.21 m
Line 13:0.24 m

Interchange: 2.742 m

*: new record for individual line
report
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Old October 27th, 2010, 07:46 PM   #1832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
As per the post below, the total of all individual lines is 7.548 m which is also said to be the final ridership. Below it is mentioned that interchange = 2.742 m. So is the number of actual riders 7.548 - 2.742 = approx 4.8 m ?
Think that's right yeah.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 07:53 PM   #1833
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Any idea how other cities do it ?
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Old October 27th, 2010, 08:19 PM   #1834
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What you just did is exactly the way I calculated it here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=747

Posting the 7.548 million as the network ridership is misleading. They should probably just use total daily journeys, which is what most other systems use.

Breaking it out by line, however, is useful, though... Accepting, of course, that there will be some room for error, since there is no way to tell which route option passengers actually choose. However, this is an error common to virtually all multiple-line rail systems.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #1835
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Thanks for clearing the doubt.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 09:32 PM   #1836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
What you just did is exactly the way I calculated it here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=747

Posting the 7.548 million as the network ridership is misleading. They should probably just use total daily journeys, which is what most other systems use.
Since I posted some of these numbers from news reports, maybe it is misleading because I use the wrong translation. They do have two terminology "网络客运量"(literally means network passenger volume, and it is a sum of network total journeys+transfer/interchange) and "网络出行量"(network total journeys). I translate the first terminology to 'ridership', sorry if this caused any confusion. I am not sure how other Chinese cities calculate their ridership, so I am not going to speculate without any sources.

Quote:
Breaking it out by line, however, is useful, though... Accepting, of course, that there will be some room for error, since there is no way to tell which route option passengers actually choose. However, this is an error common to virtually all multiple-line rail systems.
It is very useful to do this way for a young system like Shanghai metro since the whole system is still undergoing serious expansion and to be at least doubled in a decade. The ridership by each line could give very informative instructions about how to plan future lines and adding more trains for certain lines.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 10:57 PM   #1837
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My post wasn't really a criticism of your translation, just a question as to why they even need to report that number. They clearly know how many journeys people take based on the number of entries at each station, but they choose to report a number that has no useful value. The number of passengers who change lines is of at least some value, as it gives an idea of what fraction of the passengers take more than one train, but a "daily ridership" number that simply sums the ridership on each line is useless.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 11:52 PM   #1838
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Why does that have no useful value knowing the amount of ridership to each line? Is it of any use to say the total journey taken is 1m, when actually all these 1m people were riding line1, but none were riding line2, 3, 4 etc?

If they do not do a sum on each line how would they know which line is reaching its max capacity, which line they need to increase the frequency of the train or expand the number of carriages per train?

From the perspective of a local reader, it is also interesting to know the popularity of each individual line and their percentage increase in ridership, and how the new lines are handling their jobs. Its good to see that line 1 and 2 are still leading the pack.

In the end, taking a x-line-interchanging journey, you will take one more person's space in x number of different trains, adding to the overall crowdedness of x individual lines. So it makes total sense to sum up the total ridership of each individual line.
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Last edited by kix111; October 28th, 2010 at 12:03 AM.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 12:23 AM   #1839
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I am talking about the 7.548 million.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 07:26 PM   #1840
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Also one very important measure would be passenger-km traveled that is the average distance traveled by people X no. of pax. It is because if same number of people start traveling double their usual journey, then the crowd will double in the trains as every pax will occupy a train for double time period. And it is not difficult to measure either as the fare collection gates can provide the data for entries and exits of all pax. But I have hardly seen this data being used (or rather reported).
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