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Old July 24th, 2016, 08:18 PM   #1341
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Buses are dirty and low-tech. They are going to be obsolete soon as well.
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Old July 24th, 2016, 09:54 PM   #1342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Buses are dirty
If only, there was ways of powering buses that aren't diesel? If only they emitted something clean like water and none of that Noxious NOx nonsense. Oh, wait: they exist!


But perhaps water is too dirty, if only there was some way of buses not emitting anything in the environs they drive through. Like some sort of battery power, perhaps? Oh, wait: they exist!
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and low-tech.
Hyperloops? or don't bother with vehicles and just jump straight to NNY's tubes?

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They are going to be obsolete soon as well.
Given you're ignoring at least ten years of technical advancement wrt buses, of course you think they are soon to be obsolete. When you think "bus" and think something little newer than the below image, you're going to think that buses are old hat.
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Old July 30th, 2016, 03:30 AM   #1343
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Quote:
What The Paris Trams Can Teach U.S. Cities

July 7, 2016 by TransitCenter

It’s been more than thirty years since an American city opened a new subway system, but transit agencies haven’t stopped investing in rail. From Houston to Phoenix and Sacramento to Seattle, light rail lines are opening or expanding at a steady clip. In addition, mixed-traffic streetcar lines—which run shorter routes and do so more slowly than light rail—are opening or in the planning stages in an equally broad array of cities. Despite some lines (both light rail and streetcar) on which ridership remains stubbornly low, overall ridership on these modes has increased 46 percent in the last ten years.

Across the Atlantic, however, the Paris regional transit agency has embarked on a street-level rail expansion effort far surpassing that of any city here.

The Paris tramways have proven exceptional not just because there are so many of them (nine, with more in the planning and construction phases), but also because they are so popular. Ridership is 900,000 per day, which is five times greater than America’s busiest light-rail system (Boston’s Green Line) and greater than any subway system in the U.S. except New York.

All this is taking place on a network whose first line opened just 24 years ago and whose entire existence many visitors to Paris might not even be aware of, given that the routes are in the less touristy parts of the region.
...
http://transitcenter.org/2016/07/07/...re-hyper-cool/
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Old July 31st, 2016, 02:24 PM   #1344
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Buses are dirty and low-tech. They are going to be obsolete soon as well.


Walking is low-tech ; bicycles are low-tech too. You're right, we must eradicate legs and bicycles...

More and more busses in Paris are low emissions vehicules. Some lines provide a very good service :
- you'd better take the bus PC1 than the RER C !

- another very useful line is the 244 that runs between Porte Maillot and Suresnes (pic taken in the Bois de Boulogne near the Vuitton Foundation building one day after the french national day) :

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Old July 31st, 2016, 04:00 PM   #1345
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post

Exactly Paris trams can not teach anything to any city, separate no compatible to each other lines.

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Old July 31st, 2016, 06:15 PM   #1346
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The separate lines matter isn't that big yet, especially since the network is in a relatively early and scattered stage. But the compatibility will become a big concern down the line when it starts to become a real network.

By the way, are there any overlays of the old Bois de Boulogne park tram on modern maps like Google Maps?
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Old July 31st, 2016, 06:50 PM   #1347
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By the way, are there any overlays of the old Bois de Boulogne park tram on modern maps like Google Maps?
No. But the trams did in fact run on th border of the wood, not really inside.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...jpg?uselang=fr
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Old July 31st, 2016, 09:21 PM   #1348
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The separate lines matter isn't that big yet, especially since the network is in a relatively early and scattered stage. But the compatibility will become a big concern down the line when it starts to become a real network.
The tramways in Paris only serve to fill hole without heavy transports.
Trams act as feeder. There will never be a real connected network like in Vienna.

Paris' main transit network is metro/RER and suburban train.
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Old July 31st, 2016, 10:21 PM   #1349
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I seem to recall that there was one bus route through the center of Paris that was being talked about for conversion to tram. What was the number, and where did it run between?

As for there not being any intention of a network, I would say that you should never say never. There are already several instances of lines connecting, and there is provision for a connection between T1 and T8. Eventually (30-40 years from now), there may be something approaching a cohesive network.
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Old July 31st, 2016, 11:19 PM   #1350
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
The tramways in Paris only serve to fill hole without heavy transports.
Trams act as feeder. There will never be a real connected network like in Vienna.

Paris' main transit network is metro/RER and suburban train.
To be honest though, when I look at Saint Denis, this is already something resembling a tram network right there. And in the near future this will be even more so the case. And Saint Denis already shows how system incompatibilities prevent easy improvement of the network. Because of that T5 can not use infrastructure of T1 for possible direct connections for example to the station Saint Denis (transfer to T8 and RER line D).

So it looks like the network is already today worse than it could be because of incompatibilities. This will get more and more obvious the larger the tram network gets. Whose responsibility is this mess?

PS: Other than that though, I am a big fan of those tram lines, especially how they are really adding very valuable cross connections. Merely connecting to central Paris isn't enough. I also like how tram lines are also seen as part of a bigger transformative process for entire streetscapes.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 09:04 AM   #1351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
I seem to recall that there was one bus route through the center of Paris that was being talked about for conversion to tram. What was the number, and where did it run between?
I think it was the 91 but i'm really not sure. It runs between Montparnasse Station and Bastille.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 10:49 AM   #1352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
The tramways in Paris only serve to fill hole without heavy transports.
Trams act as feeder. There will never be a real connected network like in Vienna.

Paris' main transit network is metro/RER and suburban train.
Never say never, WHAT IF they want to do that and because of incompatibility they will have problems.

But French do not think so, Tramway in French city is more like an attraction and beautiful city face. As a fast transportation system it can not serve first of all they run very slow, rolling stock is very limited in curves.

Introducing T5 and T6 as translohr was one of the worst mistakes but everyone knows it was done to save useless Lohr Industries from bankruptcy. French government even pushed it under Alstom's arms to save it, despite Alstom not wanting it.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 01:04 PM   #1353
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Most Parisian tramways are designed to replace the bus lines (except T2 and T11 Express).
It's not intended as a fast transportation, if somebody want to go fast from Gare de Garges Sarcelles to Saint-Denis, there is the RER D.

As both T5 and T8 are both north-south lines and both end at Saint Denis, I don't see the need of a transfer between both lines.
Someone wanting to go from Epinay to Gare Pierrefitte would go faster by using a transversal bus line or the T11 Express by summer 2017 than make a long detour through Saint-Denis.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 08:12 PM   #1354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Most Parisian tramways are designed to replace the bus lines (except T2 and T11 Express).
It's not intended as a fast transportation, if somebody want to go fast from Gare de Garges Sarcelles to Saint-Denis, there is the RER D.

As both T5 and T8 are both north-south lines and both end at Saint Denis, I don't see the need of a transfer between both lines.
Someone wanting to go from Epinay to Gare Pierrefitte would go faster by using a transversal bus line or the T11 Express by summer 2017 than make a long detour through Saint-Denis.
I do not see any excuse why would you make all this lines non compatible with each other technically.

Yes that is what I am saying all the French trams are slow and quite annoying types of system, they are not efficient, they are just beautiful face of the city and nothing else. As an efficient transportation system they do not serve. Another thing is that they are very costly. Mass transit must be EFFICIENT not just beautiful toy.

I was talking about T5 and T6 useless translohr system.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 08:32 PM   #1355
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I seem to recall that there are plans for at least T8, and possibly T5, to be extended towards the center of Paris. Wouldn't it be useful to have a service that starts on the inner end of T8 and ends on the outer end of T5 or vice versa?
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Old August 1st, 2016, 10:45 PM   #1356
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As both T5 and T8 are both north-south lines and both end at Saint Denis, I don't see the need of a transfer between both lines.
Someone wanting to go from Epinay to Gare Pierrefitte would go faster by using a transversal bus line or the T11 Express by summer 2017 than make a long detour through Saint-Denis.
It's not so much about connecting T5 and T8, it is about connecting T5 directly to the RER line D. Don't tell me you can't see any value in that. And while that link that exists at the outer end of the line to RER D is nice, it would be more important to have that transfer option at the inner end of the line. As it is now, the T5 ends at the centre of Saint Denis but without efficient transfer to nearby D or 13. Ok, the subway could be considered still acceptable for pedestrian transfer, but for transferring to RER D you'd need to change to T1 for merely 2 stops or take T5 the wrong way. Both options are making PT needlessly unattractive.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 10:53 PM   #1357
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Indeed. Picture someone who lives/works in the Avenue De Ecole area, which is served only by T5. Now this person wishes to travel to Porte Maillot. Right now, they face two transfers. If the T5 could run-through on T1, then they would only have one transfer. And a single-transfer trip is much more attractive than a two-transfer trip. This is just one example out of many.

By the way, while I was hunting the 91-bus through the jungles of Google Maps, I came across something called the Direct 4. Is this some sort of special operation? What does the Direct category mean?
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Old August 9th, 2016, 12:17 AM   #1358
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It's an airport line.
Direct 4: Montparnasse - Gare de Lyon - CDG airport

http://en.lebusdirect.com/lignes-hor...tparnasse.html

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Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Indeed. Picture someone who lives/works in the Avenue De Ecole area, which is served only by T5. Now this person wishes to travel to Porte Maillot. Right now, they face two transfers. If the T5 could run-through on T1, then they would only have one transfer. And a single-transfer trip is much more attractive than a two-transfer trip. This is just one example out of many.
10 minutes walk to the T11 Express at Pierrefitte - Stains (opening in July 2017).
It will be much faster than the overcrowded and full of stops route of T1 and T5.
From Pierrefitte - Stains to Épinay-sur-Seine which connect to the RER C, there is just 3 stops on T11 Express.
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Old August 9th, 2016, 01:48 AM   #1359
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How does the T11 help if you are coming from along the T5 corridor (but not in walking distance to the T11 station) and want to take RER D towards the centre?

The T11 will be a nice adition for sure, but you are either coming from along its corridor or we are talking about one transfer more on top of all the others. It feels to me like you are trying hard on talking away a real disadvantage. If systems were compatible it would be relatively easy to extend the T5 by a mere 2 stations shared with T1 (I doubt those lines operate on a frequency which would overload a shared track) which would be an important connectivity, saving one transfer on the way to the city.

If the lines are packed and overloaded already, thats great. Increase the frequency and/or build new parallel lines for relief. One step closer to a network.
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Old August 9th, 2016, 01:51 AM   #1360
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...I was just using that as one example out of many possible ones.

There could also be many people who live along T2 and work along T3a, or vice-versa.
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