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Old June 18th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #221
flierfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
Don't worry I am happy for any of my figures to be challenged, that's partly why I have made the post - to have the information improved.

The city population figures come from the Wikipedia articles on the respective cities. These articles evidently use, as lordtomasCZ says
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_Urban_Zones

I am looking for some common basis for comparison. If somebody has a better basis for city population measurement by all means propose it.

(and I guess on this basis Stuttgart is also wrong)
Jumbling population figures doesn't help comparing the tram networks. Either you stick to the city proper which I recommend. Or you take the numbers for the conurbations.

And in case of Berlin you have be aware that the tram doesn't serve the whole city.
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Old June 19th, 2010, 03:13 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Jumbling population figures doesn't help comparing the tram networks. Either you stick to the city proper which I recommend. Or you take the numbers for the conurbations.

And in case of Berlin you have be aware that the tram doesn't serve the whole city.
I know about Berlin. And if I stick to the city proper, for Melbourne you would get only a couple of hundred thousand people (at a guess) and the tram network extends well beyond that.

The purpose of copying popn figures (in good faith from Wikipedia which people should take issue with rather than me) was not for comparing tram networks but to give an indication of the size of the city in which the system is located. Obviously in retrospect it would have been better to leave the popn figure out because it has brought all the pedants out of the woodwork. Go bother Wikipedia - you can edit it yourselves.

This thread is about trams and in this case their patronage figures.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 01:32 AM   #223
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Many people says that Melbourne has the largest tram network of the world. But I saw in Wikipedia that Melbourne has 250 Km, whereas Sofia has 330 Km. of tram lines, so how Melbourne could be said that has the largest tram network of the World?

Melbourne's tram is largest in south Hemisphere.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashis Mitra View Post
Many people says that Melbourne has the largest tram network of the world. But I saw in Wikipedia that Melbourne has 250 Km, whereas Sofia has 330 Km. of tram lines, so how Melbourne could be said that has the largest tram network of the World?

Melbourne's tram is largest in south Hemisphere.
read the thread from start to finish.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 04:12 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
(Anybody is welcome to contribute improvements to this list and the figures. Note that population figures for cities are whole metropolitan area - again open to interpretation of course)

1. Moscow: tram 3.6 bill, 418 route km
popn 10.5 mill

2. Prague: tram 380 mill, 141 route km
popn 1.9 mill

3. Budapest: tram 364 mill, 156 route km
popn 2.5 mill

4. Warsaw: tram 270 mill, 120 route km
popn 3.3 mill

5. Vienna: tram 240 mill, 240 route km
popn 2.3 mill

6. Melbourne: tram 180 mill, 250 route km
popn 4 mill

7. Berlin: tram 171 mill, 192 route km
popn 5 mill

8. Gotenburg: tram 140 mill, 144 route km
popn 425,000

9. Amsterdam: tram 130 mill, 138 route km
popn 2.2 mill

10. Stuttgart: tram (stadtbahn) 130 mill, 192 route km
popn 550,000

Some background information also in this thread:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=65822
You should add:
6. Zürich: tram 202.5 mill, 113,1(+13) route km
pop 1mil (agglomeration)

Source: http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/...assengers.html

They also have the intreresting figure passenger * km: 368.8

Edit: I added the 13km in brackets for the Glattalbahn, which is part of the network, but maintained by a different operator.
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Last edited by earthJoker; January 8th, 2012 at 04:26 PM.
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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:28 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
You should add:
6. Zürich: tram 202.5 mill, 113,1(+13) route km
pop 1mil (agglomeration)

Source: http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/...assengers.html

They also have the intreresting figure passenger * km: 368.8

Edit: I added the 13km in brackets for the Glattalbahn, which is part of the network, but maintained by a different operator.
Thank you earthjoker, that update is much appreciated. Since I wrote this I have had access to more up-to-date reports from various cities and my current list is as below. I always appreciate more information from official sources if anybody has it thanks.

1. St Petersburg: tram 476 mill pass p.a., 220 route km.

2. Budapest: tram 364 mill pass p.a., 156 route km.

3. Prague: tram 350 mill pass p.a., 47.3 mill vehicle km, 5.8 bill place km, 141 route km.

4. Warsaw: tram 270 mill pass p.a., 120 route km.

5. Moscow: tram 251 mill pass p.a., 181 route km.

6. Vienna: tram 240 mill pass p.a., 240 route km.

7. Zagreb: tram 214 mill pass p.a., 148 route km.

8. Zurich: tram 202 mill pass p.a., 368 mill pass km, 126 route km.

9. Brno: tram 188 mill pass p.a., 139 route km.

10. Yekaterinburg: tram 180 mill pass p.a., 180 route km.

11. Melbourne: tram 176 mill pass p.a., 22.3 mill vehicle km, 250 route km.

12. Berlin: tram 171 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.

13. Dresden: tram 145 mill pass p.a.

14. Istanbul: tram 140 mill pass p.a. Popn 8,800,000

15. Gothenburg: tram 140 mill pass p.a., 144 route km.

16. Amsterdam: tram 130 mill pass p.a., 138 route km.

17. Stuttgart: tram (stadtbahn) 130 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.

18. Toronto: tram 105 mill pass p.a., 150 route km.
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Old February 5th, 2012, 09:51 PM   #227
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Could anybody tell me which tramcar is the oldest functioning now on Moscow's streets? Is it the Tatra 3 or are there even older ones?
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Old February 5th, 2012, 11:08 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tumexx View Post
Could anybody tell me which tramcar is the oldest functioning now on Moscow's streets? Is it the Tatra 3 or are there even older ones?
The oldest passenger tramcar is Tatra T3SU #3306 - released in 1981:

Володя Царенко

The oldest service tramcar is a snowplow GS-4 (GVRZ) - released in 1963:

Александр Конов
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Old July 14th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #229
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How will the completed Manchester system compare to all of these when the current extensions are all finished?
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Old July 14th, 2012, 03:44 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK Tom View Post
How will the completed Manchester system compare to all of these when the current extensions are all finished?
Most parts of its network will be brand-new and that could be regarded as better if it is done well. As for extensiveness of the network it will be rather underwhelming. Considering the size of Gt Manchester a network length of 100 km isn't particular breathtaking.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 03:48 PM   #231
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Paris: tram 108 million, 41.5 km
It is not big but it is pretty busy for its size.
63.4 km of tram are under in construction, by 2014 the network will be over 100km long.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
Thank you earthjoker, that update is much appreciated. Since I wrote this I have had access to more up-to-date reports from various cities and my current list is as below. I always appreciate more information from official sources if anybody has it thanks.

1. St Petersburg: tram 476 mill pass p.a., 220 route km.

2. Budapest: tram 364 mill pass p.a., 156 route km.

3. Prague: tram 350 mill pass p.a., 47.3 mill vehicle km, 5.8 bill place km, 141 route km.

4. Warsaw: tram 270 mill pass p.a., 120 route km.

5. Moscow: tram 251 mill pass p.a., 181 route km.

6. Vienna: tram 240 mill pass p.a., 240 route km.

7. Zagreb: tram 214 mill pass p.a., 148 route km.

8. Zurich: tram 202 mill pass p.a., 368 mill pass km, 126 route km.

9. Brno: tram 188 mill pass p.a., 139 route km.

10. Yekaterinburg: tram 180 mill pass p.a., 180 route km.

11. Melbourne: tram 176 mill pass p.a., 22.3 mill vehicle km, 250 route km.

12. Berlin: tram 171 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.

13. Dresden: tram 145 mill pass p.a.

14. Istanbul: tram 140 mill pass p.a. Popn 8,800,000

15. Gothenburg: tram 140 mill pass p.a., 144 route km.

16. Amsterdam: tram 130 mill pass p.a., 138 route km.

17. Stuttgart: tram (stadtbahn) 130 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.

18. Toronto: tram 105 mill pass p.a., 150 route km.
Whats up with Basel? Has to be taken up.
Basel has two tram companies with lines, BVB: 8 tram lines, 89 Mio passengers and a net of 62km and BLT with 3 tram lines, 37 Mio passengers with additional 65km.
http://www.g-st.ch/trambasel/bvb_blt...lschaften.html
That makes in all: 11 tram lines, 126 Mio passengers and 127 km line. Is it possible to add that in the list?
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Old July 16th, 2012, 02:18 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
Whats up with Basel? Has to be taken up.
Basel has two tram companies with lines, BVB: 8 tram lines, 89 Mio passengers and a net of 62km and BLT with 3 tram lines, 37 Mio passengers with additional 65km.
http://www.g-st.ch/trambasel/bvb_blt...lschaften.html
That makes in all: 11 tram lines, 126 Mio passengers and 127 km line. Is it possible to add that in the list?
Short answer: no. You can't just add up the numbers of two tram companies without subtracting it by the number of people who use trams of both companies in the same trip.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 07:17 AM   #234
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Dallas currently has 115km of Light Rail with 2 LRT line expansions and a new streetcar all to be down within 18 months.

Toronto's system will be getting much larger and will grow by atleast 50km within 8 years.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #235
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Hong Kong has a light rail network that operates in the northwestern suburbs. Per government statistics (http://www.gov.hk/en/about/abouthk/f.../transport.pdf), the daily patronage is 430,000 passengers over 36km of track. That translates to 157 million passengers a year.

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Old July 16th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Short answer: no. You can't just add up the numbers of two tram companies without subtracting it by the number of people who use trams of both companies in the same trip.
The people don`t use the same tram numbers. Each tram number is an independent one. There is a political history between the two tram companies, but they have independent lines, and there is no subtraction necessary. I update the list, like it reflects the facts, if you don`t agree, come to Basel to visit the place or read the mentioned website (link) in detal.


1. St Petersburg: tram 476 mill pass p.a., 220 route km.

2. Budapest: tram 364 mill pass p.a., 156 route km.

3. Prague: tram 350 mill pass p.a., 47.3 mill vehicle km, 5.8 bill place km, 141 route km.

4. Warsaw: tram 270 mill pass p.a., 120 route km.

5. Moscow: tram 251 mill pass p.a., 181 route km.

6. Vienna: tram 240 mill pass p.a., 240 route km.

7. Zagreb: tram 214 mill pass p.a., 148 route km.

8. Zurich: tram 202 mill pass p.a., 368 mill pass km, 126 route km.

9. Brno: tram 188 mill pass p.a., 139 route km.

10. Yekaterinburg: tram 180 mill pass p.a., 180 route km.

11. Melbourne: tram 176 mill pass p.a., 22.3 mill vehicle km, 250 route km.

12. Berlin: tram 171 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.

13. Dresden: tram 145 mill pass p.a.

14. Istanbul: tram 140 mill pass p.a. Popn 8,800,000

15. Gothenburg: tram 140 mill pass p.a., 144 route km.

16. Amsterdam: tram 130 mill pass p.a., 138 route km.

17. Stuttgart: tram (stadtbahn) 130 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.

18. Basel: tram 126 mill pass. p.a., 127 route km.

19. Toronto: tram 105 mill pass p.a., 150 route km.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #237
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I'm pretty sure Milan would be on that list, too. I don't have any numbers at hand.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 11:48 PM   #238
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In these cities is there a big difference between tram and bus service or do they function as one network with similar branding and image/quality? Do any of these cities run articulated buses and trams in the same transit lane?

Last edited by zaphod; July 17th, 2012 at 12:00 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 12:05 AM   #239
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Quote:
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In these cities is there a big difference between tram and bus service or do they function as one network with similar branding and image/quality? Do any of these cities run articulated buses and trams in the same transit lane?
I know Gothenburg operates both under the same branding as part of one network - the key buses even appear on the tram map.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 02:27 AM   #240
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Quote:
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In these cities is there a big difference between tram and bus service or do they function as one network with similar branding and image/quality? Do any of these cities run articulated buses and trams in the same transit lane?
Toronto operates all three modes as a single network (bus, trams, subways) with the same (at least for the surface vehicles) livery. There are articulated trams and at one point there were also articulated buses.

In most places buses and trams do not operate together. There are only three routes with a right-of-way suitable for bus use. When tram service is suspended for whatever reason, buses are operate along the routes. One of the routes however was poorly designed for bus operations. Most bus drivers are uncomfortable using the ROW and will resort to standard bus operations serving curbside stops rather than the platform stops along that route.
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