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Old December 17th, 2006, 07:30 PM   #1
edubejar
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PARIS | Bus, LRT, Tram

A must-see video of Paris' new tramway line with cool ground and aerial views of Left Bank Paris' along the Maréchaux boulevards...click on the first video, L'histoire du projet T3, which also shows the construction phase.

http://www.tramway.paris.fr/tram.asp..._change/D7.asp



After several decades of a Paris with no tramways, Paris became in the minds of many people a city of métro and commuter trains, most of which are underground, as well as buses. But yesturday, December 17, 2006, Paris' first tramway line, Line T3, was inaugurated to the splendor of many, the deception of others, and the indifference of some.

Although the Greater Paris area has had 2 tram lines, T1 and T2 for some years now, and the new T4 for exactly one month now, line T3 is for many Parisians who never or hardly ever venture to the suburbs, their first site of a tramway in Paris since they were children, and to the younger, post-WW2 generation, their very first ever.

The tramways feature the typical white and jade green colors of Paris' public transportation.

Some facts on this new tramway line:

- 17 stations along the Maréchaux boulevards, which are a series of major boulevards that almost consistently run parellel to the Périphérique and serve as a non-freeway (with traffic lights) type of ring-road, shortly before the Péripherique.

- 7,9 km from Pont du Garigliano in the West to Porte d'Ivry in the East

- 5.00 - 24.30, 7 days a week

- 4 minute intervals during peak hours

- 24 minute duration from end to end

- 38% increase in speed compared to the replaced PC1 bus

- 21 tramways in circulation

- 78 sits per tramway compared to 41 in the replaced PC1 bus

- 304 approximate total person capacity per tramway compared to 100 in the replaced PC1 bus

- 25% expected traffic reduction on the Maréchaux boulevards, as well as a general reduction of air and noise pollution

- 1,000 trees planted along the tramway paysage

- 36,000 m2 of grass plat-forme

I'm not proof-reading so I hope I havn't made any mistakes
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Old December 17th, 2006, 07:49 PM   #2
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Great, there was a piece in my evening paper too yesterday. (NRC Handelsblad - NL)
I like the metro but using the tram takes up less time! No climbing of the stairs etc. The trams look good and the scheme of planting new trees is good as well.
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Old December 17th, 2006, 09:19 PM   #3
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Nice video.

But the tram is pretty far outside the city center and not very interesting for tourists, as the map shows. It's just a block or two north of the freeway that makes up the southern border of the city proper:


Source: http://www.tramway.paris.fr/tram.asp...=suivez/B1.asp
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Old December 17th, 2006, 09:25 PM   #4
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This tramway remplace the busiest bus line of Paris
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Old December 17th, 2006, 10:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
Nice video.

But the tram is pretty far outside the city center and not very interesting for tourists, as the map shows. It's just a block or two north of the freeway that makes up the southern border of the city proper:


Source: http://www.tramway.paris.fr/tram.asp...=suivez/B1.asp
Well...true but when you think about it Paris-proper is small and compact and the Maréchaux boulevards are not that far from the more central, touristic areas. But you are right, most tourists will probably not come in any contact with this tramway. But then again, the more centric, touristic neighborhoods are well covered by foot, subway or bus, or a combination of these.

What Paris lacked was better peripheral transportation, which the PC, petite ceinture or little belt buses provided (and still provide outside of the tramway segment), but not as well (that may still be an argument and not a fact). Also, because the Maréchaux boulevards are located so close to the péripherique (loop freeway), which coincides with the administrative boundaries of Paris, the tramway also serves 7 communes (Greater Paris municipalities), in addition to 3 arrondissements.

Furthermore, by backing out that much, the tramway makes connections with 19 suburban bus routes, many of which only go as far into Paris as the Maréchaux boulevards, in addition with 18 Parisian bus routes, 5 subway lines, and 2 RER lines.

Lastly, the Maréchaux boulevards are the only ones among the concentric roads to be both wide enough and thoroughly uninterrupted, and future plans are to probably do away with all PC buses and replace all the Maréchaux with tramways. The only other boulevard closer to the epicenter wide enough that runs east-west (and also concentrically parellel to the Maréchaux and péripherique) already has the metro line 6, which is largely an elevated line, so that way out of the question.

But yes, this new tramway will probably go unnoticed to most tourists, unless they know about it and visit. However, many moderate and low-budget hotels are located near the Maréchaux or even just outside the péripherique, i.e. Ibis hotels.
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Old December 19th, 2006, 01:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edubejar View Post
Although the Greater Paris area has had 2 tram lines, T1 and T2 for some years now, and the new T4 for exactly one month now, line T3 is for many Parisians who never or hardly ever venture to the suburbs, their first sight of a tramway in Paris since they were children
80% of Parisians live in the suburbs, so your sentence makes no sense whasoever. Unless you consider that only those people wealthy enough to live inside the City of Paris proper are true "Parisians", but then it's like saying that only the 1 million inhabitants of zone 1 of London are true Londoners, or that only the 1.5 million inhabitants of Manhattan are true New Yorkers. Anyway, I know you probably didn't mean bad, but your sentence is typical of the all too frequent contempt for the 9 million Parisians who live in the suburbs.
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Old December 19th, 2006, 03:14 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
80% of Parisians live in the suburbs, so your sentence makes no sense whasoever. Unless you consider that only those people wealthy enough to live inside the City of Paris proper are true "Parisians", but then it's like saying that only the 1 million inhabitants of zone 1 of London are true Londoners, or that only the 1.5 million inhabitants of Manhattan are true New Yorkers. Anyway, I know you probably didn't mean bad, but your sentence is typical of the all too frequent contempt for the 9 million Parisians who live in the suburbs.
Please don't over-analyse this more than necessary...I'm merely trying to show Skyscrapercity forumers Paris' new T3 line. My definition of "parisian" was an inhabitant of Paris-proper, who has a mailing address that says Paris. If you want to define Parisians as all people living in Greater Paris, or Ile-de-France, or whatever, I will ask you kindly to please do it in another thread. I've read before your obcessive posts on that matter and I prefer that this thread doesn't get into that, because there is so much more to discuss about Paris than that.

Meanwhile, I will remind you that the only area that can OFFICIALLY be called Paris is within its administrative boundary which is not ambiguous as it is clearly delineated in maps. You either live in Paris, or in another municipality which may or MAY NOT be part of Greater Paris, unless you live outside the jurisdiction of any municipality (the country). Unfortunately, I can't say the same for the term "parisian," as there is no entity that regulates that officially, perhaps not even a dictionary. However, there does exist the term "francilien" for people from the Ile-de-France region, of which Paris is the capital, and I"m one to prefer to use that term, as others do, because atleast that one is correct so long as you live in Ile-de-France, while your preference for "parisian" can be easily challenged in any official document. So please don't say my sentence makes no sense WHATSOEVER, as if your definition was OFFICIAL, even if I'm ok with the use of the term "parisian" for someone living in the Paris suburbs. But that's just colloquial and NOT OFFICIAL.

As for the term "New Yorker," that term is used interchangeably, even by people who don't live in any of its boroughs or even the state of New York. However, the municipality of New York, NY is made up of 5 boroughs, of which Manhattan is only one, unlike Paris. It's not the same thing, even if both urban areas behave the same. It's a matter of administration and jurisdiction, which again, are well documented and delineated officially. And I don't know what you mean by Zone 1 of London...it sounds like a subway map of fares based on zones. Again, London is London and it has a different scenario going for it which will confuse matters even more.
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Old December 19th, 2006, 11:02 AM   #8
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Comme J'admire La France!!

À mon avis et au niveau mondial le pays donne le bon exemple en matière d'infrastructures ferroviaires .

Félicitations!!!
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Old December 19th, 2006, 10:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edubejar View Post
Please don't over-analyse this more than necessary...I'm merely trying to show Skyscrapercity forumers Paris' new T3 line. My definition of "parisian" was an inhabitant of Paris-proper, who has a mailing address that says Paris. If you want to define Parisians as all people living in Greater Paris, or Ile-de-France, or whatever, I will ask you kindly to please do it in another thread. I've read before your obcessive posts on that matter and I prefer that this thread doesn't get into that, because there is so much more to discuss about Paris than that.

Meanwhile, I will remind you that the only area that can OFFICIALLY be called Paris is within its administrative boundary which is not ambiguous as it is clearly delineated in maps. You either live in Paris, or in another municipality which may or MAY NOT be part of Greater Paris, unless you live outside the jurisdiction of any municipality (the country). Unfortunately, I can't say the same for the term "parisian," as there is no entity that regulates that officially, perhaps not even a dictionary. However, there does exist the term "francilien" for people from the Ile-de-France region, of which Paris is the capital, and I"m one to prefer to use that term, as others do, because atleast that one is correct so long as you live in Ile-de-France, while your preference for "parisian" can be easily challenged in any official document. So please don't say my sentence makes no sense WHATSOEVER, as if your definition was OFFICIAL, even if I'm ok with the use of the term "parisian" for someone living in the Paris suburbs. But that's just colloquial and NOT OFFICIAL.

As for the term "New Yorker," that term is used interchangeably, even by people who don't live in any of its boroughs or even the state of New York. However, the municipality of New York, NY is made up of 5 boroughs, of which Manhattan is only one, unlike Paris. It's not the same thing, even if both urban areas behave the same. It's a matter of administration and jurisdiction, which again, are well documented and delineated officially. And I don't know what you mean by Zone 1 of London...it sounds like a subway map of fares based on zones. Again, London is London and it has a different scenario going for it which will confuse matters even more.
Bollocks. You don't need some bit of administrative paper to tell people where they can and can't come from - those who live there understand better than anyone else. I've always thought Paris has about the same population as London. Plenty of 'London' areas aren't addressed London. NY hasn't evolved the same way as London or Paris and the American version of assessing a city and its boundaries is bloated and based on modern prinicples of administration.

They had pictures of Paris' tram T3 in the LondonPaper this evening. It looks very smart - well suited to the Boulevards of the city. The French are really doing a great job of integrating their new city trams into the surrounding aesthetics.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 02:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarflonlad View Post
Bollocks. You don't need some bit of administrative paper to tell people where they can and can't come from - those who live there understand better than anyone else. I've always thought Paris has about the same population as London. Plenty of 'London' areas aren't addressed London. NY hasn't evolved the same way as London or Paris and the American version of assessing a city and its boundaries is bloated and based on modern prinicples of administration.
I didn't say you need a piece of administrative paper to tell people where they live. Most people know that before they move to a city, or since they were born, if they still live in the same city However, should you loose your mind, there are maps to help remind where you live, or you can look for your mail, where they always put your city, or you can consult the agency that handles your I.D., etc... Sooner or later, you will have to know exactly where you live.

Administrative boundaries exist everywhere. The concept is universal. Governments need administrative boundaries so there is no ambiguity in the area they have jurisdiction, and so they know who pays their municipal taxes. The mayor of Paris, Bertrand Delanoë, only has jurisdiction inside the City of Paris, and not any other city, no matter how close it is to Paris. When you live in Paris, you are a "parisian" and you pay any taxes that Paris may impose on you, such as when you own property. However, if you live close enough to Paris, you may decide you still want to be called a "parisian." It seems most people do it.

Please...I hope this isn't a SIZE thing!

If you need to learn more about the City of Paris, please visit their website...it will tell you exactly what the extents of the City is :
http://www.paris.fr



Quote:
Originally Posted by sarflonlad View Post
They had pictures of Paris' tram T3 in the LondonPaper this evening. It looks very smart - well suited to the Boulevards of the city. The French are really doing a great job of integrating their new city trams into the surrounding aesthetics.
Yes, I know...that is why I took the time to post the video...aren't you glad??
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Old December 20th, 2006, 03:04 AM   #11
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Some pics of Paris T3



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Old December 20th, 2006, 06:05 AM   #12
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I don't understand why everyone is lining up to gang-fight edubejar. His points are valid, and does not change the fact that the tram is back in Paris PROPER.

As a friend of mine would say, get the sand out of the ******.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 05:23 PM   #13
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Thanks for posting the pics, minatu ku Did you take them yourself? I like the second one, with the Cité Universitaire behind. I think it's great it passes right by that university housing area, which has many international students.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 05:49 PM   #14
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I don't understand why everyone is lining up to gang-fight edubejar.
Why? Because it is a very sensitive issue. A lot of the 2 million residents of the city proper treat the 9 million people who live outside of the city proper (the so-called "banlieue") as if they were some sort of aliens living in a far away world. In Paris the administrative limits have been frozen since 1860, and so they have become quite meaningless in practical terms. It's a bit as if NYC was still officially just the island of Manhattan, or as if London was still officially just the City of London. I already posted this picture some months ago, but I'll post it again. As you can see (what I called "beyond the city limits" in the foreground is the so-called "banlieue"), the administrative border is totally artificial.


Of course this played a major role in the riots last year. Not only the immigrants in the "banlieue" feel alienated because they are immigrants, but they also feel alienated because they are not considered as real Parisians by the residents of the city proper. And now many people critize this tramway line because it will reinforce the administrative separation between the city proper and the "banlieue". You'll have to cross the tramway line to enter the city proper, which will symbolically reinforce the perception of separation between city proper and "banlieue". Also, hundreds of millions of euros were spent for this line, when people in the "banlieue" are still waiting for decent public transportation. No wonder this tramway line is fueling a huge controversy in France.

Last edited by brisavoine; December 20th, 2006 at 05:55 PM.
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Old December 20th, 2006, 06:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Thanks for posting the pics, minatu ku Did you take them yourself? I like the second one, with the Cité Universitaire behind. I think it's great it passes right by that university housing area, which has many international students.
Sorry but
it is not my pics

EDIT my 700th post
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Old December 20th, 2006, 08:24 PM   #16
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Could the 'Parisians' here get either back on topic or leave this thread? Otherwise, it would be better to lock this thread...
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Old December 20th, 2006, 09:22 PM   #17
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more pics please!!!!
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Old December 20th, 2006, 09:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Why? Because it is a very sensitive issue. A lot of the 2 million residents of the city proper treat the 9 million people who live outside of the city proper (the so-called "banlieue") as if they were some sort of aliens living in a far away world. In Paris the administrative limits have been frozen since 1860, and so they have become quite meaningless in practical terms. It's a bit as if NYC was still officially just the island of Manhattan, or as if London was still officially just the City of London. I already posted this picture some months ago, but I'll post it again. As you can see (what I called "beyond the city limits" in the foreground is the so-called "banlieue"), the administrative border is totally artificial.


Of course this played a major role in the riots last year. Not only the immigrants in the "banlieue" feel alienated because they are immigrants, but they also feel alienated because they are not considered as real Parisians by the residents of the city proper. And now many people critize this tramway line because it will reinforce the administrative separation between the city proper and the "banlieue". You'll have to cross the tramway line to enter the city proper, which will symbolically reinforce the perception of separation between city proper and "banlieue". Also, hundreds of millions of euros were spent for this line, when people in the "banlieue" are still waiting for decent public transportation. No wonder this tramway line is fueling a huge controversy in France.
I agree but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. It's the same situation for many British cities.
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Old December 21st, 2006, 04:30 AM   #19
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Cool transportion !
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Old December 22nd, 2006, 10:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Why? Because it is a very sensitive issue. A lot of the 2 million residents of the city proper treat the 9 million people who live outside of the city proper (the so-called "banlieue") as if they were some sort of aliens living in a far away world. In Paris the administrative limits have been frozen since 1860, and so they have become quite meaningless in practical terms. It's a bit as if NYC was still officially just the island of Manhattan, or as if London was still officially just the City of London. I already posted this picture some months ago, but I'll post it again. As you can see (what I called "beyond the city limits" in the foreground is the so-called "banlieue"), the administrative border is totally artificial.


Of course this played a major role in the riots last year. Not only the immigrants in the "banlieue" feel alienated because they are immigrants, but they also feel alienated because they are not considered as real Parisians by the residents of the city proper. And now many people critize this tramway line because it will reinforce the administrative separation between the city proper and the "banlieue". You'll have to cross the tramway line to enter the city proper, which will symbolically reinforce the perception of separation between city proper and "banlieue". Also, hundreds of millions of euros were spent for this line, when people in the "banlieue" are still waiting for decent public transportation. No wonder this tramway line is fueling a huge controversy in France.
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