Chelney

[tg1980]

Am I correct in thinking that the Tott Court Road station has been built with Crossrail 2 in mind ie huge ticket office etc?

I seem to remember reading they've done the same with the new Dalston Junction station on LO. Can anyone confirm this?

I was wondering if there will be any physical evidence of future proofing when the new stations are open.

[Bob]

I've seen it marked on as a ghost several times. e.g. here:-



compare it to this:-

and there are gaps in all the right places.

this shows (just) a second chunky tunnel from the western ticket hall going nowhere.


So in answer to your question, yes.

[Lucky Lukas]

Interesting there's only one dead end tunnel leading out. That means they're unsure whether they'll be addding another chunky tunnel at some stage for a NR profile line, or they'll fit twin tube platforms in the one tunnel, I guess.

[Sesquip]

The tunnel 'stubs' are for passenger access, not trains

[Lucky Lukas]

OK. Point irrelevant then.

[tg1980]

Thanks for all the info on TCR.

I personally think Ken and Boris's ideas for this start straight after Crossrail 1 are ludicrously optimistic. Especially as all the DofT cash will be going on high speed rail by 2017! It will be interesting to see what the Mayoral candidates say about it in the 2012 election with extremely stifled budgets. Personally I think this project, if it goes ahead at all won't start until the middle of the next decade at the earliest.

[flare]

tg1980, it hasn't been the Department of Transport for ages, it's the DfT, Department for Transport.

[kleinhond]

Originally Posted by flare

tg1980, it hasn't been the Department of Transport for ages, it's the DfT, Department for Transport.

[kerouac1848]

I personally think Ken and Boris's ideas for this start straight after Crossrail 1 are ludicrously optimistic. Especially as all the DofT cash will be going on high speed rail by 2017! It will be interesting to see what the Mayoral candidates say about it in the 2012 election with extremely stifled budgets. Personally I think this project, if it goes ahead at all won't start until the middle of the next decade at the earliest.

True, but the central government via DfT is funding less and less of London's transport network in a relative sense it seems. DfT is contributing about 30% of crossrail's budget and most of the tube upgrade appears to be borne by tfl and council tax payers. Then again, 30% is still a fair amount and unless there is a further devolution of powers from the centre we'll probably need a decent whack of central gov finance for CR2/chelney.

[flare]

Originally Posted by kleinhond

Are you disagreeing or is that face for being pedantic.

[kleinhond]

Originally Posted by flare

being pedantic.

Exactly.

[RBRJ]

Railway Herald is reporting, in its latest issue, that, produced in a partnership of DfT, TfL,& Network Rail have published the London & SE RUS draft for consultation. Among the recommendations are developing proposals for schemes such as "Chelsea to Hackney" underground line.

[Dobbo]

Originally Posted by RBRJ

Railway Herald is reporting, in its latest issue, that, produced in a partnership of DfT, TfL,& Network Rail have published the London & SE RUS draft for consultation. Among the recommendations are developing proposals for schemes such as "Chelsea to Hackney" underground line.

The Chelney/Crossrail 2 may well be required when HS2 is operational - certainly when phase 2 incorporating Manchester and Leeds is up and running. Glad to see that they are planning ahead for this.

To me, it makes sence (if it can be afforded) to build Crossrail and HS rail concurrantly. Then, you can roll the labour across from one to the other, retain expertiese and hopefully lower the overall cost.

Similar schemes in places like, Birmingham, Manchester would also be good so that the Airports, City Centres and High Speed Stations are integrated in a joined up system.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Dobbo

The Chelney/Crossrail 2 may well be required when HS2 is operational - certainly when phase 2 incorporating Manchester and Leeds is up and running.

Why? I thought Chelney was aimed at improving connections and journeys for SW and NE London - what benefit would it bring for long-distance travellers arriving at Euston?

[cle]

In the RUS, they hint that the Chelney route could be modified to serve Euston, for HS2 purposes.

Surely the Northern and Victoria lines cover this enough? Combined with incorporating the SSL from Euston Square into Euston tube? Otherwise it would surely need to run up TCR/Gower St, and be quite a duplication.

I'd prefer it to skip Kings Cross, if anyone could tolerate such a thing, and run TCR - one or two stations at Bloomsbury/Grays Inn Road/Exmouth Market and then Angel - Essex Road and onwards to wherever via Dalston/Hackney.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Dobbo

The Chelney/Crossrail 2 may well be required when HS2 is operational - certainly when phase 2 incorporating Manchester and Leeds is up and running. Glad to see that they are planning ahead for this.

Sorry I don't really understand the logic of this statement. From what I understand CR2 wouldn't serve anyway on the HS2 network, so how would it be required for HS2 to operate?

It is likely that similar (if much smaller scale) capacity enhancements on the local rail networks will be needed in central Manchester and Leeds to allow HS2 to operate. However looking at what's proposed for Birmingham, HS2 appear to be going for new stations with minimal impact on the existing rail network.

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

Sorry I don't really understand the logic of this statement. From what I understand CR2 wouldn't serve anyway on the HS2 network, so how would it be required for HS2 to operate?

It is likely that similar (if much smaller scale) capacity enhancements on the local rail networks will be needed in central Manchester and Leeds to allow HS2 to operate. However looking at what's proposed for Birmingham, HS2 appear to be going for new stations with minimal impact on the existing rail network.

I think they mean, as a means to handling the extra passengers who want to transfer to the tube. As Chelney passes close to Euston on its way to KX all it would require is an extra station. Once HS2 was built to Leeds and Manchester then there will quite a considerable crush at Euston tube station.

I suspect though they won't need to rush this through. With plans to divert substantial commuter flow via the Bakerloo line and Crossrail Euston will be able to cope for at least a decade on only a minor upgrade of the tube station. By the time the other sections are open then maybe some extra escalator shafts. Once they start running double deck dull length trains then maybe they will need an extra tube station for Euston.

[cle]

See my post above guys, they have mentioned diverting Chelney to Euston as a possibility in the RUS...

[jetsetwilly]

Does it have to be either/or? Couldn't Chelney run between Euston and Kings Cross St Pancras, with connections in to both, forming one massive complex - rather like Les Halles in Paris? There has already been a suggestion of a travelator connecting the two stations once HS2 arrives - this could pass through the middle. There would be duplication for the Victoria and Northern lines, but surely it would spread the load a little?

[Dobbo]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

Why? I thought Chelney was aimed at improving connections and journeys for SW and NE London - what benefit would it bring for long-distance travellers arriving at Euston?

The SW-NE London objective is one.

The benefit for Euston would be that it would relieve congestion from what is already a very busy underground station.