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Old March 13th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #1501
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Originally Posted by crazyknightsfan View Post
I do see where you're coming from Surfrail and I'm inclined to agree. I still don't like the aspect of no anchor at the western end but do see the big benefit in travel time. The Helensvale-Harbour Town-Labrador-Southport high frequency bus proposed in the plan above will complement it nicely.

Hopefully Gold Coast trains are frequent enough to make connections as convenient as possible.
It's not immediately obvious in the plan but they want limited stations to Brisbane and all stations to Beenleigh to cover all the infill stations, so the combined stations would be busier ones with 4tph (if not exactly 15 minute frequency it would still be reasonably close).

The extension to Parkwood is analogous to a Mandurah or Joondalup option - it just happens to work for the particular application but is not something you would want to standardise. Overwhelmingly the rest of the system is high-density and this is just the end. Griffith is ultimately the anchor at the top of the line with a little bit jutting out.

Given that there is going to be a shunt adjacent to Olsen Avenue at the end of the line, you could probably just do something like run only every second tram there except when it's really busy and there are more trains on (special events), which gives you a normal 15 minute frequency into the sticks as opposed to 7.5min.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #1502
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Would it be viable to send the line Via Napper Rd to Parkwood?
The grades on Napper Rd are nowhere near as easy to negotiate as Smith St which is pretty much flat with a bit of earthworks and/or bridging needed. You could probably do it, but the main point of the line would be the connection to the railway rather than picking up a local market. I'd say it would be too expensive to make it work.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 03:45 PM   #1503
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That's exactly what I was thinking. It would only be for local access and not the main point of building the extension. Facilities would be bog standard - shelter and a go card reader/AVVM, and that's it.
and a bridge over the motorway?
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Old March 13th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #1504
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It's more like a Main Road there. The Pacific Motorway would be on the Western side of all of the rail.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #1505
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and a bridge over the motorway?
Somewhere around this bit I'd say:



I don't have the 2004 Parsons Brinckerhoff stuff anymore but it would have looked fairly similar because this was meant to be the end of the line under that study.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #1506
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^ I'm talking about the Arundel residential station - a bridge would be desirable across the motorway to allow access to/from Ernest
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Old March 13th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #1507
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Ah ok. Adds to the expense of a station that would rarely be used.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #1508
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^ I'm talking about the Arundel residential station - a bridge would be desirable across the motorway to allow access to/from Ernest
Don't know if you would really bother with that. It's solely industrial and (surprisingly) they are still keeping a bus running here - probably because it is still a convenient terminus for the new route. (Most Surfside routes are actually anchored by shopping centres, unis and/or rail stations at both ends, this is one of the exceptions.)

It's an established estate too, so you won't have a single developer willing to pay for it.

The resi area in Molendinar is going to have a direct bus to Griffith Uni under the proposed changes by diverting the existing bus that just goes along Southport-Nerang Rd and turns onto Olsen Ave.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #1509
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Yeh it's high cost, low benefit, a legacy of the terrible urban planning on the Gold Coast for the last 50 years. Most of these estates will never be anything other than car dependent
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Old March 13th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #1510
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Yeh it's high cost, low benefit, a legacy of the terrible urban planning on the Gold Coast for the last 50 years. Most of these estates will never be anything other than car dependent
The really early canal estates are actually fairly permeable (especially around Broadbeach). When you combine canals with cookie-cutter shapes and not even some basic pedestrian bridges it gets really demented though.

To their credit, GCCC is trying to fix this up by planning for lots of little green bridges for pedestrians and cyclists, but it doesn't solve the permeability issue for public transport or even just the fact there are so many chokepoints for cars.

It helps that the City Transport director and his team at GCCC is very good - pro-cycling, pro-PT, pro-rail etc. I have had very productive discussions with them about where things are going.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 03:03 AM   #1511
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then run in reserve between this point and the Parkwood heavy rail station site along the western side of Olsen Ave and northern edge of Smith St, maybe with an overbridge to get it to the station site. The intersection where it comes off the existing line is the only interface there needs to be with traffic, building or anything else - rest is just bush.
Your idea of alignment is a great one. If only Goldlinq can get to TMR on this before they build on it. North of Smith St is by far the cheapest idea compared with the southern alignment the project originally was proposed for (see footbridge linking main campus with health sciences).

There is a harebrained scheme for a third eastbound lane along Smith St to Olsen Ave. This includes an upgrade of the existing 'interchange' (2 traffic lights and an overbridge hardly constitute a real interchange - purpose of Olsen Ave has been corrupted downwards over the decades something shocking) with the northbound off-ramp using the powerline easement that you have earmarked for the light rail. The interchange upgrade is featured in an advertisement in last weekend's GCB - TMR have received zero comments so far.

It is another legacy of Bligh/Beattie Govt over-engineering/gold plating (they claim it's needed for the hospital). In line with over-engineering/gold plating, it also needs nanny-state treatment, the speed limit is to be reduced eastbound to 90 km/h - this is madness, the 90 km/h limit as you exit the M1 has never been consistent with guidelines considering the run on/off lanes are up to standard (for the year 2000 completion date). Will new DG Scales have the knowledge and guts to cancel this project? Probably not. I'll save my thoughts on TMR's thrice over DG disasters for another thread.

