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Old March 26th, 2009, 04:15 PM   #61
SpicyMcHaggis
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How on earth could someone claim that places like OAKA, SEF and Heliniko are white elephants when those places are some of the most used arenas in Europe? PAO and Maroussi play sometimes up to 4 games per week in OAKA. Olympiacos uses SEF in same way and Panionios uses Heliniko... find me any other city in Europe (or world) that has 3 top clubs using 3 different high capacity and high quality arenas in such amount. Can't find it? Ye.. just what i tought.

Football stadium? Its used by PAO and AEK as their home stadium FFS. Does that even need an explanation?

This is just absurd...

Did that ignorant sad little reporter even check any data or he was just writing out of his ass?
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Old March 26th, 2009, 04:24 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH View Post
Mo's asking sensible questions; he's certainly not a troll. If YOU WON'T TELL 'IM the answers that's your problem.
Don't bother.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 04:28 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicyMcHaggis View Post
How on earth could someone claim that places like OAKA, SEF and Heliniko are w

This is just absurd...

Did that ignorant sad little reporter even check any data or he was just writing out of his ass?
Exactly. hence my questions regarding maintenance.
Perhaps venues have a few weeds outside or the pool is not perfectly clean.
Perhaps he is confused between the need for maintenance and the actual use of the venue.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 05:38 PM   #64
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OMG sorry Mo Rush we misunderstood your good intentions. You worry so much about Athens Olympic venues, we might even see you hunting down the rust off the Calatrava's roof, with a bucket of white paint in your hand!

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Old March 26th, 2009, 05:41 PM   #65
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OMG sorry Mo Rush we misunderstood your good intentions. You worry so much about Athens Olympic venues, we might even see you hunting down the rust off the Calatrava's roof, with a bucket of white paint in your hand!

Welcome to the ignore function.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 05:51 PM   #66
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here's a nice article from this week's edition of Sports Illustrated about the legacy left behind by the Beijing Olympics one year after.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...8404/index.htm
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 08:45 AM   #67
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Olympic Legacy is an interesting topic, as it is so different for each city with different needs. E.G zero hockey interest/tradition is somewhere like Athens, or Atlanta building an olympic stadium shaped like a Baseball diamond.

It's a shame the thread turned to shit.

P.S @ Mo, as to the original article, The Evening Standard are not really a trustworthy source, they probably still think there are WMDs in Iraq .... I was in London at the time, and IMO the ES were among the chief war-mongers with little interest in facts.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 10:54 AM   #68
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The thread turned like that cause its creation was provocative and aimed at a specific target due to the personal grudges of a member, who never the less got his answer.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 11:22 AM   #69
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I would say Munich is the prototype how to do it after the games, it was probably the most successful in using the venues afterwards: Not only that the Olympiapark is a landmark for the city, its still used for sport events (although the football clubs moved to the new arena), concerts and all other kinds of events. The Olympic village used to be a student residence for a long time.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 05:13 PM   #70
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I think the conclusion to be drawn here is that there is no such thing as a perfect Olympic legacy in which every single venue is used regularly after the games. Hosting the Olympics involves catering to such a large number of sports and building the venues to stage them that it would be almost impossible to find long term use for them all. The best that any one can do is find uses for as much as they can. I agree that many of the venues could/should be temporary even for fairly high-profile sports like equestrian and swimming (who needs a 20,000 seat swimming pool most of the time?). It's asking a lot to find enough well supported sports teams and events in one city to fill every single venue.

Athens has done the best it can to utilise its venues. The main sports in Greece are football and basketball and unfortunately neither of them require an outdoor beach-volleyball stadium or a diving pool.

The fact is that most Olympic sports are 'minority' sports that have very small supporter bases and finding something to put in, say, the fencing venue must be a challenge to any organiser.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 05:22 PM   #71
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I think that British media outlets like this are being overly confident that they wont fall under the same scrutiny come 2013.

London is being very careful to make sure that there is a use for the venues after the Games - probably planning better than any host city previously. While the Main Stadium plan to reduce the capacity from 80000 to 25000 after the Games has been ridiculed by some, I think its a genius plan that future host cities will look to use as a serious strategy when proposing Games venues.

Sydney was smart to incorporate the Showgrounds into Sydney Olympic Park, giving good long term use to alot of indoor venues (RAS Dome & Pavilions, Olympic Media Centre buildings) that if no legacy were planned, would be seen to be white elephants now. Acer Arena is used very regularly, the Aquatic Centre also, the Tennis Centre serves its purpose and the Hockey Centre made good use of temporary seats during the Games that it has not become a liability. Even so, Sydney Olympic Park is still suffering an identity crisis 9 years later. It is in a detached part of Sydney, not on the main suburban rail line and usually only full of people at Easter and Grand Final time. But in a nutshell, Sydney gained some much needed sports infrastructure that it wouldn't have seen even half of by now if the city hadn't won the Games.

From what I've seen, Athens isn't doing too badly. While legacy was not foremost in their mind when building the venues, they have caught up alot and many venues are used regularly 5 years later and the rest will come back into line.

There is too much emphasis from some quarters that architectural beauty is being set aside for functionality in Olympic venues. It's smart economics to avoid building an olympic venue just to be aesthetically pleasing. The London 2012 venues would appear to have form and function. We'll find out in 2013 if they got it right.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 05:26 PM   #72
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I think that's why it pays to build a large Convention/Exhibition Centre before you even bid for the olympic games if you don't already have one. That kind of facility can be split into numerous minor indoor arenas for all of the minor sports like Fencing, Judo, Table Tennis, Badminton, Taekwondo and Wrestling.

I can only imagine how much more expensive Sydney 2000 would have been if they didn't already have the facilities at Darling Harbour.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 06:46 PM   #73
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Its just important to start plannning for legacy from day 1 and to be smart about it.
Pump money into venues already in place that perhaps only need temporary works.

Use a cricket field for archery,don't build a weighlifting arena in a neighbourhood hoping it solves problems, build temporary venues where the cost is justified.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 06:17 AM   #74
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Even in China where Beijing just held the country's first Olympics and needs the facilities, the question of future use has popped up and the National Stadium (Bird's Nest) is likely going to be under-used in the long term. Perhaps the strategy should change whereby the IOC looks at using existing facilities and converting them for the Olympics instead.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 08:30 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Even in China where Beijing just held the country's first Olympics and needs the facilities, the question of future use has popped up and the National Stadium (Bird's Nest) is likely going to be under-used in the long term. Perhaps the strategy should change whereby the IOC looks at using existing facilities and converting them for the Olympics instead.
Yea but I do remember forum members bashing Athens for using an old stadium as a base of conversion to the new olympic. Oh and yes, all the OAKA complex was build in the 80s and 90s and guess what? It became the main Olympic venue center.... I guess even London could learn something from this extrordinary use of resourses that although was the best ever in Olympic history, everyone chooses to omit.....
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 06:52 PM   #76
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Yea but I do remember forum members bashing Athens for using an old stadium as a base of conversion to the new olympic.
It doesn’t matter what forum members think. We are of virtually no importance.

Their b!tching had no effect on those wonderful two weeks in 2004.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 10:48 AM   #77
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I really worry that hosting the olympics has simply become too expensive. London does not have a convincing legacy strategy and the white elephants that litter previous olympic sites demonstrate that it is exceptionally hard to find a meaningful use for such large venues. I wonder if we will reach a stage where we the olympics will rotate between three or four existing sites and the money saved can be ploughed back into sports development.
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Old September 8th, 2009, 11:00 AM   #78
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The legacy strategy is a work in progress but I don't think anyone can claim what we'll be left with won't be a huge improvement on the industrial mess and wasteland that was there before. A brand new park the size of Hyde Park for starters.
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Old September 9th, 2009, 12:51 AM   #79
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The legacy strategy is a work in progress but I don't think anyone can claim what we'll be left with won't be a huge improvement on the industrial mess and wasteland that was there before. A brand new park the size of Hyde Park for starters.
The problem is that the legacy strategy should have been developed three years ago before the facilities were designed. In this way the legacy would be built into the design from the start. As it stands they will just have to make the best of a bad job. And £9 billion for a park!
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Old September 9th, 2009, 10:42 AM   #80
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I said "for starters". Besides which, the current spend is more like £7.5bn

The legacy, in terms of archietecture, was built into the design from the start. The stadium is 2/3rds temporary, the aquatics centre likewise will have most of its capacity reduced after the games. The village will be housing and the IBC/MBC is modular and, although aestetically unspectacular, is quite flexible in terms of what it'll be able to house after games. The road networks, bridges etc. are essential and the cleaning up/widening of the river is a great thing. The biggest bridges in the park are also partially temporary precisly because leagacy was built in from the start!

The current head of the legacy team believes the current plan is 80% very good. So whilst I said it was a work in progress, I didn't mean it hadn't been thought about at all, just that the details are being worked out.
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