daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 6th, 2012, 02:18 AM   #261
Highcliff
Fake democracy
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: São Paulo
Posts: 7,384
Likes (Received): 5011

silly walks...
thank you...
by the way, why are there few cities that use the combino supra? why do the cities prefer alstom citadis?
Highcliff no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 6th, 2012, 03:51 AM   #262
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,974
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highcliff View Post
silly walks...
thank you...
by the way, why are there few cities that use the combino supra? why do the cities prefer alstom citadis?
I don't know anything about the Alstom Citadis, and not much about the Combino Supra, but I do know a little bit about the original Combino since my hometown Amsterdam has over 150 of them, so I could try to make an educated guess.

The original Combino had a lot of major problems with its structural integrity. It cost Siemens a lot to repair all this, and it hasn't been great for the Combino's reputation. They improved the design to form the Combino Supra or Combino Plus, but eventually even dropped the name Combino and are now calling it the Avenio - I think because of the negativity surrounding the Combino name.

Coincidentally, the Siemens Avenio will be bought by another Dutch city, Den Haag (The Hague) which also has the RegioCitadis for tram-train operation.

A third Dutch city, Rotterdam, chose to go with Alstom's Citadis, in stead of Siemens' alternative.


Why is the Alstom Citadis so popular? I can't really answer that, but I'm assuming it's because it didn't have as much problems as the Combino.

Last edited by Silly_Walks; August 6th, 2012 at 04:30 AM.
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2012, 10:55 PM   #263
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,595
Likes (Received): 5955

There are some major new deals with the "Avenio".

I think its funny that Vienna has its totally unique tram type. Not sure I am enthusiastic about it, because the reason for that is that due to its unique design and concept its pretty expensive for the small advantages regarding floor height. The price/value issue together with the high maintenance costs are the reason why no other city wanted to have them. I am talking about the ULF of course.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #264
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,974
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
There are some major new deals with the "Avenio".

I think its funny that Vienna has its totally unique tram type. Not sure I am enthusiastic about it, because the reason for that is that due to its unique design and concept its pretty expensive for the small advantages regarding floor height. The price/value issue together with the high maintenance costs are the reason why no other city wanted to have them. I am talking about the ULF of course.
Also, the main advantage of the ULF is undone if cities already have raised tram platform, where regular low floor trams already allow level exit and entrance... I know many tram platforms in Amsterdam are atalready higher than for example a sidewalk, so the need for ULF is not as great.
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2012, 12:54 AM   #265
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,595
Likes (Received): 5955

Well, low floor trams are a huge improvement but you don't need to go as low as ULF does if you have all stops adapted for other entrance heights. In Vienna, the great thing is that every tram line nowadays has ULFs, so either, ULFs only or every second tram stopping. This is really significant for many young families with their buggies.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #266
Beholder
Registered User
 
Beholder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Westcoast
Posts: 1,546
Likes (Received): 857

Using this post as a reference and adding the numbers for The Hague, I created an updated list.


According to this website, every from every 9 PT passengers, 7 are tram passengers. According to the dynamic bannner on this website 171 million passengers use tram-train, tram and bus in the metropolitan area of The Hague. So roughly 7/9*171=133 million are non bus passengers.

According to this website 336 km has to be maintained. This is most likely single track, so the double track length is about 168km. Most of the lines don't share much of their route with other lines, so the route length is somewhere around 200km, but that's just a rough guess.



1. St Petersburg: tram 476 mill pass p.a., 220 route km.
2. Budapest: tram 364 mill pass p.a., 156 route km.
3. Prague: tram 350 mill pass p.a., 47.3 mill vehicle km, 5.8 bill place km, 141 route km.
4. Warsaw: tram 270 mill pass p.a., 120 route km.
5. Moscow: tram 251 mill pass p.a., 181 route km.

6. Vienna: tram 240 mill pass p.a., 240 route km.
7. Zagreb: tram 214 mill pass p.a., 148 route km.
8. Zurich: tram 202 mill pass p.a., 368 mill pass km, 126 route km.
9. Brno: tram 188 mill pass p.a., 139 route km.
10. Yekaterinburg: tram 180 mill pass p.a., 180 route km.

11. Melbourne: tram 176 mill pass p.a., 22.3 mill vehicle km, 250 route km.
12. Berlin: tram 171 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.
13. Dresden: tram 145 mill pass p.a.
14. Istanbul: tram 140 mill pass p.a. Popn 8,800,000
15. Gothenburg: tram 140 mill pass p.a., 144 route km.