So Surfrail, yes, please, let's all campaign for Goldlinq's extension on your alignment and save TMR the money and stop wasting the state's money on unecessary road projects with nanny state treatment. The only reason the third lane & interchange upgrade has not happened is because the TMR South Coast office has been in disarray for years (remember their gripe about a sign on private land on the M1, that was the decoy) and they 'missed' the fact the project needed Federal Environment Dept Minister's clearance due to koalas.

PS. try explaining this road debacle to a journo locally, a simple story yet their eyes glaze over.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 03:27 AM   #1512
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All the proposed lines are in the Council's new transport strategy.

Oh no! The heavy rail line in the draft strategy was to go to Elanora, now they've even scrapped that.

Could the line be built to the airport by the 2018 Comm Games? Let's do it.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 08:49 AM   #1513
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Oh no! The heavy rail line in the draft strategy was to go to Elanora, now they've even scrapped that.

Could the line be built to the airport by the 2018 Comm Games? Let's do it.
Bastards. Varsity is in the middle of friggin nowhere and Coolangatta is a logical destination for the line. Tweed Heads even more so.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 02:43 PM   #1514
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It's not immediately obvious in the plan but they want limited stations to Brisbane and all stations to Beenleigh to cover all the infill stations, so the combined stations would be busier ones with 4tph (if not exactly 15 minute frequency it would still be reasonably close).
I appreciate the 'foaming' of the GCCC, but for their dream of two tiered services to be a reality, the number one transport infrastructure item needed is duplicating Coomera to Helensvale.

Wander down the outbound platform at Nerang, there's an infuriating A3 poster that's lasted quite a few years now that promises this duplication as if it was soon to happen back then. Still waiting and we will wait for many years I feel.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 02:53 PM   #1515
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Bastards. Varsity is in the middle of friggin nowhere and Coolangatta is a logical destination for the line. Tweed Heads even more so.
Elanora makes the most sense if you don't have as much money to play with. The LRT and HRT corridors are spitting distance from each other here so you can have your southern interchange here. The train line south of here is basically just a faster way of getting to the airport - they worked out the BCR is about 6 times greater if you just build the LRT south of here as opposed to the train. Obviously both are desirable though because they serve different markets better, but the train is mucho expensivo.

The thing I hate most is the preserved heavy rail corridor into the airport itself, which sucks the big one.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #1516
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Elanora makes the most sense if you don't have as much money to play with. The LRT and HRT corridors are spitting distance from each other here so you can have your southern interchange here. The train line south of here is basically just a faster way of getting to the airport - they worked out the BCR is about 6 times greater if you just build the LRT south of here as opposed to the train. Obviously both are desirable though because they serve different markets better, but the train is mucho expensivo.

The thing I hate most is the preserved heavy rail corridor into the airport itself, which sucks the big one.
Yes, it inconveniences nsw without serving it. I'd rather a conventional north south alignment, with the option of continuing into nsw. I know they argued about the tugun bypass and that thinking appears to have infected here, but a station in tweed as well as one at the airport would be good.
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Old March 15th, 2013, 11:40 AM   #1517
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Robina saw a massive decline in patronage when Varsity Lakes opened. Anyone who currently wants to use the Gold Coast line can due to the massive amounts of car parks the line has. Extending the line further south is a very low priority. Also duplicating the line between Coomera and Helensvale is pointless without CRR.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:56 AM   #1518
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Robina saw a massive decline in patronage when Varsity Lakes opened. Anyone who currently wants to use the Gold Coast line can due to the massive amounts of car parks the line has. Extending the line further south is a very low priority. Also duplicating the line between Coomera and Helensvale is pointless without CRR.
I agree with your point regarding CRR, but I disagree that there is an oversupply or car parks on th GC line.
Varsity Lakes is always overflowing
Robina is almost full (90-95%) on days when the top level is open. On game days, it's hopeless.
Nerang is less full, but much more than a few years back. The eastern car park has always filled out, but when I lived in Nerang and travelled to Brisbane for uni and work (2006-2012), I always parked in the western car park, which in 2006 used to occasionally get to 50% full, but last year would regularly be 80% to 85% full. Overall 90% for the whole station.
Helensvale regularly overflows into Westfield's car parks
Coomera is similar to Nerang, 80-90% full.
Ormeau is much smaller, but again roughly 75% full.

So most of the stations are pretty packed out, and while it would be better to improve feeder services to some stations, I think that in the absence of a southern extension, the car parks should be upgraded at:
Varsity Lakes - multi storey on existing narrow car park beside line
Nerang - multi storey car park at rear of western park to allow for redevelopment of land fronting Warrener St. Increase capacity and reduce visual impact of the car park
Parkwood - massive new car park with new station to effectively do to Helensvale what Varsity Lakes did to Robina. Remove a significant proportion of catchment and patronage. May allow some redevelopment of some car parks at Helensvale.
Ormeau - has long been planned for a massive new park and ride, but again, pointless until you build CRR because driving from there in peak can still beat the train.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 04:54 AM   #1519
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This GC Light Rail is the first time a modern LR line has been built in Australia, isn't it? (Not including touristy lines like in Sydney, extensions like Adelaide or Melbourne's ye olde system).

It'll be interesting to see what effect it has on the psyche of people. It could give rise to construction of new systems in other parts of the country.
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Old March 16th, 2013, 05:10 AM   #1520
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wouldnt you say it already has, with Sydney planning on doing it properly through the city and southeast and Perth's planned network?
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