daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas

Stadiums and Sport Arenas » Completed | Under Construction | Proposed | Demolished



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Do You like stadiums
Yes 154 96.86%
No 5 3.14%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 5th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #1761
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
you know in France we still have terraces (or almost ) in many stands, (like in Marseille, Lens or St Etienne)
Yeah i;ve noticed that, it's basically seats with no backs (sort of like plastic versions of the bleachers they have in america, it's the same in Italy. But you still aren't as packed in as free though are you?

Quote:
and the French league is going to allow German-style-terracing for some new stadiums (Lens, Valenciennes etc)
That's great news, all clubs should follow this!

Pictures?

New lens stadium? Or do you mean refurb?

Quote:
BUT the atmosphere is not better in these stadiums than at the Parc des Princes (all-seater: with unbreakable seats...), for example.
biased lol

Quote:
The problem in GB is that you are not allowed to do anything at all in your stadiums, AND due to the prices policy, there are no popular areas anymore (terraces or not) !!!
Exactly, different governments and opposition parties say they would look into bringing terracing back etc, but it's all words then it fizzles out for a few years.

The average age of fans in premier league grounds is over 45 now (iirc). There are generations of kids, teenagers, basically people under 25 who never have (regualrly) gone to games and only know the sport via TV. It doesn't bode well for the future especially when the last of the "old guard" start getting really old.

I don't want our stadiums to become like american grounds, full of only the middle aged and rich with the atmosphere lead by the PA announcer playing music. But that's the way it looks like it's heading, both Arsenal and Chelsea giving out scarves and flags before matches etc

London is such a crazy city, I can only imagine what Arsenal's "end" would look like if us real Londoners were allowed in regularly! For a start it'd probably look more cosmopolitan than our team on the actual pitch.
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 5th, 2009, 08:41 PM   #1762
en1044
Unregistered User
 
en1044's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,405
Likes (Received): 113

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
I don't want our stadiums to become like american grounds, full of only the middle aged and rich with the atmosphere lead by the PA announcer playing music. But that's the way it looks like it's heading, both Arsenal and Chelsea giving out scarves and flags before matches etc
Well hang on a second there.

Are you talking about Pro American sports or all American sports?
__________________
WASHINGTON REDSKINS
en1044 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 08:52 PM   #1763
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

of course pro... I know your college stadiums are full of rowdies, although at FSU it still sees to be PA led with the tomhawk chop tune!

But how many of your sports are your slum dwellers able to go to? College, pro or otherwise
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 09:48 PM   #1764
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
But you still aren't as packed in as free though are you?
Officially........NO.......But in fact many supporters/ultras groups are doing what they want in "their" stands . In Marseille, for example they manage the ticketing and especially seasons tickets (imagine) !

Quote:
New lens stadium? Or do you mean refurb?
About Lens, I meant refurbished indeed.

As far I know, the supporters of Lens and Valenciennes (especially those two) want to keep their terracing-style kops and especially with cheap prices. Since in France we have a "revolutionary spirit", they obtained what they wanted, at least in Valenciennes.
In their new stadium there will be a popular area with a different kind of "seats" (& cheap prices) in the centre of lateral stand (their popular tiers, like in Lens, have always been located where, normally, the most expensive seats are).

Quote:
biased lol
Nope, I tried to be objective with the pics and videos I've posted !!

Quote:
Exactly, different governments and opposition parties say they would look into bringing terracing back etc, but it's all words then it fizzles out for a few years.
Let me help you :

Boycott of the stands (at least the first 10 minutes of games) !!
Massive use of smokebombs/fireworks in order to penalize the club (PSG' ultras are professional in this "game" ) !!!
Strike of supporting !!!!!
Protest marches !!!!!!

etc

So the clubs will listen to you and the government/league/FA will listen to the clubs (in any case, in France it works like that and not only about football, as you already know )!!
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 10:02 PM   #1765
en1044
Unregistered User
 
en1044's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,405
Likes (Received): 113

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
But how many of your sports are your slum dwellers able to go to? College, pro or otherwise
Well not many, but i never really think of them as slum dwellers in the sense that other countries might.
__________________
WASHINGTON REDSKINS
en1044 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 10:37 PM   #1766
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

That's my point you're stadiums aren't diverse, and that's what i want ours to becoming

I was being specific to people from your country, we haven't really got slums as such over here any more. I'm talking the seemingly lawless innner cities in your country.
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2009, 10:56 PM   #1767
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
Officially........NO.......But in fact many supporters/ultras groups are doing what they want in "their" stands . In Marseille, for example they manage the ticketing and especially seasons tickets (imagine) !
What are the prices like? How do the clubs make income off there stands? Is it like ticket touts who buy tickets to sell on?

Quote:
About Lens, I meant refurbished indeed.

As far I know, the supporters of Lens and Valenciennes (especially those two) want to keep their terracing-style kops and especially with cheap prices. Since in France we have a "revolutionary spirit", they obtained what they wanted, at least in Valenciennes.
In their new stadium there will be a popular area with a different kind of "seats" (& cheap prices) in the centre of lateral stand (their popular tiers, like in Lens, have always been located where, normally, the most expensive seats are).
I'd always thought it was behind the goal... so you don't mean proper terracing then?

Quote:
Nope, I tried to be objective with the pics and videos I've posted !!
lol but PSG are still the best

Quote:
Let me help you :

Boycott of the stands (at least the first 10 minutes of games) !!
Massive use of smokebombs/fireworks in order to penalize the club (PSG' ultras are professional in this "game" ) !!!
Strike of supporting !!!!!
Protest marches !!!!!!

etc

So the clubs will listen to you and the government/league/FA will listen to the clubs (in any case, in France it works like that and not only about football, as you already know )!!
Yeah but the fans in the stadiums won't protest, they're the ones who can afford it and don't really care about the atmosphere.

Look at the Man United fans who boycotted the club when Glazer become owner, Man united just replaced them with more tourists.

We've got too many moaners who will just put up we things. We're not as militant as you guys, unfortunately... oh unless you work for the post office or London underground.
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 12:37 AM   #1768
KingmanIII
Registered User
 
KingmanIII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Killa City, Misery
Posts: 2,627
Likes (Received): 414

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
of course pro... I know your college stadiums are full of rowdies, although at FSU it still sees to be PA led with the tomhawk chop tune!
That's the band.
KingmanIII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 04:27 PM   #1769
nomarandlee
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
nomarandlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 1060 W. Addison, City by the Lake
Posts: 7,209
Likes (Received): 2761

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
I don't want our stadiums to become like american grounds, full of only the middle aged and rich with the atmosphere lead by the PA announcer playing music. But that's the way it looks like it's heading, both Arsenal and Chelsea giving out scarves and flags before matches etc

London is such a crazy city, I can only imagine what Arsenal's "end" would look like if us real Londoners were allowed in regularly! For a start it'd probably look more cosmopolitan than our team on the actual pitch.
Funny, I always figured that the scares and flags were a bit scary rowdy die hards. Makes more sense now.

I agree with you about the PA music, I love that my baseball team doesn't that (though most MLB teams do). The PA is way over implemented the worst in the NBA and NHL.
__________________
Stephane Charbonnier, “I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.”
nomarandlee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 05:32 PM   #1770
TXSkyWatcher
Registered User
 
TXSkyWatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Terrell...30 miles east of Dallas
Posts: 659
Likes (Received): 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
I don't want our stadiums to become like American grounds, full of only the middle aged and rich with the atmosphere lead by the PA announcer playing music. But that's the way it looks like it's heading, both Arsenal and Chelsea giving out scarves and flags before matches etc
Not sure where you got that idea....there are many more young folks than you think going to the games in our stadiums. Now the rich, well everyone has to be to go to Cowboy game now and get a good seat...I'll give you that one.
TXSkyWatcher no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 05:37 PM   #1771
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
Funny, I always figured that the scares and flags were a bit scary rowdy die hards. Makes more sense now.
Yeah when they bring them themselves, and they are spontanious. No greater sight than an end with lots of different flags and scarves swaying in unision imho.

Not when the club choreographs fan support, like Chelsea and Arsenal want to do, and have tried to do. When you see 40,000 or 60,000 people waving identical flags in unison it just smacks of corporatism and lameness. It's not football.

They tell us to sit down, they tell us what flags and scarves to sing, what next they'll tell us which songs to sing or to be quiet (even more)?

Quote:
I agree with you about the PA music, I love that my baseball team doesn't that (though most MLB teams do). The PA is way over implemented the worst in the NBA and NHL.
I really don't gget it, although I know you don't have a culture of singing at games. But is that because they never let you get a culture like that? Or is it that the PA announcers wanted to fill in the gaps in noise?
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 05:40 PM   #1772
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSkyWatcher View Post
Not sure where you got that idea....there are many more young folks than you think going to the games in our stadiums. Now the rich, well everyone has to be to go to Cowboy game now and get a good seat...I'll give you that one.
Erm I don't mean middle aged and rich. Middle aged and/or rich. The ticket prices and demand would suggest if you are outside of this demographic you are unlikely to be going to games regularly if ever.

Basically how many of those young people are from a lower class demographic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingmanIII View Post
That's the band.
ah
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 06:15 PM   #1773
nomarandlee
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
nomarandlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 1060 W. Addison, City by the Lake
Posts: 7,209
Likes (Received): 2761

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Yeah when they bring them themselves, and they are spontanious. No greater sight than an end with lots of different flags and scarves swaying in unision imho.

Not when the club choreographs fan support, like Chelsea and Arsenal want to do, and have tried to do. When you see 40,000 or 60,000 people waving identical flags in unison it just smacks of corporatism and lameness. It's not football.

They tell us to sit down, they tell us what flags and scarves to sing, what next they'll tell us which songs to sing or to be quiet (even more)?
I am guessing they deem some songs to be in "bad taste" or something? I think it would be hard for them control what songs are sung.

Quote:
I really don't gget it, although I know you don't have a culture of singing at games. But is that because they never let you get a culture like that? Or is it that the PA announcers wanted to fill in the gaps in noise?
No, I don't think there has ever been any kind of prohibitions against it of any sort at least that I know of.
I think the PA noise started with dead time between innings/quarters/periods during games in which teams felt they wanted to give entertainment and market to their fans. In the NHL/NBA especially they have convinced themselves that we are all completely ADD and need the biggest video boards and loudest sound effects in order to be entertained.
__________________
Stephane Charbonnier, “I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.”
nomarandlee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 06:29 PM   #1774
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
I am guessing they deem some songs to be in "bad taste" or something? I think it would be hard for them control what songs are sung.
well trhey are trying to ban the arsene wenger is a paedo song, they want to get rid of all discrimanatory chanting, and a lot of people don't like the abusive chanting although I find that exceptable if it's in jest (it's better to be abusive than insulting).

But it's basically a drive to create a glossy product to sell to the world, basically it all boils down to money.


Quote:
No, I don't think there has ever been any kind of prohibitions against it of any sort at least that I know of.
I think the PA noise started with dead time between innings/quarters/periods during games in which teams felt they wanted to give entertainment and market to their fans. In the NHL/NBA especially they have convinced themselves that we are all completely ADD and need the biggest video boards and loudest sound effects in order to be entertained.
Yeah there were quite a few reports about the NBA game in London (in our "quality" newspapers). Less so on the game more on the entertainment. They talked about juggling midgets and stiltwalkers.

It's just alien to us, it might be to with the whole customer/supporter culture. In america the teams see their fans as customers and do all they can to make sure they are enjoying it, in Europe we are supporters and the clubs don't do anything. I know when ever an owner/chairman/media call fans customers there is a lot of backlash, it seems it was always a "you know what time kick off is, if you don't turn up we won't miss you" sort of attitude.
When I watch the marketing of american sports I now see where the premier league gets it from.

isn't that why people like college sports, because of the authenticity?
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #1775
nomarandlee
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
nomarandlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 1060 W. Addison, City by the Lake
Posts: 7,209
Likes (Received): 2761

Yea, the college crowds just seem to be better. Part of that is because they often have a younger demographic are more affordable for the average fan.

There is more of a grass roots non-commercial aspect to most college sports but even with the cheerleaders and bands even college sports often have the accompanying entertainment. It is an entertainment which has more of a tradition and authentic, even if it can come come off as a bit hokey, compared to the commercial video/sound blitz .
__________________
Stephane Charbonnier, “I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.”
nomarandlee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 06:47 PM   #1776
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

the only "band" i can think of over here is the official England band, who go to all the games (I think they are wednesday fans). I know they are despised with their constant and annoying renditions of the great escape them tune.

Yeah the cheerleader thing i still don't get. A few clubs have them over here but they are usually a rag tag bunch of to put it kindly, women not blessed in the looks department. Although mexican cheerleaders....

Question... other than stand there and look pretty and do a dance what do cheerleaders actually contribute? Do people actually watch them every time they get up and do their thing?
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2009, 07:03 PM   #1777
nomarandlee
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
nomarandlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 1060 W. Addison, City by the Lake
Posts: 7,209
Likes (Received): 2761

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post

Question... other than stand there and look pretty and do a dance what do cheerleaders actually contribute? Do people actually watch them every time they get up and do their thing?
What greater virtue could be there then doing a dance and looking pretty? In short, not much else. I could do without them personally but they don't hurt any I suppose.