16. The Hague: tram + tram-train ~133 mill pass p.a., 190-210 route km.
17. Amsterdam: tram 130 mill pass p.a., 138 route km.
18. Stuttgart: tram (stadtbahn) 130 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.
19. Basel: tram 126 mill pass. p.a., 127 route km.
20. Toronto: tram 105 mill pass p.a., 150 route km.
__________________
- "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder" -
Beholder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #267
GENIUS LOCI
No More Italian Mod
 
GENIUS LOCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milano
Posts: 35,312
Likes (Received): 11120

So many cities missing
__________________
URBANFILE
GENIUS LOCI no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2012, 07:08 AM   #268
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

Philadelphia - 48 Million Passengers a year - 107kms
Boston - 87.6 Million Passengers a year - 36.6kms

Estimates by 2030

Philadelphia - 127 Million Passengers a year - 192.2kms
Boston - 113.5 Million Passengers a year - 87kms
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #269
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8794

Estimates don't really hold much water, but thanks for the info regarding the current situation.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #270
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

My Estimates are 90% accurate and take into account TOD and infill projects lining up around the current and future stations. Connecting Services , some of the lines in Philly are currently bus routes so I took those ridership numbers and factored them in and bumped them slightly. Philly ridership has been surging these past five years growing 500-2,000 per route with no signs of slowing. Same thing with Boston , which is recording its highest Transit usage.
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2012, 12:26 PM   #271
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

The Rest of the Northeastern Tram Systems

2012

Hudson Bergen Light Rail Network - 18.3 Million passengers a year - 33.2kms
Newark Light Rail - 9.1 Million Passengers a year - 8.5kms
RiverLINE (Tram-Train) - 4.3 Million Passengers a year - 55kms

MBTA Mattapan High Speed line - 1.6 Million Passengers a year - 4.2kms

Baltimore Light Rail - 13.6 Million Passengers a year - 33.7kms

by 2035

Hudson Bergen Light Rail Network - 105 Million Passengers a year - 60.3kms
Newark Light Rail - 43.5 Million Passengers a year - 59.2kms
RiverLINE (Tram-Train) - 18.9 Million Passengers a year - 130kms

MBTA Mattapan High Speed line - 4.5 Million Passengers a year - 9.2kms

Baltimore Light Rail - 43.9 Million Passengers a year - 139.6kms
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #272
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8794

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
My Estimates are 90% accurate and take into account TOD and infill projects lining up around the current and future stations. Connecting Services , some of the lines in Philly are currently bus routes so I took those ridership numbers and factored them in and bumped them slightly. Philly ridership has been surging these past five years growing 500-2,000 per route with no signs of slowing. Same thing with Boston , which is recording its highest Transit usage.
One can only say that ones projections are 90% accurate after the real figures have been published and you have a frame of reference. Sorry, but it is a little fatuous to bombard with figures for things that haven't happened yet or are still only in the very early planning stages without funding confirmation. As for ridership, well, one only needs to look at things such as the ridership estimates of public transport projects around the world showing that they don't always meet expectations (either positively or negatively).

Despite that, this thread is only about the current situation, not projections. Including projected figures only confuses things.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #273
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
One can only say that ones projections are 90% accurate after the real figures have been published and you have a frame of reference. Sorry, but it is a little fatuous to bombard with figures for things that haven't happened yet or are still only in the very early planning stages without funding confirmation. As for ridership, well, one only needs to look at things such as the ridership estimates of public transport projects around the world showing that they don't always meet expectations (either positively or negatively).

Despite that, this thread is only about the current situation, not projections. Including projected figures only confuses things.
Alot of those system expansions listed above are in the Engineering phase or Pre-Construction phase. So I did get the ridership from the released studies...the rest is from general growth. Public Transit is on the upswing in this region and most of the US. Gen Y is behind some of that along with the growth and rebirth of older Tram and regional Rail towns which is now outpacing the Auto-centric towns. The older Generation is now moving back to the cities , with Boston and Philly popular choices. The Tram Neighborhoods and towns are quiet compared to the Subway neighborhoods. Improves to the system have also driven up ridership....which like ive said is growing by an impressive clip along some routes. The Philly Network was only used by 80,000 back in 2008 , now its 110,000 a day and continues to grow. Same with Boston , and this is before the planned expansions later this decade. The Rest of the growth is generated by massive developments along the lines. There are 12 large scale under Construction in Philly along the Tram Network....along with 2 University Expansions which would further drive up ridership. Same is happening in Boston , Jersey City , Newark , Baltimore and Elsewhere. Its a trend in Real Estate and a strong one.... I will go get some of the links , I really don't want to derail the thread with the huge projects underway...so i'll just some of them later. Some of those trolley expansions are Development driven...
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2012, 11:33 PM   #274
Beholder
Registered User
 
Beholder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Westcoast
Posts: 1,546
Likes (Received): 857

It's nice to see a strong positive trend! OT: back to the present:


1. St Petersburg: tram 476 mill pass p.a., 220 route km.
2. Budapest: tram 364 mill pass p.a., 156 route km.
3. Prague: tram 350 mill pass p.a., 47.3 mill vehicle km, 5.8 bill place km, 141 route km.
4. Warsaw: tram 270 mill pass p.a., 120 route km.
5. Moscow: tram 251 mill pass p.a., 181 route km.

6. Vienna: tram 240 mill pass p.a., 240 route km.
7. Zagreb: tram 214 mill pass p.a., 148 route km.
8. Zurich: tram 202 mill pass p.a., 368 mill pass km, 126 route km.
9. Brno: tram 188 mill pass p.a., 139 route km.
10. Yekaterinburg: tram 180 mill pass p.a., 180 route km.

11. Melbourne: tram 176 mill pass p.a., 22.3 mill vehicle km, 250 route km.
12. Berlin: tram 171 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.
13. Dresden: tram 145 mill pass p.a.
14. Istanbul: tram 140 mill pass p.a. Popn 8,800,000
15. Gothenburg: tram 140 mill pass p.a., 144 route km.

16. The Hague: tram + tram-train ~133 mill pass p.a., 190-210 route km.
17. Amsterdam: tram 130 mill pass p.a., 138 route km.
18. Stuttgart: tram (stadtbahn) 130 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.
19. Basel: tram 126 mill pass. p.a., 127 route km.
20. Toronto: tram 105 mill pass p.a., 150 route km.

21. Boston: Green line(?) 87.6 mill pass p.a., 36.6 route km.
22. Philadelphia: Green line (?) 48 mill pass p.a., 107 route km.
23. Hudson Bergen: Light Rail 18.3 mill pass p.a., 33.2 route km.
24. Baltimore: Light Rail 13.6 mill pass p.a., 33.7 route km.
25. Newark: Light Rail 9.1 mill pass p.a., 8.5 route km.

26. NJ RiverLINE: Tram-Train 4.3 mill pass p.a., 55 route km.
27. MBTA Mattapan High Speed line 1.6 mill pass p.a., 4.2 route km. (Isn't this also located in/near Boston?)
__________________
- "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder" -
Beholder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2012, 04:36 AM   #275
Aokromes
Patatero Inside
 
Aokromes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Siberia-Gasteiz
Posts: 8,015
Likes (Received): 2648

Quote:
Originally Posted by traveling dude View Post
I really wish Moscow would get modern tram cars with modern designs, improve its infrastructure (replace tracks, upgrade stops), become disabled-friendly, and expand!
They are already on it (at least 1,2nd points).
__________________
Si quieres compatibilidad con estandares y seguridad, ¿pq recomiendas Firefox y no Opera?
If you want compatibility with standards and security, ¿why do you recomend firefox and not Opera?

The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts. Gene Spafford.
I am Basque, not Russian, the "Siberia" thing is a joke.
Aokromes no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2012, 08:24 AM   #276
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17034

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beholder View Post
It's nice to see a strong positive trend! OT: back to the present:


1. St Petersburg: tram 476 mill pass p.a., 220 route km.
2. Budapest: tram 364 mill pass p.a., 156 route km.
3. Prague: tram 350 mill pass p.a., 47.3 mill vehicle km, 5.8 bill place km, 141 route km.
4. Warsaw: tram 270 mill pass p.a., 120 route km.
5. Moscow: tram 251 mill pass p.a., 181 route km.

6. Vienna: tram 240 mill pass p.a., 240 route km.
7. Zagreb: tram 214 mill pass p.a., 148 route km.
8. Zurich: tram 202 mill pass p.a., 368 mill pass km, 126 route km.
9. Brno: tram 188 mill pass p.a., 139 route km.
10. Yekaterinburg: tram 180 mill pass p.a., 180 route km.

11. Melbourne: tram 176 mill pass p.a., 22.3 mill vehicle km, 250 route km.
12. Berlin: tram 171 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.
13. Dresden: tram 145 mill pass p.a.
14. Istanbul: tram 140 mill pass p.a. Popn 8,800,000
15. Gothenburg: tram 140 mill pass p.a., 144 route km.

16. The Hague: tram + tram-train ~133 mill pass p.a., 190-210 route km.
17. Amsterdam: tram 130 mill pass p.a., 138 route km.
18. Stuttgart: tram (stadtbahn) 130 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.
19. Basel: tram 126 mill pass. p.a., 127 route km.
20. Toronto: tram 105 mill pass p.a., 150 route km.

21. Boston: Green line(?) 87.6 mill pass p.a., 36.6 route km.
22. Philadelphia: Green line (?) 48 mill pass p.a., 107 route km.
23. Hudson Bergen: Light Rail 18.3 mill pass p.a., 33.2 route km.
24. Baltimore: Light Rail 13.6 mill pass p.a., 33.7 route km.
25. Newark: Light Rail 9.1 mill pass p.a., 8.5 route km.

26. NJ RiverLINE: Tram-Train 4.3 mill pass p.a., 55 route km.
27. MBTA Mattapan High Speed line 1.6 mill pass p.a., 4.2 route km. (Isn't this also located in/near Boston?)
Its located in the Mattapan section of Boston , future extensions will go into the Hyde Park section of Boston.
__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2012, 05:48 PM   #277
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 183

Tram systems in Spain, they are all very small by any measure.

Statistics for 2011

Barcelona: 24,2 mill pass p.a., 29,1 route km
Madrid: 17,3 mill pass p.a., 27,8 route km
Tenerife: 14 mill pass p.a., 12,5 route km
Zaragoza: 11,5 mill pass p.a., 12,8 route km
Valencia: 8,6 mill pass p.a., 26 route km*
Vitoria-Gasteiz: 7,4 mill pass p.a., ~9 route km
Bilbao: 3 mill pass p.a., 5,5 route km
Murcia: 3 mill pass p.a., 18 route km

* T4 and T6

The two former tram system in Barcelona and Madrid were at their height in the 1920s and 1930s both transporting some 200-250 mill pass p.a.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #278
nanar
nanar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lyon 6è - (www).darly.org & (www).lyonmetro.org
Posts: 6,034
Likes (Received): 1500

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post


1. St Petersburg: tram 476 mill pass p.a., 220 route km.
2. Budapest: tram 364 mill pass p.a., 156 route km.
3. Prague: tram 350 mill pass p.a., 47.3 mill vehicle km, 5.8 bill place km, 141 route km.
4. Warsaw: tram 270 mill pass p.a., 120 route km.
5. Moscow: tram 251 mill pass p.a., 181 route km.

6. Vienna: tram 240 mill pass p.a., 240 route km.
7. Zagreb: tram 214 mill pass p.a., 148 route km.
8. Zurich: tram 202 mill pass p.a., 368 mill pass km, 126 route km.
9. Brno: tram 188 mill pass p.a., 139 route km.
10. Yekaterinburg: tram 180 mill pass p.a., 180 route km.

11. Melbourne: tram 176 mill pass p.a., 22.3 mill vehicle km, 250 route km.
12. Berlin: tram 171 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.
13. Dresden: tram 145 mill pass p.a.
14. Istanbul: tram 140 mill pass p.a. Popn 8,800,000
15. Gothenburg: tram 140 mill pass p.a., 144 route km.

16. The Hague: tram + tram-train ~133 mill pass p.a., 190-210 route km.
17. Amsterdam: tram 130 mill pass p.a., 138 route km.
18. Stuttgart: tram (stadtbahn) 130 mill pass p.a., 192 route km.
19. Basel: tram 126 mill pass. p.a., 127 route km.
20. Toronto: tram 105 mill pass p.a., 150 route km.

21. Boston: Green line(?) 87.6 mill pass p.a., 36.6 route km.
22. Philadelphia: Green line (?) 48 mill pass p.a., 107 route km.
23. Hudson Bergen: Light Rail 18.3 mill pass p.a., 33.2 route km.
24. Baltimore: Light Rail 13.6 mill pass p.a., 33.7 route km.
25. Newark: Light Rail 9.1 mill pass p.a., 8.5 route km.

26. NJ RiverLINE: Tram-Train 4.3 mill pass p.a., 55 route km.
27. MBTA Mattapan High Speed line 1.6 mill pass p.a., 4.2 route km. (Isn't this also located in/near Boston?).
Between Toronto and Philadelphia, sure you forget a lot of Europeans trams (Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Munich, Köln, Hannover, Bruxelles, Essen, Leipzig, Milan, Karlsruhe, Mannheim, Antwerpen, Bordeaux, Strasbourg, Lyon, Montpellier, etc.... ) and much more between Philadelphia and Hudson Bergen.
__________________
.

Découvrez les sites darly.org & lyonmetro.org
"Si vous ne considérez pas le vélo urbain comme une partie de la solution aux problèmes de déplacement dans les villes, vous êtes une partie du problème".

Last edited by nanar; August 11th, 2012 at 08:52 PM.
nanar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #279
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,746

I posted figures for Paris.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Paris: tram 108 million, 41.5 km
It is not big but it is pretty busy for its size.
63.4 km of tram are under in construction, by 2014 the network will be over 100km long.
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2012, 12:16 AM   #280
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,974
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beholder View Post
16. The Hague: tram + tram-train ~133 mill pass p.a., 190-210 route km.
No offense to The Hague, but I don't think the tram-train kilometers should be added to their total.
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium