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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:46 PM   #181
Yardmaster
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Thanks for that. I did a bit of reading. Can I presume from this:



that the km or so where all those tram lines (18, 19, 41, 47, 49) converge is were they cross over the bridge over the Danube?

If we add the other fixed rail systems in Melbourne, the system starts to look a bit complicated too:



(courtesy Rail Map Australia ; Home Page. )

More to the point, I did the arithmetic along for the timetables along our busiest route, which runs from Melboutrne University to The Domain:



What I came up with this (unidirectional):

Route 1: 104 + 3 additional Fridays
Route 8: 104 + 3 additional Fridays
Route 3: 79 + 3 additional Fridays
Route 5: 61
Route 6: 86 + 2 additional Fridays
Route 16: 94 + 2 additional Fridays
Route 64: 80 + 2 additional Fridays
Roure 67: 80 + 3 additional Fridays
Route 72: 83 + 3 additional Fridays

Total 641, + 22 additional Fridays : doubled: 1282 + 44 (1326). The claim of 1400 here may have included the 55 trams, which run for a short distance along this route, but quickly diverge.

One thing I've learnt so far about Hungarian is that "perc" mean something line "every so minutes" (correct me if I'm wrong).

So, if you can actually produce hard figures for the number of trams running over that bridge, you may take the prize for the busiest route (in terms of services!) But ours is longer!
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 08:01 PM   #182
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No,its not a bridge. Its after a bridge. There arte geographical reasons behind this. There are 2 routes to go south at Buda(left) due to the mountains.I show you:



The blue circles show the only 2 north-south routes. The red lines are the tracks.

Perc is minute.
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Old July 4th, 2009, 04:22 PM   #183
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Then the busy section you refer to is along the river bank above the small blue circle ?
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Old July 4th, 2009, 06:17 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Then the busy section you refer to is along the river bank above the small blue circle ?
No,its the one south of the bridge,the one that goes into the city,the one south of the bridge,if it better that way.

Starts here

(wiki)

And ends here:


(metro4.hu)
(Tthere are 5 trams on the last pic!)
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Old September 14th, 2009, 12:29 AM   #185
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Does anyone have an idea when the Domain Tram Interchange in Melbourne will be renovated - it is one of the main interchanges and it looks like it was last updated in the 60's - it blows! Those ones near the Uni look heaps better. I think it would be nice if they could make it look a little like the shrine.
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Old September 14th, 2009, 11:11 AM   #186
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Ask in the Tram Thread in the Ozscrapers Transport section.

I don't think there are any plans as of yet, though something might be done when the metro tunnel is constructed.
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Old September 14th, 2009, 08:14 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
Ask in the Tram Thread in the Ozscrapers Transport section.

I don't think there are any plans as of yet, though something might be done when the metro tunnel is constructed.
I read in Transit Australia that there are plans to remodel the interchange both in terms of track layout and passenger accommodation. Don't recall when though.
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Old September 15th, 2009, 11:35 AM   #188
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Just to slow an Australian takeover, I should point out to international readers that Melbourne also has one of the slowest tram systems in the world. I've seen the list somewhere, I'll try to find it. Its average speed is near bottom of the list (15 kph I think). Lack of traffic priority and stops averaging 0.25 km apart do not help. Travelling on a Melbourne tram is like being in a coma!

But full marks to Melbourne for at least keeping trams.

Prague public transport is supposed to have very high vehicle distances (more than 4 x Amsterdam for example), this is another factor as well as route mileage. Where I lived in Prague there were trams through the nearby stop (both directions) every 15 seconds in peak. Also very high acceleration and fast journeys. Modrany line I timed at average speed of 25 kph from centre to terminus. It mightn't be the biggest tram city but certainly one of the best.

Sydney had one of the biggest tram systems in the world but destroyed it completely in the 1950s. There were many tram sustems in Australia but all were destroyed except Melbourne and one line in Adelaide.
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Old September 15th, 2009, 10:05 PM   #189
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I have also heard that Melbourne's tram tracks are a bit unusual in that the trams run on the street and cross over other streets at intersections. In other cities they run on dedicated tracks and need not stop at traffic lights. This may explain why the trams in Melbourne run slow. The light rail in Melbourne is much quicker though.
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Old September 15th, 2009, 11:29 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmialli View Post
I have also heard that Melbourne's tram tracks are a bit unusual in that the trams run on the street and cross over other streets at intersections. In other cities they run on dedicated tracks and need not stop at traffic lights. This may explain why the trams in Melbourne run slow. The light rail in Melbourne is much quicker though.
Trams also run on streets in a lot of cities.
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Old September 16th, 2009, 09:05 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmialli View Post
I have also heard that Melbourne's tram tracks are a bit unusual in that the trams run on the street and cross over other streets at intersections. In other cities they run on dedicated tracks and need not stop at traffic lights. This may explain why the trams in Melbourne run slow. The light rail in Melbourne is much quicker though.
Where Melbourne's system is unique because of at-grade crossings is at the tram squares located at Glenhuntly, Kooyong, Gardiner and Riversdale, which involve tram lines crossing heavy rail lines at grade. The overhead wiring arrangements are rather complex and require these 4 locations to be manned, so the voltages can be switched from 600V DC to 1500V DC as required.
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Old September 19th, 2009, 12:14 AM   #192
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What about the hook turn - do other cities have them?
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Old September 19th, 2009, 10:48 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmialli View Post
What about the hook turn - do other cities have them?
Adelaide has a hook turn for buses at the intersection of North Tce and King William St to allow buses picking up from kerbside stops to turn right and head off to the north-east and the O-Bahn. I am not sure if this actually predates the reinroduction of trams to this intersection or was added after the extension to City West opened.
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Old September 20th, 2009, 01:29 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmialli View Post
What about the hook turn - do other cities have them?
Well, technically the hook turn is regarding cars and not trams, so it's not a unique aspect of the Melbourne tram. That aside, Melbourne has the most number of hook turns but there are some intersections in other cities around the world where this does happen.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 01:39 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmialli View Post
Does anyone have an idea when the Domain Tram Interchange in Melbourne will be renovated - it is one of the main interchanges and it looks like it was last updated in the 60's - it blows! Those ones near the Uni look heaps better. I think it would be nice if they could make it look a little like the shrine.
I haven't managed to find any details regarding the upgrade of Domain Interchange on the DoT website however this link (presumably the chosen contractor) outlines the project: http://www.ghd.com.au/aptrixpublishi...ournedomain_mr
Construction is due to begin in the 2nd quarter of 2009 so it should have started a while ago. I wouldn't count on anything happening anytime soon.

EDIT: Page has since been deleted indicating that plans have been changed, scrapped or delayed indefinitely.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 01:51 PM   #196
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A network that once served a number cities (Bruges, Leuven, Hasselt, Mechelen, Kortrijk...) and much, much more, and possibly the longest streetcar network that ever existed is the SNCV/NMVB "Tramways Vicinaux" in Belgium at 4811 km in length in 1945. Of that network only about 100 kms remain in service or as heritage lines: the coast line, a few lines in and around Charleroi, Anderlues, Thuin and Lobbes, near the Han caves, and in the valley of the Aisne.

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Last edited by JayBeeke; October 6th, 2009 at 03:16 PM.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 04:46 PM   #197
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this was a network of interurban tramways, not comparable to a city network.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 05:29 PM   #198
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Correct, for the most part. However, some cities also had local (city) networks served by SNCV. Leuven had 4 lines, Mechelen had 3, and so on. On top of that it also ran inner city lines in cities mostly served by local companies, mostly in Brussels (lines O, W, and so on) but also to a lesser extent in Charleroi, Antwerp and Ghent.

Needless to say that there have been few countries that had such a dense rail network as Belgium in 1950: the standard gauge train and streetcar networks and narrow gauge vicinal and city networks had a combined length of approx. 10000 kms.

PS: I thought I'd add SNCV to the list to point out the importance of what once was - by far - the world's largest single operator tram/streetcar network. It's pretty funny to read things like "The Silesian Interurban was once one of the world's largest networks at 250 km in length". That's peanuts

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Old October 6th, 2009, 06:10 PM   #199
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Sofia railroads network



-orange line with red points : metro
-yellow line with orange points : LRT (project)
-orange line: existing tram routes
-green: upcoming tram routes
-black/white: train railroads

[IMG]http://i36.************/29z5rb9.jpg[/IMG]

Tram transport in Sofia has started in 1901, and now the city has quite a large tram system with 18 lines and about 300kms of rails with 165 stations/stops. More used is the 1,009 mm narrow gauge as only a few lines operate on 1,435 mm. Unfortunately big part of our network now has bumpy rails and crappy tram cars Municipality announced buying of 25 new low floor trams and some renovated second hand units.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 12:22 PM   #200
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Just for fun,... to show you how it all works.

From an article:
"Gothenburg has the largest tram network in Europe. It is Sweden's second-largest city and is located at the mouth of the Göta River on the west coast of southern Sweden. The tram network has been regularly developed/upgraded as there is no metro system in operation."
Source: http://www.urbantransport-technology...ts/gothenburg/

On Wikipedia:
"The 80 km of track — making the Gothenburg tram the largest tram network in Scandinavia — is used by around 200 trams as of 2006[update], which serve twelve day-time and five night-time lines with a combined length of 190 km."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg_tram


So what have you learned from this? Do NOT trust a single source. Do not even trust two or three sources. The best way is to find out for yourself by research, measurings and so on.

That Gothemburg would have the largest tram network in Europe is a JOKE! Gothemburgs public transport is a joke itself! *lol* ...Internationally measured of course.
I have not done any excessive research in this, but largest tram network in Scandinavia, could maybe be right, nothing more. Depending on how you measure then of course.
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