I would say the vast majority do not watch them in any length unless if it is real boring game and some of their are super hot. My football team (Chicago Bears) got rid of their cheerleaders in the 80's. In college sports they and the band are much more a right of passage you could say.
__________________
Stephane Charbonnier, “I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.”
nomarandlee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2009, 09:09 AM   #1778
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
and the clubs don't do anything.
Even selling season tickets of the "Virages" (behind-the-goal stands) in Marseille .

Quote:
Is it like ticket touts who buy tickets to sell on?
a kind of, but it's official !! (weird, but official) and, as far I know, only Marseille has such a system in France (where supporter associations sell tickets to other supporters... )

Quote:
What are the prices like? How do the clubs make income off there stands?
Marseille season-tickets 09/10, Virages (sold by the supp. associations): approx. €190/£170/$282 (Ligue 1+FA & League cups+Champions League)
By comparison: Other stands (except suites & business seats) : from €300/£268/$445 to €850/£759/$1262 (Ligue 1+FA & League cups+CL)

For example, here are PSG' prices (the most expensive in France/L1) :
Virages (20% of Parc des Prince): €275/£246/$408 (Ligue 1+FA & League cups)
Other stands (corner included, except "suites" & business seats) : from €410/£366/$609 to €1900/£1698/$2821 (Ligue 1+FA & League cups)


About how the club (OM) makes its income:
The club sells all the tickets of the Virages (priced by the club but after arrangements with the supporter associations) to these supporter groups/associations who become the exclusive sellers. Then these groups sell (with a profit margin of course) to the people who want to buy a season ticket in these stands/Virages (40% of Vélodrome: approx. 25,000 seats) !!!!!
That makes me think to Mafia/Camora... !
Marseille sells 42/45,000 season tickets each year and more than a half is managed by the supp. associations.....

Quote:
I'd always thought it was behind the goal...
It's quite unique indeed, and that's a characteristic of Lens and Valenciennes Kops/popular stands.

Lens:


Quote:
so you don't mean proper terracing then?
Well, they asked to their clubs (Lens & Valenciennes), which asked to the league, to have a "standing tier" and they will have it, apparently.. how exactly ??? I don't know, but IMO it will be like in Germany....

Quote:
lol but PSG are still the best
No comment !

Quote:
Look at the Man United fans who boycotted the club when Glazer become owner, Man united just replaced them with more tourists.
Not surprising ! (I knew about that and also about FC United)
Anyway that's the price to pay for being the most famous league in the world.....

In France, they could never replace the real supporters by "tourists"..... So that's also why our supporters can face public administrations/clubs etc !

-------------------

Quote:
unless you work for the post office or London underground.
I lived in London several months and I remember very well a strike in the London Underground.. I thought I was back in France !

Last edited by parcdesprinces; November 7th, 2009 at 01:17 PM. Reason: gue
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2009, 04:10 PM   #1779
parcdesprinces
churches & stadia/arenas
 
parcdesprinces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auteuil, Paris XVI | Quercy | Monaco, MC
Posts: 16,672
Likes (Received): 9684

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
so you don't mean proper terracing then?
About that, I forgot to mention Metz (L2) & Rennes (L1) which already have obtained "terracing" back (in small parts of their "Virages") !!

Metz:


Rennes:



About Lens :
Quote:
L’un des principaux enjeux de ce nouvel antre lensois concerne un retour aux places debout en tribune Marek. Sensibilisé sur l’aspect de la sécurité, Gervais Martel a réitéré son envie de faire avancer le dossier des tribunes rétractables comme il en existe déjà en Allemagne. Cette évolution est d’ailleurs intégrée dans le cahier des charges mis en place par les architectes. Si dans certains stades comme à Metz, Rennes ou Saint-Etienne, la situation a évolué ces derniers temps avec le retrait de certains sièges ; au Racing, on souhaite y ajouter une dose de modernité.

lensois.com
Essentially: The owner of RC Lens (Gervais Martel) said that he wanted "German style terraces" and (apparently) this is planned with the refurbishment of Stade Bollaert !!!
parcdesprinces no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #1780
Buffalo
Registered User
 
Buffalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 88
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Erm I don't mean middle aged and rich. Middle aged and/or rich. The ticket prices and demand would suggest if you are outside of this demographic you are unlikely to be going to games regularly if ever.

Basically how many of those young people are from a lower class demographic?
Another thing to consider is the size of the market, in the small ones, such as Buffalo, the average price for a game is about $50 while in Dallas and New England a game costs well over $100. I would say about half of the people at Bills games are 25 and under but there is not support for that.

and speaking of beautiful stadiums, the ralph isnt so bad on the inside, the outside is a different story.





__________________
Go Bills! Circle the wagons!
Let's go Sabres!
Buffalo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
glass

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu