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Old January 5th, 2007, 11:39 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eusebius View Post
Now, this whole issue I never made up but simply came to the notion after comparatative trips. Like today, a trolley bus in Arnhem speeds up to around 57 miles an hour within seconds after a busstop. They're powerful machines, climbing from river level to 250 ft within a mere 2 miles. With powerful enough buses or trams plus exclusive rights on roads and squares, surface transits will beat subterranean hubs. Arnhem is quite busy and bustling; it's not like there was plenty of space. Car traffic has given in space.
I agree that a carefully laid out surface system with priority at traffic lights can be a good thing for smaller cities. But a metropolis like London is too dense and all the road space is needed for cars. And consider reliability: One car accident, fainted person, or dropped market stand on the tram rails (or the bus lane) can block the entire line for hours with thousands of passengers waiting. And that sort of incidents happen all the time in big cities (but possibly not in Trumpton-upon-Ravon ).
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Old January 6th, 2007, 03:57 AM   #62
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Maybe I should add that Arnhem itself is indeed not a big city but within a radius of 100km/60 miles there's about 20 million people with the corresponding amount of traffic. The density in some parts of Arnhem easily compares to some parts of London. I know, say, Dulwich equally well as Soho.

This new Paris tram may prove to be the best solution for those arrondisements. Back to London to prove my point: after having arrived at Waterloo's, I boarded off and walked into Westminster and didn't take the tube. Only with dreadful weather it was that I took the tube.
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Old January 6th, 2007, 04:10 AM   #63
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And still the timetables show an average speed that is much, much lower than that of tube travel in London for example.
And to be honest, I think they're just plain ugly vehicles too, and I don't want a whole cable mess in London.
As if the tube trains look any good Gosh, now there you have some ugly designs.

Timetables only serve as guidelines. During the rush hours, buses run on regardless of a timetable.

The drivers don't get paid to drive along their routes merely according to some schedule.
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Old January 6th, 2007, 05:16 AM   #64
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The timetables are still based on how long it usually takes to get from a to b. Are you telling me those trolley timetables are way off then, or are trolleys there really twice as slow as the tube here? Trains will also usually meet their timetables during rush hour, buses are more influenced by it.
And I think the trains look good, especially the newer ones. And they're mostly underground in the busy areas so you don't see them. Instead, you'll just see some of the great station architecture we have.

Also: thanks for the story about walking to Westminster! I don't see the point. You should check out Westminster's station some time though, it's beautiful.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:34 PM   #65
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Something that we are increasingly seeing in the United State is Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) being substituted for projects that were once thought to be candidates for light rail. In its ultimate form, BRT features many of the same attributes as light rail including dedicated lanes and boarding at stations with off-vehicle fare payment. The Orange Line BRT in Los Angeles is an example of such a line:





Light rail proponents argue that the loading of wheel chair passengers is more awkward and the vehicles do not ride as smoothly, but the travel speed is comparable to light rail and the cost advantage is compelling.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 04:27 PM   #66
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Yes but a bus or a light rail are very ineficient for cities dense as Paris

An exemple in the same district of the line T3

Metro line 4 (frequency between 90 and 240 s)
Porte d'Orleans at Denfert Rochereau (1.5 km 4 stations) 5 minutes

Bus line 68 (frequency 5 at 7 min)
Porte D'Orleans at Denfert Rochereaux (1.5 km 4 stations) more than 15 minutes and between 30 min and 1 hour in rush hours )

Note
The line T3 has a stop at Porte d'Orleans
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Old January 8th, 2007, 12:01 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
The timetables are still based on how long it usually takes to get from a to b. Are you telling me those trolley timetables are way off then, or are trolleys there really twice as slow as the tube here? Trains will also usually meet their timetables during rush hour, buses are more influenced by it.
And I think the trains look good, especially the newer ones. And they're mostly underground in the busy areas so you don't see them. Instead, you'll just see some of the great station architecture we have.

Also: thanks for the story about walking to Westminster! I don't see the point. You should check out Westminster's station some time though, it's beautiful.
Tube timetables give the times of departure and arrival at platforms. Buses arrive very close to your destination and with the new scheme for buslanes, buses don't get stuck. Buses have transponders whose signalling give them priority at junctions. Buses drive at around 60km/h at a few steps from all the main destinations. To reach the stadium they speed up to 80. London and Arnhem can be compared, both near a river, upon hills and to cross the river simply is quicker by bus because by bus you travel a shorter distance. Switching platforms at tube stations can be very time consuming but at busstations this only takes a few steps.

Back in the 1980s busdrivers went on strike in protest
of the traffic jams.

It seems that only a few countries like NL and DK are willing to redesign roads. Or, like in Arnhem, tear down buildings to give way to cyclepaths and buslanes.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 12:50 AM   #68
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Hahahaha. Well after your Arnhem - London comparison I'm just not going to talk about it anymore.

So how are the trams doing in Paris?
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Old January 8th, 2007, 03:14 AM   #69
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Quote:
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Hahahaha. Well after your Arnhem - London comparison I'm just not going to talk about it anymore.

So how are the trams doing in Paris?
The funny thing is that a couple of Londeners pointed this out. Both Arnhem and Nijmegen have substantial amounts of British immigrants - thanks to Thatcher.

