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Old July 13th, 2008, 09:29 PM   #1
Coccodrillo
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Norwegian Subsea Road Tunnels

An article about them: http://www.tunnelbuilder.com/headlin...cription%2Basc

And a list: http://home.no.net/lotsberg/data/norway/sub.html

Thread about Norwegian highways: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=443589
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Old July 14th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #2
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Several massive projects being planned, among them the twin-tube 24-km Boknafjord crossing north of Stavanger. In the same area, the 13-km link (also twin-tube, apparently) to Ryfylke (east of Stavanger) will be built in a few years. Interestlingly enough, the road authorities have just started to get cold feet regarding future projects: the long and steep hills in tunnels going 250-300 (or more) metres below sea level, cause unnecessary high emission levels. So the "tunnel nation" might just be the "bridge nation" in years to come. Perhaps even the "submerged tube" idea will be ressurected, who knows?
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Old July 14th, 2008, 02:16 PM   #3
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C'mon Norway is a very mountainous country, and they're worrying about the emissions at a 300m altitude difference? Looks to me that they're using this argument to hide something else.
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Old July 14th, 2008, 09:59 PM   #4
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The fact that Norwegian tunnels are always collapsing virtually and having constant issues?
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Old July 15th, 2008, 12:02 AM   #5
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Why don't you include some pictures here?
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Old July 15th, 2008, 10:06 AM   #6
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Map of one Y-Shaped tunnel: http://www.tunnelbuilder.com/Finnfast_Map.pdf

Profile: http://www.tunnelbuilder.com/Finnfas...al-mapping.pdf

Another infos: http://www.tunnelbuilder.com/SINTEF_...tunnelling.pdf
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Old July 16th, 2008, 12:13 PM   #7
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i didn't quite get this thing...
norway builds tunnels cause they are cheaper than bridges or?
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Old July 18th, 2008, 06:22 PM   #8
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C'mon Norway is a very mountainous country, and they're worrying about the emissions at a 300m altitude difference? Looks to me that they're using this argument to hide something else.
It is serious, apparently. Emissions will now be added as a factor when selecting a bridge or tunnel solution.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 06:25 PM   #9
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i didn't quite get this thing...
norway builds tunnels cause they are cheaper than bridges or?
Yes, that has been the case. Tunnels are considerably cheaper, sometimes less than 50%. Of course, Norwegian tunnels have traditionally been built with far less safety equipment, concrete linings etc than what you'll find elsewhere in Europe.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 06:29 PM   #10
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The fact that Norwegian tunnels are always collapsing virtually and having constant issues?
What kind of issues are you thinking about..? The tunnel that collapsed, was not the cheaper drilled and blasted and not much more, but a more modern tunnel. But in order to save cash, they didn't do enough.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 05:39 PM   #11
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What kind of issues are you thinking about..? The tunnel that collapsed, was not the cheaper drilled and blasted and not much more, but a more modern tunnel. But in order to save cash, they didn't do enough.
It was a motorway tunnel, and they didn't have any experience building motorways, so that's probably why they did such a poor job

Do they even tender motorway projects? All (few) of them seem to be built by the state-owned contractor.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 05:40 PM   #12
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i didn't quite get this thing...
norway builds tunnels cause they are cheaper than bridges or?
And those few hundred people they build the tunnels for don't want a bridge because it ruins their view.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 08:10 PM   #13
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It was a motorway tunnel, and they didn't have any experience building motorways, so that's probably why they did such a poor job

Do they even tender motorway projects? All (few) of them seem to be built by the state-owned contractor.
A tunnel is a tunnel. Norway have built a lot of tunnels. Believe me, we do have the know-how. But with the new ideas of tenders and choosing the cheapest possible offers, quite a few shortcuts were taken to save money, particularly regarding geological surveys beforehand. Thus, a quite short tunnel through some of the most difficult geology in Europe turned into a scandal...

In part, this should answer your question: Yes, we do tenders. In fact, as members of the EEA we're not allowed not to.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 08:12 PM   #14
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And those few hundred people they build the tunnels for don't want a bridge because it ruins their view.
Well, in my opinion, an elegant bridge doesn't necessarily ruins a view. Especially a nice suspension bridge.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 08:36 PM   #15
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how many tunnels are there in norway? i really didn't know there are tunnels longer than 4-5km in norway... it seems like a very big project...
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Old July 19th, 2008, 08:39 PM   #16
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There are advantages in leaving nature untouched though, where possible.
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Old July 19th, 2008, 08:42 PM   #17
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how many tunnels are there in norway? i really didn't know there are tunnels longer than 4-5km in norway... it seems like a very big project...
They are uncountable. They have a 24km tunnel in southern Norway.
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Old July 20th, 2008, 01:15 PM   #18
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how many tunnels are there in norway? i really didn't know there are tunnels longer than 4-5km in norway... it seems like a very big project...
We might start with the world's longest road tunnel, the Lćrdal tunnel, 24.5 kms. A total of 30 Norwegian road tunnels are longer than 5 kms, 8 of which are subsea. A list can be found here:
http://home.no.net/lotsberg/data/norway/list.html

Altogether, I believe there are some 3000 tunnels on Norwegian roads, which apparently makes us the country with the most road tunnels in the world. However, very few of these are twin tube, the longest is the Nordby tunnel on the E6 south of Oslo at 3.8 kms.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 04:17 PM   #19
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Yes, that has been the case. Tunnels are considerably cheaper, sometimes less than 50%. Of course, Norwegian tunnels have traditionally been built with far less safety equipment, concrete linings etc than what you'll find elsewhere in Europe.
The reason is that Norway generally has very good geology (i.e. solid cliffs), and that most tunnels have considerably less traffic than in for instance central Europe. In fact, in Norway there are less accidents per km in tunnels than in open air.
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Well, in my opinion, an elegant bridge doesn't necessarily ruins a view. Especially a nice suspension bridge.
I don't know about many cases where the view has been a major factor in selecting a submarine tunnel instead of a bridge, except for urban areas like Trondheim and Oslo where submarine tunnels are now constructed despite of difficult geology (clay!) for exactly that reason. In most cases, however the cost and feasability are the major factors. Many fjords and straits in Norway are so wide and deep with deep layers of deposits on the sea floor that a bridge becomes very expensive, if at all possible. In most cases, ship traffic also has to be able to cross under the bridge, adding to the cost and complexity.

In addition to the mega-projects around Stavanger, various crossings of the Trondheim fjord (10-25 km depending on the route) and a new Oslo-fjord crossing Moss-Horten (about 15 km tunnel) is discussed. Both these projects, as well as the 25 km E39 Boknafjord project north of Stavanger, have these factors in common:
  • Relatively high traffic (on a Norwegian scale)
  • -> Two tubes/four lanes required according to safety standards
  • -> Expensive
  • -> Chance of approval nil with current government?

More about the various Trondheim fjord crossing proposals can be found here, and information about a couple of submarine urban U/C tunnels can be found here.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 04:21 PM   #20
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Many fjords and straits in Norway are so wide and deep with deep layer of deposits on the ground that a bridge becomes very expensive, if at all possible.
Yeah, but then again, how expensive would a tunnel be that has to descent 300m under the sea? You need huge ramps for that, all underground.
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