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Old February 17th, 2010, 09:24 AM   #2201
chenmani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelaturi View Post
Appears to be a very biased report, as well as comments from the judge. BIAL is definitely not a jatka stand. AAI should be ashamed of this report, after the wy they handled the show at HAL airport for decades, and are handling in other airports in India. BIAL may not be comparable to a Changi, but is far sperior to anything that the AAI hs come up with in the past 50 years. This is the problem with India. Neither will we do anything great, nor would we let anything great be done by other. Yes, the story of the Indian crabs is true indeed.
We should wonder why so many people say adverse things about this airport. And not make a big fuss on words like 'jatka' but focus on the core of the issue.

BIAL is not doing charity to India / Bangalore, they have come to make profit and have been given a HUGE concession in terms of monopoly, free land etc. Against which they committed to creating certain facility. Which, as all evidence now seems to show, has NOT been done. IT is not a question of NICE or not nice. A Tata NANO is very nice, no issues, but will you accept it if it was delivered in place of Mercedes having paid for one?

The comparison with Changi is not invalid as they charge UDF much more than Changi or HKG.

Comparision with AAI junkyards is valid from one perspective - as a non caring traveler. I agree 100% AAI is incompetent, corrupt and has done enormous damage to India.

But it is not valid from another perspective - AAI is OURS, ie owned by public. You accept old bedsheets, ordinary bed and power cuts, badly cooked food at home because it is YOURS, not when you are paying thru nose in a 5 star hotel.

That's BIAL, nice but built short. Forget what the judge says, can you honestly compare it with space and facility provided by any leading airport? To me it falls short of Colombo airport, forget Changi. Yes they deliver bags on time and is clean, but is that enough to be world class? Is that all they promised in the concession agreement?

That's what the Judge, IMHO is saying or should be saying...again forget about Jatkas and cow sheds.
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Old February 17th, 2010, 10:37 AM   #2202
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Originally Posted by bangaloremad View Post
One of the petitioners in the case, the AAI employees union, pointed out the inadequacies of the newly constructed airport at Devanahalli near Bangalore.
Pot calling the kettle black is the summary of this report.
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Old February 17th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #2203
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http://www.bengaluruairport.com/port...AL_ABT_PHASE_1

If what AAI says about BIAL claiming 6,300 capacity is true, then BIAL has to update its own website...they say 3000.

Quote:
On a footprint of eight acres of land, the terminal building is spread over 71,000- sq mts and built to comply with the peak hour demand of approximately 3000 passengers in peak hour,
Re. the 71,000 sqm and the claim of 11m, capacity, that is often quoted, here is the benchmark from Changi from their website:

Quote:
Terminal 1 : 280,020 square metres : 21 million passengers (FOUR TIMES the area, twice the claimed capacity)
Terminal 2 : 358,000 square metres : 23 million passengers (FIVE TIMES AREA, twice the capacity claimed)
Terminal 3 : 380,000 square metres Terminal 3 : 22 million passengers
Budget Terminal : 28,200 square metres Budget Terminal : 7 million passengers
http://www.changiairport.com/changi/...s/?__locale=en
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Old February 17th, 2010, 03:15 PM   #2204
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so going by Changi reference BIAL capacity is arnd 5-6 Mn.

where were our so called IT leaders when they were in the board of BIAL. ? Did BIAL construct airport in overnight ?

Little out of topic: Recent BETL elevated way is expensive compared to surface road as people can use surface road & reach ecity in 20 min (only saving abt 10-12 minutes ) provided
1. ground level trafiic is diciplined
2 bus stops relocated
3. one or two under pass required.
4. Service lane is clear of encrochments from temples & petty shops.

I hope same thing does not happen to so called UID project.
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Old February 17th, 2010, 03:27 PM   #2205
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Something for Indians to cheer about

Guys please cool down!

Few years back we fired two shots by starting two brand new international Airports, in South India and surely we hit both of them well.

BIAL is not as bad as it is made out to be and far better than old airport, just see response from users on this message board who have praised it.

Second shot, HIAL has featured among top 5 airports in the world and top airport among the 5 million to 15 million category.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/commuters...2.html?from=tn

So, let's just be happy for what we got and let's not over do complaining, although we should be demanding becos demanding more creates quality but complaining screws-up everything.

What can we do about exterior shape of the airport now that it is built? And honestly does it make any difference to the people using it or improve their experience?

Instead, we should concentrate on next terminal and take the feedback from the people especially those who are having the highest level of dissatisfaction, and make sure new terminal is truly world class and past mistakes are not repeated.

For god sake, let us stop talking about crab mentality of Indians and bashing AAI etc. We deserve better treatment and respect from each other. People might be complaining becos they might have had big expectations given that there wont be any other Airport going to be built in and around Bangalore in future for a long time. Another reason could be becos "it's Bangalore!", not just any other city so it deserve the best.
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Old February 17th, 2010, 03:57 PM   #2206
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I agree...there is a tendency in this forum to bash anyone that dares to criticise BIAL using all kinds of smear tactics as if they are against Bangalore or India itself.