Do you understand the word comparison at all?
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Old May 1st, 2007, 09:40 PM   #70
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My photos of the third line of Paris tram:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xabi View Post
Parisko tranbia (3. linea):









2007/IV/9

Argazki guztiak Porte d'Orleans inguruan hartutakoak dira.

Parisko tranbiaren 3. lineari buruzko datuak.
From Basque transport forum.
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Old July 5th, 2008, 03:22 PM   #71
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PARIS | Bus, LRT, Tram

Lines in operation

Paris tram system is 181 km with 181 stations.
It has 9 lines operated by two compagnies.

RATP :
SNCF Transillien :

More lines are under in construction or planned.
Before the extention of T2 at Porte de Versailles (T3) none of the tram lines were connected to another.

More than 800,000 passengers per average workdays.


Asnières-Gennevilliers Les Courtilles - Noisy le Sec (1992, last extention in 2012)
-17 km
-36 stations







Pont de Bezons -Porte de Versailles (1997, last extention in 2012)
-17.9 km
-24 stations







Pont du Garigliano - Porte de Vincennes (2006, last extension in 2012)
-12.4 km
-25 stations







Porte de Vincennes - Porte de la Chapelle (2012)
-9.4km
-18 stations






Bondy - Aulnay sous Bois (2006)
Tram Train
-7.9 km
-11 stations






Marche de Saint-Denis - Garges-Sarcelles (2013)
Rubber-tired tramway (Translohr)
-6.5 km
-16 stations





Châtillon-Montrouge - Robert Wagner Velizy (2014)
Rubber-tired tramway (Translohr)
-12.4 km
-21 stations





Villejuif Louis Aragon - Athis-Mons (2013)
-11.2 km
-18 stations





Saint-Denis - Porte de Paris - Villetaneuse-Université/Épinay-Orgemont
-8.46 km
-17 stations





Extension of existing lines
  • In construction


Porte de la Chapelle - Porte d'Asnières (2017)
-4.7 km
-8 stations



Robert Wagner - Viroflay–Rive-Droite (2016)
-1.6 km
-2 underground stations

  • In Project


Noisy le Sec - Val de Fontenay (2019)
-7.7 km
-15 stations

Asnières - Gennevilliers Les Courtilles - Colombes - Gabriel Péri (2023)
-6.4 km
-12 stations



Porte d'Asnières - Porte Maillot (2020)
- 2 km
- 5 stations



New branch to Clichy-Montfermeil (2018)
-6.5 km
-11 stations



Athis-Mons - Juvisy-sur-Orge (2018)
-3.7 km (900m underground)
-6 stations (1 underground)


New lines
  • In Project

Porte de Choisy - Orly-Fer à Cheval (after 2020)
-10.3 km
-19 stations



Antony-Croix de Berny - Clamart-Place du Garde (after 2020)
-8.2 km
-14 stations
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Last edited by Minato ku; December 27th, 2014 at 04:47 PM.
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Old July 5th, 2008, 07:08 PM   #72
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I wondered when the tramways of Paris would feature. Most of them seem to have been opened since I was last in the city!
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Old July 5th, 2008, 11:58 PM   #73
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Build, build, build...
Imo Paris can't have enaugh from these lines!
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Old July 6th, 2008, 01:51 AM   #74
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In the inner city there is enouth lines but not in suburbs, unfortunely in some case they build tram instead of metro because it is cheaper.
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Old July 6th, 2008, 12:59 PM   #75
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Quote:
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In the inner city there is enouth lines but not in suburbs, unfortunely in some case they build tram instead of metro because it is cheaper.
So, according to you, trams are bad?
But it's a pity there aren't tram lines is Paris' inner city.

And according to a map of the RATP network, it seems like the tram lines only serve to connect terminuses of metro lines with each other.
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Old July 6th, 2008, 02:03 PM   #76
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Which line runs near Plaza d'Italie?

I was in Paris at the beginning of this year and saw a tram come through near my hotel, but unfortunately didn't have time to do any exploring.

I didn't have much time in Paris at all - managed to see the Eiffel, Arc and Moulin Rouge. Would love to go back soon!
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Old July 6th, 2008, 02:15 PM   #77
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67 ataitons for 38 km! Wow that's what I call high staiton density!

I like the trams!
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Old July 6th, 2008, 02:20 PM   #78
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Actually no tram run at Place d'Italie
In an other way there is a tram in Porte d'Italie (not so far at about 1.5 km of Place d'Italie following the Avenue d'Italie)



Pictures by JP.

Stade Charlety



Avenue d'Italie

Porte de Choisy one stop after Porte d'Italie




A tram and the high-rises of Chinatown
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Old July 6th, 2008, 02:45 PM   #79
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Hey, I was wondering when (if) you're going to open a thread about trams, Minato ku.

T3 is awesome from what I can see. Last time I was in Paris only T1 and T2 were built, but on September 2 I'll be back in Paris and I wanna take some time to visit (if that makes any sense to you) T3. Even though the area is of little touristic value, I wanna see it. I know I'll not resist the temptation to take a stroll in the Biblioteque Fr. Mitterand-Bercy area so I might as well take the T3 from Porte d'Ivry which is not far away.

Btw, are there plans to extend the T3 line West or East over the Seine? For example connecting it to M8, M14, RER C and RER D by extending it to the East?
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Old July 6th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #80
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nice are there any network maps?
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