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Old April 27th, 2006, 07:16 AM   #421
rantanamo
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when did this thread degenerate to a pissing match.

FYI, anyone that thinks American football is a simple game for anyone playing is simply ignorant of the game. Example. I will be the free safety for this example. The offense while in the huddle, subs a reciever for the fullback. To me, that means new set of plays possible. With Fullback, I'm likely in cover 3. With extra reciever I'm in cover 0 or 4 depending on strength. The team breaks the huddle. Wingback and TE to my right. Twins left, single back. Strength = Roger(or right) to me. I'm in cover 3. If the team rolls to my right or straight drop back, I have deep middle. Linebacker underneath me. Likely the wing and TE will both run at me, with a RB in the flats. I am afraid of the the deep middle post from the other side. I have 5 seconds to figure this out. WAIT A MINUTE. The TE gets up and steps back, wing moves forward to cover the tackle. This is likely a run to my left. Wait, TE now motioning to my left. I'm now in cover zero( called cover 4 man by some). The RB coming out is my new responsibility if he comes to my side. I am also responsible for the deep middle again, though not necessarily as the Strong Safety slides over with the TE. I can call cover 3 again if I fear a wheel from the RB on the weak side(strength is now to my left). I also fear the TE seam now, and the inside twin running into my zone. I had about 5 seconds to figure this all out. Now comes the actual reading of the play. Ball snapped. TE stops and blocks back to my right. QB fakes to the RB and slightly rolls to my left. The wing, now a set end to my right is pushing the seam route. The recievers to the left are will likely run a standard cross. The inside reciever pushes the LB and cuts out. So I expect the other reciever to go deep or run a skinny post at me. If I'm a smart free safety, I just realized the play is designed to myself and the corner towards the right to move and look left. I've been taught through repetition to look away from the shifted strength. I should expect a wheel from the RB. Why wouldn't I though? Because 5 out of the last 8 plays, the opposition has run or thrown at their TEs side. Of those 5, they've thrown at the twins 3 times. They've tried to create a tendency. I should be smart and recognize the tendency, or the coaches above should. What should be the first thing I yell after, "motion, liz"? It should be watch the wheel or trap. I'm hoping my MLB(s) are looking at the same. I'd hate to leave that weakside linebacker trying to cover Reggie Bush out of the backfield one on one.
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Old April 27th, 2006, 07:28 AM   #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo
when did this thread degenerate to a pissing match.

FYI, anyone that thinks American football is a simple game for anyone playing is simply ignorant of the game. Example. I will be the free safety for this example. The offense while in the huddle, subs a reciever for the fullback. To me, that means new set of plays possible. With Fullback, I'm likely in cover 3. With extra reciever I'm in cover 0 or 4 depending on strength. The team breaks the huddle. Wingback and TE to my right. Twins left, single back. Strength = Roger(or right) to me. I'm in cover 3. If the team rolls to my right or straight drop back, I have deep middle. Linebacker underneath me. Likely the wing and TE will both run at me, with a RB in the flats. I am afraid of the the deep middle post from the other side. I have 5 seconds to figure this out. WAIT A MINUTE. The TE gets up and steps back, wing moves forward to cover the tackle. This is likely a run to my left. Wait, TE now motioning to my left. I'm now in cover zero( called cover 4 man by some). The RB coming out is my new responsibility if he comes to my side. I am also responsible for the deep middle again, though not necessarily as the Strong Safety slides over with the TE. I can call cover 3 again if I fear a wheel from the RB on the weak side(strength is now to my left). I also fear the TE seam now, and the inside twin running into my zone. I had about 5 seconds to figure this all out. Now comes the actual reading of the play. Ball snapped. TE stops and blocks back to my right. QB fakes to the RB and slightly rolls to my left. The wing, now a set end to my right is pushing the seam route. The recievers to the left are will likely run a standard cross. The inside reciever pushes the LB and cuts out. So I expect the other reciever to go deep or run a skinny post at me. If I'm a smart free safety, I just realized the play is designed to myself and the corner towards the right to move and look left. I've been taught through repetition to look away from the shifted strength. I should expect a wheel from the RB. Why wouldn't I though? Because 5 out of the last 8 plays, the opposition has run or thrown at their TEs side. Of those 5, they've thrown at the twins 3 times. They've tried to create a tendency. I should be smart and recognize the tendency, or the coaches above should. What should be the first thing I yell after, "motion, liz"? It should be watch the wheel or trap. I'm hoping my MLB(s) are looking at the same. I'd hate to leave that weakside linebacker trying to cover Reggie Bush out of the backfield one on one.
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Old April 27th, 2006, 07:39 AM   #423
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Very good example rantanamo.

I know that soccer has a lot of strategy as well, but American football is quite complicated at the collegiate and pro levels.

I would bet that there are people here that thought/think they just line up and then run down the field randomly trying to catch the ball or run the ball then just anyone comes up and tackles them...
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Old April 27th, 2006, 08:26 AM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLeuropefan
You are an idiot..... Have you ever even seen a game before???
Yes.

Unlike Americans, people from around the world have seen different sports.

I like America football, but it has nothing on Rugby.

And America-f-ball IS Derived directly from rugby. the forward pass was first introduced because they saw it as a way of bringing down the number of fatal injuries.
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Old April 27th, 2006, 08:27 AM   #425
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does it have to be a soccer field????
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Old April 27th, 2006, 03:22 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victory
Yes.

Unlike Americans, people from around the world have seen different sports.

I like America football, but it has nothing on Rugby.

And America-f-ball IS Derived directly from rugby. the forward pass was first introduced because they saw it as a way of bringing down the number of fatal injuries.
This is ridiculous. Why do you think Americans haven't seen different sports? America is a nation of immigrants. You can pretty much find any sport on the planet played somewhere in America. Not to mention, like the rest of the world, we have satellite, cable or FIOS television. I know its cache to say that Americans are dumb, ignorant fools, but when one says that, they are likely saying that about their own countrymen and their 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation American born children.

BTW, like this thread, your opinion about Rugby vs American football is just that. Your statement about why the forward pass was invented is ridiculous. The forward pass was merely a strategic invention. There was no rule against it, but after seeing it utilized by coaches like Pop Warner, it was utilized in the rule books in 1905.
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Old April 27th, 2006, 05:39 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo
BTW, like this thread, your opinion about Rugby vs American football is just that. Your statement about why the forward pass was invented is ridiculous. The forward pass was merely a strategic invention. There was no rule against it, but after seeing it utilized by coaches like Pop Warner, it was utilized in the rule books in 1905.
You might want to check your facts. The forward pass was one of several changes brought in at a meeting in New York in 1906 to improve the safety of the game, after Roosevelt had threatened to ban the game if it didn't sort itself out. The forward pass wasn't a safety innovation in itself, but was intended to open the game up and thereby reduce the attritional element that had become so prevalent.
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Old April 27th, 2006, 10:20 PM   #428
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The rules that were changed for safety were teammate arm locking between snap and whistle, and lining up in the wedge pre-snap. Teams would line up in a wedge, lock arms and blast through the defense, clotheslining opponents.

The forward pass is credited to Walter Camp(player that performed it in 1876), John Heisman(biggest advocate) and Bradbury Robinson, first to legally perform it. The story goes that Camp was performing a lateral that was very parallel to the line of scrimmage, and there was a huge debate on what to call. Coaches began to use this debateable type of lateral, as it was at times more effective than lateralling backwards a few yards. Once legalized, it was a fifteen yard penalty for an incompletion. Heisman was the biggest advocate for legalizing the play after seeing its effectiveness. This can be found in "Creating the Big Game" by Wiley Lee Umphlett. If it was not advocated as a safety innovation, then its not. I've never seen it mentioned as a way to reduce attritional elements, but rather, just as an effective way to move the football. At the same time, locking arms and wedge formations are documented as being called dangerous and needing to be eliminated from the original rules of Massasoit convention.

That's not the same thing as saying something was invented for safety. And my bad, I meant to type 1906.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 02:23 AM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victory
Yes.

Unlike Americans, people from around the world have seen different sports.

I like America football, but it has nothing on Rugby.

And America-f-ball IS Derived directly from rugby. the forward pass was first introduced because they saw it as a way of bringing down the number of fatal injuries.
Many people prefer the more free-flowing game of Rugby to Am. Football. Makes sense. But Rugby is not football without pads, football players are not soft just because they wear pads. Like I have said many times, Rugby players dont try to hit each other as hard as possible like football players do.

Personally I grew up watching football, I have never seen all that much Rugby because its just not shown much over here. I do try to watch other sports, but in the end I watch basketball and football more than other sports. I enjoy watching club soccer, but because of lack of exposure over here I cant follow it religiously like football and basketball, I also watch Formula 1. I dont know what kind of access those in europe and australia have to american leagues, but it sounds like you have more access to our stuff than we do to yours.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 02:44 AM   #430
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I am not quoting it because of space but rantanamo made a great a post and saftey is one of the easier positions, you could write a novel for a QB espically one like Peyton Manning....
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Old April 28th, 2006, 02:57 AM   #431
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Old April 28th, 2006, 03:13 AM   #432
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ok........
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Old April 28th, 2006, 09:10 AM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo
This is ridiculous. Why do you think Americans haven't seen different sports? America is a nation of immigrants. You can pretty much find any sport on the planet played somewhere in America. Not to mention, like the rest of the world, we have satellite, cable or FIOS television. I know its cache to say that Americans are dumb, ignorant fools, but when one says that, they are likely saying that about their own countrymen and their 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation American born children.

BTW, like this thread, your opinion about Rugby vs American football is just that. Your statement about why the forward pass was invented is ridiculous. The forward pass was merely a strategic invention. There was no rule against it, but after seeing it utilized by coaches like Pop Warner, it was utilized in the rule books in 1905.
Well for starters do you think more than 1/3 of the American population would know just how popular rugby or cricket are around the world?

Speaking to some Americans they hadn't the slightest clue that Rugby was anything more than an American 'niche' sport. And some think Gridiron is one of the worlds most popular.

Lots hadn't even heard of the Rugby World Cup, the 3rd largest sporting event there is.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 11:32 AM   #434
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This Rugby v American Football argument is nonsense. Both Games are like chalk and cheese, only the ball carrier can be hit in Rugby, everyone can be blocked in Football so the stress on players in Football is probably greater. Football is played on artificial surfaces in many places thus increasing stress on knees etc.. A ruuning back carrying the ball and a linebacker needs to be quite strong and no amount of padding will protect you against being hit by two 250 pound linebackers. Football is physical to the point of stupidity.

Rugby requires more thinking on the hoof, something the Southern Hemisphere teams seem to have mastered quicker than the Northern ones. There is room for improvisation in Rugby.

As for popularity, Rugby is only played seriously in the UK, Ireland, France, Australia, New Zealand and Argentina. The combined population of those countries is still less than the USA. And in South Africa only the minority white population is interested, the majority prefer Bafana Bafana.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 02:32 PM   #435
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Rugby is also, to quote Alphaville, big in Japan... And not inconsequential in Canada
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Old April 28th, 2006, 02:53 PM   #436
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Old April 28th, 2006, 07:13 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victory
Well for starters do you think more than 1/3 of the American population would know just how popular rugby or cricket are around the world?
Yes, I do. Most of that 1/3 you're speaking to likely are either from outside the U.S. or are at most 3rd generation immigrants. Even so, there is something called television. One can easily watch Rugby, soccer, Cricket or Aussie Rules Football.

Quote:
Speaking to some Americans they hadn't the slightest clue that Rugby was anything more than an American 'niche' sport. And some think Gridiron is one of the worlds most popular.
Some. Again, you're talking about the US. Do you think one opinion or though rules the day here? Its like when you read that "Americans think _______" That's a joke. You'd have a hard time agreeing on anything with your neighbors.

Quote:
Lots hadn't even heard of the Rugby World Cup, the 3rd largest sporting event there is.
If they haven't that's their own choice. How much do you know about the BCS or bowl season in general(probably is close in attendance to some of the bigger events in the world if it was counted as one) or Final Four?
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Old April 29th, 2006, 12:34 AM   #438
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Quote:
Isaac Newell]
Rugby requires more thinking on the hoof, something the Southern Hemisphere teams seem to have mastered quicker than the Northern ones. There is room for improvisation in Rugby.
There is plenty of quick thinking needed in U.S. football. Try to be a quarterback that has to check off his 3 of his receivers in 2 seconds to decide which is the best option and the best time to time a throw properly.


Quote:
As for popularity, Rugby is only played seriously in the UK, Ireland, France, Australia, New Zealand and Argentina. The combined population of those countries is still less than the USA. And in South Africa only the minority white population is interested, the majority prefer Bafana Bafana.
True, but the Afrikaaner population of South African is likely bigger then the whole of New Zealand no?
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Old April 29th, 2006, 12:41 AM   #439
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Rugby is for bummers. All those muscly posh kids rubbing each other up in the bath after a jolly good game!!
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Old April 29th, 2006, 01:08 AM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo
If they haven't that's their own choice. How much do you know about the BCS or bowl season in general(probably is close in attendance to some of the bigger events in the world if it was counted as one) or Final Four?
But college football and Final Four are purely domestic events. The Rugby World Cup is an international tournament.
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