Some of course, hit back by labeling pro-BIAL posters as practically in the pay of BIAL...

Both are bad.
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Old February 17th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #2207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nag123 View Post
so going by Changi reference BIAL capacity is arnd 5-6 Mn.

where were our so called IT leaders when they were in the board of BIAL. ? Did BIAL construct airport in overnight ?
Everyone, including us citizens including yourself and myself are to be blamed..each small step taken to fix that will lead to better things.
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Old February 17th, 2010, 04:02 PM   #2208
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Originally Posted by HydIndian View Post
Guys please cool down!

BIAL is not as bad as it is made out to be and far better than old airport, just see response from users on this message board who have praised it.
That's not good enough..let me re-post an example I posted in the thread I generally refer to as 'BIAL Halelujah thread' because it only allows singing praise and posting dancing bananas.

Quote:
If it is not clear enough, let give this analogy - you go to a Merc showroom and pay Rs.50L to buy a Mercedes. The salesman takes you money and gives you a Toyota Corolla. When you complain the manager says, this is a great car, this is a great car and certainly a lot better than the Tata Sumo you drove in when you came first to this showroom...
Many foreigners of course, praise BIAL because firstly they do not know about or care about what was promised vs delivered and whether in exchange for monopoly what India gained and lost...furthermore they expect any Indian airport to look like a slum and if it looks decent they get overwhelmed.

Last edited by chenmani; February 17th, 2010 at 04:12 PM.
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Old February 17th, 2010, 07:04 PM   #2209
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Irrespective of whether AAI is corrupt, inefficient etc, the report should be looked at on its merits, not by saying that AAI is worse or BIAL is better. What did BIAL commit to and what did they deliver? Why are they making absurd claims in the court?

I have used both BIAL and HAL multiple times, and no doubt BIAL is miles ahead of the old HAL airport. But the question is, did BIAL honor the contract fully and in good faith? There are quite a few shortcomings of the airport which have been listed earlier. Too crowded during peak times, the gates are too close to each other for wide-bodies, lack of proper toilet facilities and the list goes on.

Do we just sit tight saying that the BIAL is better than HAL or do we look at its shortcomings and try to make it better? Why do people jump on others when they complain about BIAL? To be honest, I don't care much about architecture too, let it be a big rectangular box for all I care. But the facilities provided should be more.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 02:21 AM   #2210
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May the truth come out, even if it favors BIAL.

The problem is the whole matter may be decided without talking to actual users, in a public hearing as in US...sad there is no 'BIAL users union'. AAI may make official noise but who knows what it may take to 'satisfy' a few key babus there? The court may also make some nice remarks that catch media attention, but find their hands tied looking at the water tight agreement that I am sure smart lawyers of BIAL 'persuaded' babus to sign.

What can we do? Is it possible to submit an affidavit in support of the AAI case with facts and comparisons and plead that it be included as evidence? will that lead to perpetual harassment of court hearings for next 20 years?

The only ones that cry in wilderness will be AAI union who will be easily dismissed as inefficient parasites that ruined HAL and brought disrepute to Indian aviation.

I wish this were Singapore. They would have used this violation of the agreement to invalidate the whole thing, turn the screws on the promoter and force him to agree to reopening HAL and end of monopoly, in exchange of non-prosecution.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 05:42 AM   #2211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravibg View Post
Irrespective of whether AAI is corrupt, inefficient etc, the report should be looked at on its merits, not by saying that AAI is worse or BIAL is better. What did BIAL commit to and what did they deliver? Why are they making absurd claims in the court?

I have used both BIAL and HAL multiple times, and no doubt BIAL is miles ahead of the old HAL airport. But the question is, did BIAL honor the contract fully and in good faith? There are quite a few shortcomings of the airport which have been listed earlier. Too crowded during peak times, the gates are too close to each other for wide-bodies, lack of proper toilet facilities and the list goes on.

Do we just sit tight saying that the BIAL is better than HAL or do we look at its shortcomings and try to make it better? Why do people jump on others when they complain about BIAL? To be honest, I don't care much about architecture too, let it be a big rectangular box for all I care. But the facilities provided should be more.

1. Initially we (some people + promoters) compared BIAL with worlds best airports.
2. Then we scaled down saying it offers more convience/ faster ...etc (When ppl started criticising abt looks)
3. Then people started comparison with SE's airport
4. Then India's best airport, South India's best airport
5. Finally with old HAL airport. (There is no doubt BIAL is better than old HAL airport )

Car example makes sense i.e one person (HIAL) getting merc benz & other (BIAL) getting Corolla for same money.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 09:29 AM   #2212
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For all I know , whats done is done - the old management has made a profit and run far away from all the criticism and the new management has taken over with some big promises and grand plans. The GVK management has a very good past reputation so I urge everyone to give it time.

As far as current BIAL terminal goes , the tangible aspects of it cannot be changed significantly so learn to live with it. Criticism is good but only reasonable criticism and if it is able to accomplish something.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 09:38 AM   #2213
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Nag123, that's the weirdest thing I've heard all day.

What's the deal about the looks of the airport anyway? I know: lets create a framework of curves around the structure, clad it in glass, add a few potted palms and voila, you've got yourself what most people tend to view as aesthetically superior in this country!

Did you ever stop to think that a Corolla (as boring as it is to drive) is a lot less problematic than a Mercedes E class?
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Old February 18th, 2010, 11:17 AM   #2214
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Thumbs up

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Old February 18th, 2010, 08:36 PM   #2215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chenmani View Post

If it is not clear enough, let give this analogy - you go to a Merc showroom and pay Rs.50L to buy a Mercedes. The salesman takes you money and gives you a Toyota Corolla. When you complain the manager says, this is a great car, this is a great car and certainly a lot better than the Tata Sumo you drove in when you came first to this showroom...
To continue on your analogy what if you actually paid only Rs.20L or whatever and then keep on complaining that you did'nt get a Mercedes , there are few who somehow feel they are entitled to get Rs.50L Merc for Rs.20L.

Now on a different scenario, lets say you have Rs.50L for a car and you want to buy a merc, then suddenly some govt/RTO babus decides they are entitled to get a share of your pie and threaten to cancel you driving license/registration,etc unless you pay them Rs.25L. Ofcourse with no choice you pay them and now with only Rs.25L left you are forced to compromise and buy a Toyota instead

Anyways kidding aside, you get the drift.

Last edited by Raichen; February 18th, 2010 at 08:42 PM.
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Old February 19th, 2010, 03:11 AM   #2216
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Yes, I get it..

whether the difference goes to RTO or the crooked dealer, at least we hope some educated independent observers (such as those in this forum) will agree that final customer has been short changed and not try to join the chorus of the spin gang trying to spin their way out by saying "Toyota is same as Merc., it is anyway better than Tata Sumo that you had earlier"

Hope you get the drift..

Last edited by chenmani; February 19th, 2010 at 03:17 AM.
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Old February 19th, 2010, 03:16 AM   #2217
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Originally Posted by zenith_suv View Post
For all I know , whats done is done - the old management has made a profit and run far away from all the criticism and the new management has taken over with some big promises and grand plans. The GVK management has a very good past reputation so I urge everyone to give it time.

As far as current BIAL terminal goes , the tangible aspects of it cannot be changed significantly so learn to live with it. Criticism is good but only reasonable criticism and if it is able to accomplish something.
Zenith, I agree. PROVIDED the new management also does not try to spin the existing terminal as 11m and then create another one which is supposedly 15m based on similar spin tactics. If they re-assess capacity and size to 4-5m and bridge the shortfall in T2 by making it genuinely intl class (I am NOT talking about glass, marble or chrome here, decent features and functions), then yes I will join the hallelujah gang and sing praise of BIAL.
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Old February 19th, 2010, 03:20 AM   #2218
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Re comparison with HIAL, I have only been there once, too short a time to observe in detail but here is some stats from their website:

Quote:
Terminal Area 117,000 sqm Peak Hour passenger Capacity 3,200
The area is 70% more, YET they are only claiming 3,200 not 6,300 unlike BIAL.
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Old February 19th, 2010, 01:03 PM   #2219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raichen View Post
Now on a different scenario, lets say you have Rs.50L for a car and you want to buy a merc, then suddenly some govt/RTO babus decides they are entitled to get a share of your pie and threaten to cancel you driving license/registration,etc unless you pay them Rs.25L. Ofcourse with no choice you pay them and now with only Rs.25L left you are forced to compromise and buy a Toyota instead
This is what crossed my mind repeatedly. BIAL being the first mover went through tremendous red tape, palm greasing etc. A whole lot of the greenfield airport legal framework was in place by the time HIAL got off to a start. Not saying that BIAL have entirely delivered...
With any major palm greasing affair there is a very strong deterrent to revealing the behind-the-scene details, and vested interest to make more un constructive noises.

It would serve the public good if we look at how best to resolve the stituation now to transform BIAL into a world beating facility which GVK seem to indicate in their ambitious plans. It is not such a long jump I feel considering that the major systems and facilities are in place and running smooth. It is the physical infrastructure that needs to be expanded and given GVK's progress with MIAL - things are looking up.

Maybe we can look at how the user's/ public's open interaction with BIAL can happen to make things more transparent from now on...
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Old February 20th, 2010, 06:27 AM   #2220
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HAL airport case hits air pocket again

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/5590207.cms

Hearing in the batch of petitions on reopening of HAL airport was grounded on Thursday as one of the division Bench judges — Justice V G Sabhahit — deciding to recuse from the case.

The hearing has been proceeding on a daily basis for two weeks, with the counsel for AAI Employees' Union making final arguments. On Thursday, a remark by the judge, referring to the work culture of employees who are union members caused a flutter, with the petitioners' counsel saying the judge was averse to them. On hearing this, the judge said he doesn't want to continue hearing the case and that the matter will be referred to the chief justice for setting up another Bench.

The petitions were filed in 2008 and have so far come up before seven division Benches, starting with one headed by then Chief Justice Cyriac Joseph.
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