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Old April 9th, 2010, 09:22 PM   #301
Davodavo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlasgowMan View Post
No.

British Airways only fly to/from London. 70% of Britain's live out with the London area.

Virgin Atlantic fly from London, Glasgow and Manchester; Britain's three biggest air hubs. By flying from these three cities, it gives Virgin far greater coverage of the whole United Kingdom. London for the South, Manchester for the middle and Glasgow for the North.
Maybe that's why British Airways is much bigger.

As far as I know British Airways operates in all these cities to London Heathrow/Gatwick where flight connections are available and easy to get through.

Quote:
Virgin Atlantic have the contract to fly the Queen and all other members of the Royal Family on official state visits.

Virgin Atlantic have the contract to fly the British Prime Minister on all official state visits.

Virgin Atlantic have the contract to fly the England national football team for all International football matches.
The decision to no longer provide that services has been adopted by British Airways itself, owing to financial issues. However I agree with you in the fact that the national carrier should be the company responsible for all that staff.

Quote:
This all equals one thing; Britain's National Flag Carrier = Virgin Atlantic!
I don't think so.

(Sorry for my English).
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Old April 9th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
Maybe that's why British Airways is much bigger.
The only reason British Airways is bigger is because they have been around allot longer than Virgin Atlantic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
As far as I know British Airways operates in all these cities to London Heathrow/Gatwick where flight connections are available and easy to get through.
Yes you can fly from Manchester or Glasgow with BA if you go via London, but you can also fly worldwide with one-stop from Glasgow and Manchester by using KLM, Air France, Emirates, American Airlines, US Airways and other international carries. So

So despite being “British” they offer Glasgow, Manchester and other cities as much global connectivity as an airline based in the Middle East or the United States.

Ask the people of Glasgow and Manchester if they would rather A) fly to your destination with BA by changing flights in London or B) fly direct from your local airport with another airline. You will get an overwhelming response for option B.

There is big demand for international flights from Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham. If British Airways chose to ignore this, which they are, then the people of these cities will ignore British Airways, which they are.

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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
The decision to no longer provide that services has been adopted by British Airways itself, owing to financial issues. However I agree with you in the fact that the national carrier should be the company responsible for all that staff.
Sorry but this is not true. British Airways lost the contract to fly to British Royal Family, British Airways lost the contract to fly the British Prime Minister and British Airways lost the contract to fly the England National Team.

British Airways did not choose to stop any of these services!

Virgin Atlantic won the contract to fly to British Royal Family, Virgin Atlantic won the contract to fly the British Prime Minister and Virgin Atlantic won the contract to fly the England National Team.


ps, your English is perfect.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by GlasgowMan View Post
Yes you can fly from Manchester or Glasgow with BA if you go via London, but you can also fly worldwide with one-stop from Glasgow and Manchester by using KLM, Air France, Emirates, American Airlines, US Airways and other international carries. So

So despite being “British” they offer Glasgow, Manchester and other cities as much global connectivity as an airline based in the Middle East or the United States.

Ask the people of Glasgow and Manchester if they would rather A) fly to your destination with BA by changing flights in London or B) fly direct from your local airport with another airline. You will get an overwhelming response for option B.

There is big demand for international flights from Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham. If British Airways chose to ignore this, which they are, then the people of these cities will ignore British Airways, which they are.
Well, of course, there's no doubt that you are completely right.

The thing is:
I believe that British Airways has already operated international flights from some of those airports.
Certainly, they know whether they are profitable or not, and if they have closed them I guess that it was either because they were not profitable or because they wanted to concentrate of more profitable routes.
Whatever the reason was, BA is not an state-owned company, and therefore, what they have to go after is profit.

I also think that if I asked you what the national carrier of France is, you would answer Air France (same with Madrid&Iberia, though IB will soon be controlled by BA).
Once again, both of them have to focus on one city only, in which to create a hub and go after profit (once again).

