daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 15th, 2014, 06:08 PM   #981
RoccatArvo
Cousin caché de Caserass
 
RoccatArvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Strasbourg-la-Reine
Posts: 17,685
Likes (Received): 8600

The Translohr is a tram on tyres. In France, it is classified as a tram on tyres. The TVR of Bombardier is classified as a guided BRT.
RoccatArvo no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 15th, 2014, 06:12 PM   #982
Tramwayman
Trams the Best!!!
 
Tramwayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tbilisi
Posts: 620
Likes (Received): 530

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccatArvo View Post
The Translohr is a tram on tyres. In France, it is classified as a tram on tyres. The TVR of Bombardier is classified as a guided BRT.
That does not make it tram
Trams in USA are certified as trolley, streetcar

Well Bombardier has two types of them, one can go without guided rail the another one can not, and both of them are stupid system.
__________________

Silly_Walks liked this post
Tramwayman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2014, 06:27 PM   #983
RoccatArvo
Cousin caché de Caserass
 
RoccatArvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Strasbourg-la-Reine
Posts: 17,685
Likes (Received): 8600

- Trams have a pantograph and overhead lines. The Translohr too.
- Translohr trams are bidirectionnal, like Citadis trams and Flexity trams.
- The Translohr has a permanent guiding, like normal trams.
- The Translohr can be 46m long. In a lot of countries, bus can't overstep 30 meters. In France, the limit is 25 meters.
- The Translohr is electric, like any other tram.
- The GLT is subjected to trafic regulation. The Translohr is subject to the same regulation than other trams.

Except the wheels and the bogies, the Translohr is like the other trams.
RoccatArvo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 04:40 AM   #984
JustinB
Registered User
 
JustinB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,633
Likes (Received): 30

I can't wait to ride T5 and T6 when I visit Paris next year. I didn't have much hope for Rubber tyred trams after the bombardier debacles in Caen and Nancy, but it seems Translohr is having some success.
__________________
The more valuable you perceive your time as worth, the less valuable it actually is.
JustinB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 04:46 AM   #985
Woonsocket54
PC LOAD LETTER
 
Woonsocket54's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: East Millinocket, Maine
Posts: 5,659
Likes (Received): 5778

It's a trolleybus on rail(s).
__________________

Silly_Walks liked this post
Woonsocket54 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 04:57 AM   #986
Gros Matou
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Montréal
Posts: 83
Likes (Received): 75

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tramwayman View Post
That does not make it tram
Trams in USA are certified as trolley, streetcar

Well Bombardier has two types of them, one can go without guided rail the another one can not, and both of them are stupid system.
The Translohr is a tram, because it is designed to be operated just like a tram. Just like a rubber tyred metro is still a metro.

While having rubber wheels, the Translohr can do the same thing a steel wheeled tram can do. Similar capacity, similar working conditions.

The TVR isn't a tram, because unlike the Translohr, it is only partly guided, and thus requires a license plate and must meet the same road standard than a bus. Also, it is limited in length and cannot operate with multiple units. Which also means the TVR's maximum capacity is much lower than the Translor's maximum capacity. In short terms, the TVR cannot do much more than a bi-articulated trolleybus.
__________________

RoccatArvo liked this post
Gros Matou no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 10:39 AM   #987
Pierre50
Registered User
 
Pierre50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: France, Normandy
Posts: 93
Likes (Received): 31

I have myself simplified this view on this phylosophical debate, and I call Translohr (or TVR) : TRAMIBUS
What is a fact is that the ride of both TVR and TRANSLOHR are much bumpy than any tram on rails whatever the company is building it.
One of the weak points of these Traminbus is the tyres on the track passing always at the same path creating issues in the time.
France has presently only a long experience with TVR (Nancy and Caen). Caen is seruiously thinking to replace their TVR by trams on rails to overcome the problems of tyres paths as well as tremendous maintenace costs of vehicles which are out of global market demand. TVR in Nancy is really horrible ....!! and I don't know the costs of running them everyday.
Clermont Ferrrand with their Transllohr will give us lessons in the future about the life cycle costs and issues. Of course the Translohr used in Paris will surely give us also these key informations due to the high use of these vehicles on T5 and T6 lines.

The questions of slopes do not rely on any Siemens or Alstom or Bombardier manufacruring, it 's only a simple question on how many kW you put on the motors. It's true to say that many trams on rails i the world are climbing severe slopes.
__________________

lechevallierpatrick liked this post
Pierre50 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 01:12 PM   #988
JustinB
Registered User
 
JustinB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,633
Likes (Received): 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gros Matou View Post
The Translohr is a tram, because it is designed to be operated just like a tram. Just like a rubber tyred metro is still a metro.

While having rubber wheels, the Translohr can do the same thing a steel wheeled tram can do. Similar capacity, similar working conditions.

