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Old October 5th, 2017, 02:35 PM   #6881
Maroon Grown
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Today at Helensvale station. Update pics regarding the Train station, Tram and Bus interchange redevelopment
Surely they are going to build a new chain link fence. Surely.......Probably not
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Old October 10th, 2017, 08:13 AM   #6882
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Surely they are going to build a new chain link fence. Surely.......Probably not
Doesn't look too bad except that the main building looks like it will be a nice wind tunnel.

I'm sure I sure in the original design that there will be a croc pit between both stations for those that want to cut across and not use the pedestrian overpass. Survival of the fittest....
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Old October 12th, 2017, 02:58 PM   #6883
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http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/...907e4b03c59d37
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Old October 12th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #6884
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Possible stop names?

1. Mermaid Park
2. Mermaid Beach
3. Nobbys Beach
4. Miami
5. Christine Ave
6. Burleigh North
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Old October 12th, 2017, 05:24 PM   #6885
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Possible stop names?

1. Mermaid Park
2. Mermaid Beach
3. Nobbys Beach
4. Miami
5. Christine Ave
6. Burleigh North
Basically agree, except "Nobby" Beach (singular) and North Burleigh (name is more common that way around as that part of Burleigh is already known that way, as opposed to being the northern station in Burleigh).

The SLSC at Nobby uses "Nobbys" or "Nobby's" for some reason, which is wrong. The name comes from the headland, which was itself named after a bullock called Nobby. (The more you know.)

I want the Christine Avenue stop plonked right between the Aldi and Miami One. The goal should be to allow the 765 to turn left onto the GC Hwy, then left at Mountain View, right onto Sunshine Parade, right onto Toombul where you would have the bus stop, then back to Christine Ave via the highway. Putting the stop there will also make it easier for the pissheads stumbling out of the Miami pub and the North Burleigh SLSC of course

Putting a mini interchange here will also let them restructure the mess that is the 756 into something more useful by connecting people to the highway corridor here, rather than sending them on a tour of every back street in Burleigh Waters, Miami and Mermaid.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 10:02 PM   #6886
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GOLD COAST General public transport thread (including Light Rail)

Thoughts on the number of stops? 7 stops in 6.8km, is it appropriately spaced.

Density along this segment of track is less then South Port to Broadbeach, and at this rate there will be over 25 stations between surfers and Coolangatta once competed.

Planning for walk up distance for local service like busses is 400m, for more rapid services like trains/metro it’s out to 1000m. With current spacing the densest portion of the route along the beach is averaging 400m walkup distances.

Are all those stations necessary or could it be rationalised to improve the longer term travel times.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 10:08 PM   #6887
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I'm a little confused. Are you saying it should be 1km average in between stations like proposed (assuming your 7 stations in 6.8km is accurate) or that they should be wider spaced to 1500m/2000m instead?
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Old October 13th, 2017, 01:45 AM   #6888
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GOLD COAST General public transport thread (including Light Rail)

6.8km from Broadbeach to Burleigh Heads.. 7 new stations plus Broadbeach equates to 850m between stations, when calculating walk up distance a person is going to pick the closest station, so even if they’re right in the middle of 2 stations they’re only going to be 400-450m away from a station. again that’s based on averages

There’s quite a bit of planing guidance out there now which recommends 1000m walk up for high frequency services, GCLR probably doesn’t fit that bill but I think you could justify pushing it out to 600m walkup, realistically making distance between the stations around 1200m. Which would equate to around 5 new stations not 7... mightn’t seem like much but similar guidance for the rest of the distance could be the difference between 20 stations Broadbeach to Coolangatta(400m walkup) or 14 stations Broadbeach to Coolangatta(600m walkup).

Now obviously those distances are based on running parallel to the track, but that it the most densely population portion of the GC.

I’m not advocating for either, rather posing the question to the group, but a a glance I think they’re too closely spaced and it could really drag out travel times for Coolangatta-Surfers Paradise in the future.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 03:56 AM   #6889
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6.8km from Broadbeach to Burleigh Heads.. 7 new stations plus Broadbeach equates to 850m between stations, when calculating walk up distance a person is going to pick the closest station, so even if they’re right in the middle of 2 stations they’re only going to be 400-450m away from a station. again that’s based on averages
It's not 6.8km divided by 8, since that includes Broadbeach South itself, which is station #0 for the purpose of calculation.

The 6.8km comprises of 7 gaps between one station and another. Which gets you 970m between stations on average. If you check Google maps, some gaps already are 1000m.

About 3 years ago I walked the length of it, and some of my thoughts changed as I saw it first hand (I've posted my photos of that walk on this thread a couple of times). As it turns out, what I came up with after that walk is just about spot on with what's now planned to happen.

If you had gaps of 1200m, you'd end up needing to retain a bus along the same route. Aside from which, the stations would end up at odd locations rather than the business / retail trip generators which most of the stations are planned to be at.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 05:17 AM   #6890
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Like I said, plenty of transport planning out here which recommends up to 1000m walk up distance for high frequency transport services... less frequent and lower capacity recommended like busses are recommended a 400m as an ideal distance.

A gap of 1200m is still only a 600m walkup distance.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 05:19 AM   #6891
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....if you're adjacent to the tracks.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 05:38 AM   #6892
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1st stop: retail and village centre.
2nd stop: fastest access for those accessing from the West of the canal, significantly reducing walking distance.
3rd stop: if you locate it too close to MSHS, you reduce the nearby density opportunity.
4th stop: as per the previous stop. This is also 1.3km from the previous.
5th stop: I assume this will be closer to 6th avenue as there would be a desire to provide access to Christine Avenue. The thinking would be also about whether a future tram line would operate along Christine Avenue and that would likely push it further north.
6th stop: taking advantage of the density uplift potential along the strip. Also, the West Burleigh intersection is horrible and adds on a significant perception of time and distance.
7th stop: obvious town centre stop.

I'd be interested to know which stops you'd remove and how you'd shift the adjacent stops. This is important as if you'd move any of them, you may find your catchment decrease far faster than the distance you move the stop.

Also, keep in mind that major side streets allow you to have interchange bus stops on the side street that will have less impact on the corridor if it gets tight.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 06:13 AM   #6893
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Operating on a fairly generous planning design I think it’s feasible to get rid of the 4th stop and move the 5th stop slightly north adjacent to Miami One Shopping Centra and the 3rd stop slightly south slightly closer to Miami High.. It can still serve as an interchange for busses or future lightrail heading up Christine Ave
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Old October 13th, 2017, 07:21 AM   #6894
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Whilst I agree that these are the two less preferred locations, by taking out only one station and moving one, doesn't really improve the whole situation with all the other stations still the same distance apart. I guess this was my point. The nodes and geography have pretty much fixed the stations.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 08:36 AM   #6895
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GOLD COAST General public transport thread (including Light Rail)

Yes and it makes sense to align themselves to shops/major junctions, but my point is that they risk blowing out the journey time if they maintain similar planning principles for the entire length too Coolangatta.

While it’s nice for every little locality along the route to have a Station, it risks compromising the viability long term if they develop too many.

Concept below only features 5 new stations whilst still hitting all the major junctions/potential bus interchanges based on a 800m walkup planning distance.

Broadbeach Station
-1600m-
Makeri St Station
-1600m-
Miami State High/Pacific Ave
-1500m-
Miami One Shopping Centre/Christine Ave
-500m-
Deodara Dr
-1000m-
Burleigh Heads Station
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Old October 13th, 2017, 09:33 AM   #6896
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Once again I stress, that 800m catchment is only if you are next to the tracks. The corridor is unique due to the hard constraints on both sides. If you ran with that stop spacing I guarantee you will need to also parallel with buses which, IMO, would kill it's viability.

On a clean grid with no constraints, I feel that light rail stops should be up to 1500m away from each other, however this isn't a clean grid and there definitely is constraints.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:02 AM   #6897
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Yes i know the walk-up catchment is only that parallel to the line and stations, the catchment along Mermaid Beach is constrained by the Canal running parallel, hence why the stations are located at road junctions. In the space between those east running roads, the catchment extends no further 200m east to the beach or west to the canal. Which leaves a very small percentage of the catchment sitting at 1000m from a station, still an acceptable planning distance for high frequency public transport.

The stations i proposed further South along Miami and Burleigh, are aligned to better suit the walk up catchment extending to the west.

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On a clean grid with no constraints, I feel that light rail stops should be up to 1500m away from each other, however this isn't a clean grid and there definitely is constraints.
Based on this comment, how do you justify the proposed station between Ventura St and Dudley St.. There are no major roads linking it further to the west, the catchment area is extremely narrow due to the canal and its based on a relatively clean grid of roads, there is another station proposed 750m to the south and 750 to the north, i.e 1500m away from each other. This station makes little sense to me, it will mean as little as a 300m walk-up distance between stations based on where exactly they build it.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:11 AM   #6898
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I justify it based on quite a large local community that would die without it. Quite often the first station away from a major interchange can have a closer stop spacing.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #6899
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I justify it based on quite a large local community that would die without it. Quite often the first station away from a major interchange can have a closer stop spacing.
You really think the community is going to die because they have to walk 750m to a major transport interchange? You literally just said you think stations should be 1500m away from each other, that station is your perfect example of where it could happen with minimal impact on the wider catchment.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:41 AM   #6900
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Originally Posted by TOCC View Post
Yes and it makes sense to align themselves to shops/major junctions, but my point is that they risk blowing out the journey time if they maintain similar planning principles for the entire length too Coolangatta.

While it’s nice for every little locality along the route to have a Station, it risks compromising the viability long term if they develop too many.

Concept below only features 5 new stations whilst still hitting all the major junctions/potential bus interchanges based on a 800m walkup planning distance.

Broadbeach Station
-1600m-
Makeri St Station
-1600m-
Miami State High/Pacific Ave
-1500m-
Miami One Shopping Centre/Christine Ave
-500m-
Deodara Dr
-1000m-
Burleigh Heads Station
The logic of the current stop spacing is to maximise the walkable catchment of the corridor while trading off against stops spaced too close together. The above throws that out the window.

If anything, I would not have an issue with 9-10 stops between Broadbeach and Burleigh. Tramways operating with decent discipline (which the G: has now proved it has after 3 years) should be able to get up to around 30km/hr with 500-600m stop spacing and on-road priority. With only 7 stops, I would expect a journey time of something like 13-14 minutes and no greater from BBS to Burleigh.

The current stretch travels through the 2 densest sections of the alignment in Surfers and Southport, and consequently the stops are at around 400m intervals in these precincts - which is balanced out by the longer intervals in between, which are mostly covered by adjacent bus services (mainly thr 705). South of Broadbeach, the only area where you will probably have a similar arrangement that I can see would be in and around Coolangatta, and even then that depends on just how far it actually runs once you hit the Griffith St precinct.

With somewhere just north of 40 route km from Helensvale to Coolangatta, I expect a total end to end journey time of around 85-90 minutes. You don't need to rip out so many stops to achieve that.
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