I would also like to add that I am the first one to admit that BA should reconsider their position but I also understand that they do whatever is more profitable.

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Sorry but this is not true. British Airways lost the contract to fly to British Royal Family, British Airways lost the contract to fly the British Prime Minister and British Airways lost the contract to fly the England National Team.

British Airways did not choose to stop any of these services!

Virgin Atlantic won the contract to fly to British Royal Family, Virgin Atlantic won the contract to fly the British Prime Minister and Virgin Atlantic won the contract to fly the England National Team.
I said that because I recently read somewhere, a British Airways spokesman saying they had decided not to operate those services. I'll try to find it, and post it here.

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ps, your English is perfect.
Thank you very much.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #304
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Here, I found it:
Quote:
A BA spokesman said the airline had turned down the chance to be the official carrier.
“We declined the opportunity to become the official airline of the England football team as the cost could not be justified in the current climate,” he added.
“We wish the team well and look forward to flying thousands of customers who have already booked their flights with BA to South Africa.”
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...ficial-airline
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Old April 9th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
Well, of course, there's no doubt that you are completely right.

The thing is:
I believe that British Airways has already operated international flights from some of those airports.

Certainly, they know whether they are profitable or not, and if they have closed them I guess that it was either because they were not profitable or because they wanted to concentrate of more profitable routes.

Whatever the reason was, BA is not an state-owned company, and therefore, what they have to go after is profit.
This IMO is just an excuse and a poor one at that from British Airways.

BA say they cant make money from Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham; well Virgin Atlantic, bmi, easyJet and many international carriers can make money from these cities.

So why cant BA? Answer; they can, they just choose not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
I also think that if I asked you what the national carrier of France is, you would answer Air France (same with Madrid&Iberia, though IB will soon be controlled by BA).

Once again, both of them have to focus on one city only, in which to create a hub and go after profit (once again).
Yes building large hubs is important for these types of airlines, but other cities in the country they represent should not be forgotten about.

Air France offer allot of international flights from French cities outside Paris, just look at there route network from Lyon.

Iberia offer allot of international flights from Spanish cities outside Madrid, just look at there route network from Barcelona.

Lufthansa offer allot of international flights from German cities outside Frankfurt, just look at there route network from Dusseldorf and Munich.

This is where British Airways is different, they do not offer any international flights from anywhere outside London.

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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
I would also like to add that I am the first one to admit that BA should reconsider their position but I also understand that they do whatever is more profitable.
Indeed. After the losses British Airways recently announced maybe its about time they conceder re-launching international flights from Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham.

Quote:
A BA spokesman said the airline had turned down the chance to be the official carrier.
“We declined the opportunity to become the official airline of the England football team as the cost could not be justified in the current climate,” he added.
“We wish the team well and look forward to flying thousands of customers who have already booked their flights with BA to South Africa.”
A very different story from that the English Football Association painted. The FA basically said Virgin Atlantic offered a superior product at a cheaper price.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 11:31 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by GlasgowMan View Post
This IMO is just an excuse and a poor one at that from British Airways.

BA say they cant make money from Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham; well Virgin Atlantic, bmi, easyJet and many international carriers can make money from these cities.

So why cant BA? Answer; they can, they just choose not to.
Because they prefer to use their planes in routes that are more profitable.
Let's see what happens when their fleet gets bigger.


Quote:
Yes building large hubs is important for these types of airlines, but other cities in the country they represent should not be forgotten about.

Air France offer allot of international flights from French cities outside Paris, just look at there route network from Lyon.

Iberia offer allot of international flights from Spanish cities outside Madrid, just look at there route network from Barcelona.

Lufthansa offer allot of international flights from German cities outside Frankfurt, just look at there route network from Dusseldorf and Munich.

This is where British Airways is different, they do not offer any international flights from anywhere outside London.
I don't know about Air France but I can guarantee you that Iberia don't operate even ONE international flight from Barcelona (actually they don't operate any international flight from any Spanish airport other than Madrid)
Lufthansa does, but they have been able to create a good network, through Regional companies, something that Iberia and BA have not managed to do. (Air France has, though, but only serving Paris).

Quote:
Indeed. After the losses British Airways recently announced maybe its about time they conceder re-launching international flights from Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham.
I hope they do so, I really do. However I would understand if they don't.

Quote:
A very different story from that the English Football Association painted. The FA basically said Virgin Atlantic offered a superior product at a cheaper price.
So, what happened then?
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Last edited by Davodavo; April 9th, 2010 at 11:55 PM.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 02:02 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
Because they prefer to use their planes in routes that are more profitable.

Let's see what happens when their fleet gets bigger.
They can’t be that profitable. If they were they would not be recording the huge losses that they have of late.

Any new aircraft British Airways get will be based in London. Unlike Virgin Atlantic who are making profits and have aircraft and plans to base more aircraft in Glasgow and Manchester.


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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
I don't know about Air France.
Air France has 24 international routes from Lyon. They also have a large number of domestic routes from Lyon. I’m not sure about other French cities, but I would guess Air France does fly internationally from cities such as Marseille and Nice.

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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
I can guarantee you that Iberia don't operate even ONE international flight from Barcelona (actually they don't operate any international flight from any Spanish airport other than Madrid).
Having checked the official Barcelona Airport and Iberia websites, it appears Iberia operate 9 International routes from Barcelona and a number of domestic routes. OK; it’s not as much as I thought but it’s still 9 times more what BA do from outside London.

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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
I hope they do so, I really do. However I would understand if they don't.
Well if BA continue to ignore Britain’s other major cities, then the residents of these cities will continue to ignore British Airways. No great loss to us, as other airlines, such as Virgin Atlantic are and will continue to expand from Glasgow and Manchester, hence why IMO that are more of a National Flag Carrier than British Airways.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 10:42 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by GlasgowMan View Post
They can’t be that profitable. If they were they would not be recording the huge losses that they have of late.

Any new aircraft British Airways get will be based in London. Unlike Virgin Atlantic who are making profits and have aircraft and plans to base more aircraft in Glasgow and Manchester.
I don't know, I suppose you are right, but maybe they would lose even more money, if they operated international flights there.

Quote:
A BA spokesman said: “We cancel routes because they are not the best commercial routes for us.
We are still operating out of Manchester and if people want to fly to New York with us they can transfer through Heathrow or Gatwick.”
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3775156.ece
Quote:
Air France has 24 international routes from Lyon. They also have a large number of domestic routes from Lyon. I’m not sure about other French cities, but I would guess Air France does fly internationally from cities such as Marseille and Nice.
Yeah, Air France does operate international flights from other airports, but European cities only and with subsidiary airlines, not by themselves.
Plus, in most cities where they do it, Ryanair or Easyjet do not seem to be as strong as in other countries of Europe, such as Italy, Spain, Great Britain or Ireland.

Quote:
Having checked the official Barcelona Airport and Iberia websites, it appears Iberia operate 9 International routes from Barcelona and a number of domestic routes. OK; it’s not as much as I thought but it’s still 9 times more what BA do from outside London.
You may be right with Air France, but completely wrong with IB.
IB only operate 1 destination to and from BCN, and this is MAD.
I don't know where you got that information from but it's wrong, and I know what I'm speaking about, I'm Spanish
As I told before IB do not operate any internaional flight from any other airport than Madrid, not even one.

Quote:
Well if BA continue to ignore Britain’s other major cities, then the residents of these cities will continue to ignore British Airways. No great loss to us, as other airlines, such as Virgin Atlantic are and will continue to expand from Glasgow and Manchester, hence why IMO that are more of a National Flag Carrier than British Airways.
Virgin do not have a hub from which to operate flights to everywhere. BA decided to apply this policy and needed flight connections to make long-haul flights depart and arrive full.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #309
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You may be right with Air France, but completely wrong with IB.
IB only operate 1 destination to and from BCN, and this is MAD.
I don't know where you got that information from but it's wrong, and I know what I'm speaking about, I'm Spanish
I think he means Iberia Regional (Air Nostrum) which is true that flies from Barcelona to other spanish cities and it belongs to Iberia. So it's not fully right that Iberia has only one flight from/to Barcelona.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 09:51 PM   #310
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I think he means Iberia Regional (Air Nostrum) which is true that flies from Barcelona to other spanish cities and it belongs to Iberia. So it's not fully right that Iberia has only one flight from/to Barcelona.
If you cheek the statistics sections at AENA, you will see that IB only operate BCN-MAD-BCN.
However, it's true that Air Nostrum operate some international flights (actually, regional), but not IB. In fact it's an argument that people from Catalonia use to show how "evil" Iberia is.
However it seems that they are about to open long-haul flights to Miami and Brasil among others, not many though.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #311
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Virgin do not have a hub from which to operate flights to everywhere. BA decided to apply this policy and needed flight connections to make long-haul flights depart and arrive full.
Virgin Atlantic have a hub at London Heathrow where they offer their own connections plus connections with their partner airlines bmi British Midland and Singapore Airlines.

The difference is, Virgin Atlantic recognise there is demand for direct international flights from outside London, alongside their "hub operations" at Heathrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozen View Post
I think he means Iberia Regional (Air Nostrum) which is true that flies from Barcelona to other spanish cities and it belongs to Iberia. So it's not fully right that Iberia has only one flight from/to Barcelona.
Yes these are the flight I am referring to.

Air Nostrum/Iberia appear to fly direct and non-stop from Barcelona to Albacete, Almería, Asturias, Badajoz, Bologna, Burgos, Corfu, Lyon, Marseille, Murcia, Nantes, Nice, Olbia, Pamplona, Salamanca, San Sebastián, Santander, Tangier, Toulouse, Turin, Valencia and Valladolid.

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Originally Posted by Davodavo View Post
If you cheek the statistics sections at AENA, you will see that IB only operate BCN-MAD-BCN.

However, it's true that Air Nostrum operate some international flights (actually, regional), but not IB. In fact it's an argument that people from Catalonia use to show how "evil" Iberia is.
However it seems that they are about to open long-haul flights to Miami and Brasil among others, not many though.
The flights are bookable via the Iberia website, the flights operate with an IB flight code, the aircraft is painted in an Iberia lively and the crew onboard are wearing an Iberia uniform. Wither the flight is with Iberia mainline or Iberia regional, it’s still Iberia.

The same applies to Air France and Air France Regional or KLM and KLM city hopper. Either or, it’s still the same company.

To re-enforce my argument, while Air France and Iberia’s regional arms of the company operate internationally from cities out with their main hub, the same cannot be said about British Airways.

British Airways regional airline, which is called, “British Airways City Flyer” like the main British Airways, does not operate any routes not involving a London Airport.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #312
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If you cheek the statistics sections at AENA, you will see that IB only operate BCN-MAD-BCN.
However, it's true that Air Nostrum operate some international flights (actually, regional), but not IB. In fact it's an argument that people from Catalonia use to show how "evil" Iberia is.
However it seems that they are about to open long-haul flights to Miami and Brasil among others, not many though.
My point is that Iberia Regional is part of Iberia. If you want to buy a ticket to travel with Air Nostrum, you must buy it on Iberia's website. If you check out Iberia's fleet (on the website) you will see Air Nostrum planes' on it (click on the link: http://grupo.iberia.com/portal/site/...4a195d21061ca/ ) So yes, they operate with a different code but yet they are the same company. I'm just trying to explain GlasgowMan point.
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Old April 14th, 2010, 04:01 AM   #313
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Strike-hit British Airways only airline to award pay rises

The pay of British Airways cabin crew rose by 5 per cent last year despite the airline reporting record losses and other carriers cutting or freezing crew salaries.

Previously unpublished figures from the Civil Aviation Authority revealed that BA’s 12,000 crew were paid an average of £31,400 last year. This was 5 per cent up on the £29,900 the year before.

By comparison, Virgin Atlantic’s crew had their pay frozen at £14,400. Crew at bmi had a 6.5 per cent average reduction to £17,200, while Monarch and Thomas Cook, the charter airlines, cut crew pay by about 13 per cent.

The figures come as BA and Unite, the union that represents cabin crew, continue negotiations about a freeze, bonus cuts and changes to working practices.

BA, which lost £401 million last year and could lose more than £600 million this year, wants to reduce its cabin crew budget. It has already cut the number of crew on its long-haul aircraft and given hundreds voluntary redundancy.

Unite is unhappy with the proposed cuts and its members have voted for strike action. BA was affected by seven days of industrial action last month as thousands of cabin crew walked out. Unite has warned that if negotiations are unsuccessful there will be more action.

BA said that the strikes in March cost it £45 million and resulted in 200,000 fewer passengers flying with the airline.

Howard Wheeldon, senior strategist at BGC Partners, a City brokerage firm, said: “These figures tell a tale of woe for BA and all of BA’s staff have to play their part in the future survival of this airline. They are going to have to adapt and change and the picture may not be a pretty one for them.”

The airline industry has been hit hard by the recession, forcing carriers to reduce costs and ground flights. BA even warned that it was in a fight for survival and, although ticket sales are improving, the airline’s finances remain weak.

The CAA’s figures reveal that BA staff remain the best paid in the industry. Its pilots received a small pay rise last year, taking their average salaries to £108,400. This compared with a 10 per cent cut in pilot wages at easyJet, which paid an average of £64,500. Bmi also cut pilot pay with its average down 4.5 per cent to £74,300.

Thomas Cook Airlines reduced pilot pay by 19.3 per cent to £79,800 after holiday bookings fell during the recession.

BA declined to comment on the CAA figures and Unite was unavailable for comment. The CAA salary figures for 2009 include gross basic pay, overtime, flying bonuses and subsistence allowances.

• BAA lost nearly £4 million in revenues last month because of strikes at BA. Passenger numbers were down 200,000 to 8.2 million after seven days of industrial action, the airports operator said. Heathrow, where BA is the largest operator, lost 180,000 passengers. Based on landing charges and average retail figures, it is the equivalent of nearly £4 million in lost revenues. Despite the strike, traffic at Heathrow grew by 0.4 per cent compared with the same month last year, but would have been about 3.8 per cent without the action.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 12:52 AM   #314
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British Airways cabin crew announce fresh strike action for May and June

British Airways cabin crew announce fresh strike action for May and June
11 May 2010

The British Airways cabin crew union, Unite, has announced fresh strike dates in its long-running dispute with the airline.

Cabin crew will walk out for four separate five-day strikes in May and June.

The first strike will begin on 18 May, ending on 22 May, with the three further strikes beginning on 24 May, 30 May and 5 June.


The union said there was a turnout of 71% of the cabin crew it represents, and 81% voted against BA's offer last week, which sought to resolve the dispute over pay and working conditions.

Details of that deal were not given, but Unite said BA had failed to restore the travel perks it withdrew from staff involved in the previous strikes in March.

Those stoppages grounded hundreds of flights and cost BA an estimated £45m.

The newly-announced strikes will see staff walk out for a total of 20 days, covering spring bank holiday and school half-term holidays.

BA defended its approach to the latest negotiations.

"We have made a very fair offer, which meets the concerns the union raised during 14 months of negotiations and also ensures that our crew remain the best rewarded in the UK. That offer remains available," BA said in a statement.

The airline condemned the decision to strike, saying it showed "a callous disregard" for BA customers and staff, but added that it was already planning contingency measures to ensure as many passengers as possible fly during the strike periods.

All flights from Gatwick and London City airports are expected to operate as normal, BA said, while a "substantial" number of long-haul flights from Heathrow will run as planned.

There will be daily flights from Heathrow to all short-haul destinations, BA said, but did not give any numbers.

As with the strikes in March, the airline is also planning to lease extra aircraft from other carriers and re-book passengers on cancelled flights onto other airlines.

Travel expert Bob Atkinson advised anyone thinking of booking a flight for departure between May 18 and June 9 to “seriously consider” booking elsewhere.

“Regardless of the reasons behind these strikes, the people who are going to suffer the most are BA’s customers.

“Thousands of families will have booked their trip well in advance to coincide with the school holiday and will have little flexibility, minimal realistic alternatives and will be left disappointed.

“On top of this, a 20 day strike running into next month may also cause disruptions to those travelling out to South Africa for the World Cup.

“So what should BA customers do? Firstly customers should consult the BA website for the latest updates, they should then check their travel insurance policy wording to see if they are covered for industrial action, should they need to make a claim.”

Further information for BA passengers can be found by clicking here.

http://www.flyglasgow.net/news.html

http://www.britishairways.com/travel...ke_home_banner
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 04:06 PM   #315
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more strike threats problems and BA and heavy financial losses
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Old May 23rd, 2010, 09:51 PM   #316
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I flew New York to London a week and a half ago, and lucked out with a row of three seats to myself. Then there was the wait to see if I could fly back to Seattle on Thursday the 20th. I lucked out with the court injunction. Oddly the plane was mostly full...I thought the potential strike might have caused some people to make alternate plans.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 12:42 AM   #317
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British Airways employees strike in t-shirts and shorts while downing beer and wine


British Airways cabin crew form a picket line at Glasgow International Airport on May 24, 2010 in Glasgow, Scotland.

Striking British Airways cabin crew employees have one word for the airlines’ stranded customers: “Cheers.”

As the planned weeklong strike against management over pay and working conditions kicked off, cabin crew employees downed pints and donned dresses and shorts to create an atmosphere that looked more like a summer cookout than a picket line, photos from Britain’s Daily Mail showed Monday.

On the menu: ice-cold beers and red wine, according to the Daily Mail.

In addition to their gripes over wages, cabin crew employees are refusing to give up perks that allow staffers a 10 percent discount on all flights, a point that outraged one customer who was attempting to fly to New Jersey to catch Bon Jovi this month.

“I think the strike is nonsense,” Trudy Bradshaw told the paper. “Everyone's having to make cuts - welcome to the real world.”

The airline said it will operate at 70 percent capacity during the strike. Under the current system, crewmembers with the most seniority have “first dibs” on flights and seats, but those on strike would lose the perk.

According to the airline, roughly 1,500 of its U.K.-based cabin crew workers do not live in the U.K., using the cheap airfares to commute to work.

Not surprisingly, fighting for such a posh perk has cost the union in terms of turnout thus far, with just a few hundred of the possible 12,000 employees showing up to strike, the Daily Mail reported. As one BA air stewardess who refused to strike said:

“It’s no longer about terms and conditions, but about concessions to senior staff and reinstating a few people who have been suspended. “Many of us simply can’t afford to go out on strike, and don’t feel it’s in our best interest.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/201...ing_beers.html
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Old May 26th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #318
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bad, bad times for BA
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Old May 26th, 2010, 08:59 AM   #319
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definitely
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Old May 26th, 2010, 12:52 PM   #320
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I was supposed to fly to LA and from San Fransisco in September. I guess I will be changing airlines. I like them and they have a great number of flights to North America but with the current situation when they strike every second weekend and if the volcano on Iceland wakes up again the British isles will be the first affected so I will pick up a different route.
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