The TVR isn't a tram, because unlike the Translohr, it is only partly guided, and thus requires a license plate and must meet the same road standard than a bus. Also, it is limited in length and cannot operate with multiple units. Which also means the TVR's maximum capacity is much lower than the Translor's maximum capacity. In short terms, the TVR cannot do much more than a bi-articulated trolleybus.
Partially correct about the TVR. The Caen system was 100% guided by a rail, so it wasn't considered a bus, and it was powered via a pantograph. The vehicles didn't have license plates. The Nancy system was 60% guided by rail, and powered by trolleybus poles, so it was able to go off rails, and hence it's more of a guided trolleybus, and the vehicles required license plates.
__________________
The more valuable you perceive your time as worth, the less valuable it actually is.
JustinB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 02:50 PM   #989
intres
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 32
Likes (Received): 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccatArvo View Post
- The Translohr can be 46m long. In a lot of countries, bus can't overstep 30 meters. In France, the limit is 25 meters.
I shall not answer on your so called qualification of trams concerning Translohr, but I am anxious to specify that in France, the legislation on the road vehicles indicates limit(borderline) values of:
24,5 meters for buses with double articulation;
18,75 meters for buses with simple articulation (as well as the set of one lorry + Trailer);
13,5 meters for the not articulated buses.
intres no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 03:00 PM   #990
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,355
Likes (Received): 26177

Today tram line 8 is opened. Map from urbanrail.net:
http://www.ratp.fr/fr/ratp/r_122518/...re-en-service/



dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 03:11 PM   #991
RoccatArvo
Cousin caché de Caserass
 
RoccatArvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Strasbourg-la-Reine
Posts: 17,685
Likes (Received): 8600

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
Partially correct about the TVR. The Caen system was 100% guided by a rail, so it wasn't considered a bus, and it was powered via a pantograph. The vehicles didn't have license plates.
In Caen, the TVR has a licence plate. There is a guiding rail on the whole line, but the vehicles must often go on the road when there is a problem on the line.
RoccatArvo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 03:11 PM   #992
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,077
Likes (Received): 8829

When you see that network, you realise just how extensive the Parisian tram connections are becoming now. They're really filling the gaps.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 05:39 PM   #993
Stravinsky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,188
Likes (Received): 1147

We're at around 100 km of tramway lines, right?
Stravinsky no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 07:00 PM   #994
VincentB_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Niort (60km east from La Rochelle)
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 494

Well...

I used the Translohr in Clermont-Ferrand, and the TVR in Caen. Sorry to say that but... I hate them. Both. They are bumpy, uncomfortable, and noisy.

In Caen one of the arguments in favour of the TVR was that a part of the city is built on top of a hill and that only a rubber-tyred vehicle could climb the slopes... After the debacle of the TVR and the decision to replace it with a classical steel-wheeled tram, strangely, this is not a problem anymore...

I remember very well that the same argument was used by the opponents of the tram when the first new network was built in Nantes in the early eighties. Of course it proved to be totally false.

The main reason why the Translohr was built in Clermont-Ferrand instead of a classical trams can be summarized in one single word : Michelin.

In Paris, the governement was afraid that Lohr would go bankrupt because of a lack of orders. And according to the Cour des Comptes (a public but independant and highly regarded Council which examines the expenses of the administrations and public organisations), the RATP only wanted to build as many lines as possible very quickly, no matter the technology used, to face up to a possible incoming competition from private operators.
__________________
VincentB_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 09:43 PM   #995
Tramwayman
Trams the Best!!!
 
Tramwayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tbilisi
Posts: 620
Likes (Received): 530

As I said on the other page, NO NEED TO BUILD THAT TRANSLOHR THING!!!!!!

A normal Tram can do everything what Paris needs.

Only reason Paris has built that thing is to keep occupying the people on something, who work on them, but they are not gonna sell this rubbish and useless thing anywhere in a NORMAL country!!!!

Slopes up tp 13-14% are no problem for a normal steel wheel modern articulated tram!!!

And there are very few cities in the world that need TRAM service and have slopes more then this, just doesn't exist!!!!
Tramwayman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 09:49 PM   #996
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

Stop with this, please!!
Debates about Transhor have been done so many times, enough!
_____________________________________________

After the T6 last saturday, the 9th parisian tram line opened today.
Say hello to the T8.
Unfortunately, the opening was at 4 pm when the sun begins to set.


Saint-Denis - Porte de Paris





Pierre de Geyter

Saint Denis - Gare, this where the T8 meet the T1.
The is the first crossing between two tram lines in Paris.

After Delaunay-Belleville where line splits into two branches.
The switch had a dysfunction, the driver had to move it manually.



The branch to Villetaneuse-Université

Blumenthal, notice the Z50000 train of Transilien H in the back.

Les Mobiles

Les Béatus, there is a junior high school here, a lot of excited kids.

Rose Bertin, the center of Épinay-sur-Seine with a shopping mall.









Épinay-sur-Seine - Gare

Épinay-Orgemont, the last stop with an island platform.
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !

Last edited by Minato ku; December 16th, 2014 at 09:55 PM.
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2014, 10:39 PM   #997
lechevallierpatrick
Registered User
 
lechevallierpatrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Québec city
Posts: 196
Likes (Received): 94

When T8 crosses T1,is there a connection between the 2 lines?
lechevallierpatrick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2014, 12:58 AM   #998
RoccatArvo
Cousin caché de Caserass
 
RoccatArvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Strasbourg-la-Reine
Posts: 17,685
Likes (Received): 8600

Some videos about the new tram lines near Paris.



__________________

Minato ku liked this post
RoccatArvo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2014, 02:15 AM   #999
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,759

Quote:
Originally Posted by lechevallierpatrick View Post
When T8 crosses T1,is there a connection between the 2 lines?
No there is no connection between both lines but switches have been installed on track of the T1 and T8 to allow a connection in the future
As you see on these old pictures, the two switches are not connected.


__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !

lechevallierpatrick liked this post
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2014, 03:01 AM   #1000
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
No there is no connection between both lines but switches have been installed on track of the T1 and T8 to allow a connection in the future
As you see on these old pictures, the two switches are not connected.


This and T5 as Translohr can only be .

Seriously. Are they thinking of the possibility of a future network AT ALL?? A well-built network would be able to create multiple potential future routes with a minimum of additional construction.
__________________
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
paris, paris transport

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium