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Old August 5th, 2008, 09:11 AM   #21
ssiguy2
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Toronto's streetcar system is, by far, the largest system in the Americas.
Total system length is 305km which {I beleive} is 190km of dual track.
Its going to be getting a lot bigger soon as Toronto's TransitCity iniative will bring another 150km of new track for rapid transit LRT within 9 years. Toronto is also looking to extend current lines and create new ones. In 10 years Toronto could possibly have the largest streetcar/LRT system in the world.
Also Calgary's LRT system is 49km of track.
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Old August 5th, 2008, 03:19 PM   #22
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Barcelona has only 29 km.
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Old August 5th, 2008, 05:01 PM   #23
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Chicago once boasted the world's largest streetcar system, though this was back in the early 20th century. All has been torn up and removed, but here is a map showing the extent:
North

South
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Old August 5th, 2008, 05:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Akira- View Post
Chicago once boasted the world's largest streetcar system, though this was back in the early 20th century. All has been torn up and removed, but here is a map showing the extent:
North
South
Idiots!
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Old August 5th, 2008, 05:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X38 View Post
Idiots!
Yea, now we just have diesel buses. It would be great to have the streetcars back.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 12:39 AM   #26
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All we're left with now are the original numbering systems. For instance yesterday I took the #8 Bus up to the #36 bus and switched. They used the streetcar numbers on the new bus routes. Gotta love the auto industry destroying all our tram/streetcar systems. Grr...

At least Chicago still has a decent bus system though. Over 150 routes, 1 million passengers trips per weekday. You can still see the streetcar tracks when they repave streets here in the city. They just put down fresh asphalt over many of the old routes during routine resurfacing as opposed to actually tearing everything up. They obviously can't keep doing this or the surface of the roads would start being higher than the curbs/gutters. Now they take machines and scrape off the old layers of asphalt exposing brick or whatever else might be down there (streetcar lines) before coming through a few days later and sealing it all over with a new layer of black asphalt. Only when they seriously reconstruct a main street with concrete do they literally rip anything and everything up and spend some quality time laying down a new thick layer of concrete roadway/curb/sidewalk.

Although honestly I can see some reason for using buses instead of the system the city had in the early 20th century. The streetcar routes use to run down the middle of the lanes of traffic. As bad as vehicle traffic is today, I can't imagine how much slower the streetcars would be than buses concidering they couldn't have moved to the left or right to squeeze by cars like the buses always do. If they'd had their own right of way I would take streetcars over buses in a second (who wouldn't).

Last edited by Chicagoago; August 6th, 2008 at 12:46 AM.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:05 AM   #27
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Chicagogeorge, do you know how many total miles the old streetcar system had?
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:15 AM   #28
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Hong Kong.

Total track length of 30 km (18.6 miles).
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Old August 6th, 2008, 10:13 AM   #29
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Doesn't Melbourne now have the most kilometers of track in the world? I think it 'inherited' that title because Moscow and St. Petersburg ripped up some track. I'm not 100% sure though.









The coloured lines are tram routes, the black ones are the urban rail system.

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Old August 6th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post
Hong Kong.

Total track length of 30 km (18.6 miles).
Unfortunately, HK's tram system only runs on the northern part of HK Island.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 10:20 AM   #31
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Technically, Hong Kong's tram network should include the LRT in the northwest New Territories, but even with that, is nowhere as large as the big contenders.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 10:27 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Budapest ~350km,just the tracks,not the lines.
The only info I could find online put the Budapest tram system at 158 km. http://www.um.warszawa.pl/konferencj...n_budapest.pdf
Do you have a link?

So, the largest ones are Budapest, Bucharest, St.Petersburg, Melbourne, Milan, Amsterdam, Brussels, Berlin, Turin, and Toronto?

The current Toronto streetcar network is 305.8 km. On March 16, 2007, David Miller (the Mayor of Toronto) and the TTC announced Transit City, a major proposal for a 120-kilometre, $6.1-billion network of new LRT lines that would provide rail transit to underserved suburban areas of the city. Once built out, the system will be 425.8 km.


Toronto 305.8 km
Milan 287.0 km
Bucharest 286.0 km
Melbourne 250.0 km
Brussels 222.0 km
St. Petersburg 220.0 km
Amsterdam 213.0 km
Berlin 191.6 km
Turin 180.0 km
Budapest 158.0 km

Is this right so far?

Last edited by isaidso; August 6th, 2008 at 11:17 AM.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 10:57 AM   #33
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Is that track length or route length? Are they counting double tracked sections twice?
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:18 AM   #34
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It says 'System length' or just 'length'. I don't know what they are counting. Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_streetcar_system

What do you make of it? I've been digging for a few hours trying to get clarification, but with no luck. There's not a lot of good data any where I've looked.

Last edited by isaidso; August 6th, 2008 at 11:31 AM.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:19 AM   #35
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Belgian coast (67 km)

The Belgian Coast Tram is a public transport service connecting the cities and towns along the entire Belgian coast, between De Panne near the French border to Knokke-Heist near the Dutch border. It is the longest tram line in the world, as well as one of the few interurban tramways in the world to remain in operation.





http://www.dekusttram.be
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #36
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The Toronto number is route length, and I doubt all the other numbers are consistent. As long as the comparison is consistent, I guess it's OK to use either route or track length.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:34 AM   #37
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That's fair enough, I just wanted to check that Toronto wasn't counting double tracked sections twice as has been done with a few cities in the past. Different countries - different measuring methods.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:39 AM   #38
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I found this:
http://sydneypeakoil.com/phpBB3/view...php?f=14&t=394

It suggests that it is track length, not route length. I don't know how credible it is though. If you find some good links, let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The Toronto number is route length, and I doubt all the other numbers are consistent. As long as the comparison is consistent, I guess it's OK to use either route or track length.
So, the track length would be considerably lower due to double counting some track twice or even three times? What about the other figures people are posting. It seems like a giant mess trying to sort it out.

It would be nice to have a top 25 route length list and a different top 25 track length list.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:41 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
Doesn't Melbourne now have the most kilometers of track in the world? I think it 'inherited' that title because Moscow and St. Petersburg ripped up some track. I'm not 100% sure though.
There is a close race around the length that Melbourne has (some sources say 245km, some 250km route).

Milan has around 287km
Katowice around 245km
Vienna 240km

Those three above may be old figures and they may have expanded since then.

I believe the streetcar length for Toronto is the overall track length, not route length which makes it irrelevant to this comparison.

This also doesn't include metropolitan area's. Some metro area's have multiple tram networks (think Paris, Frankfurt-Rhein Main and the Rhein Rurh).

Of note, the Melbourne tram network seems to have a disapportionate number of stops. I guess a big part of this is that many are just half stops, i.e. in one direction. So, what would be called a single stop almost everywhere else would be often named as two stops, one for each direction. Likewise, in most cities a junction between two lines would still be called one stop, but in Melbourne this maybe called 4 stops.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I found this:
http://sydneypeakoil.com/phpBB3/view...php?f=14&t=394

It suggests that it is track length, not route length. I don't know how credible it is though. If you find some good links, let me know.



So, the track length would be considerably lower due to double counting some track twice or even three times? What about the other figures people are posting. It seems like a giant mess trying to sort it out.
Maybe this should be clarified somewhere here.

Route length: Length of Passenger routes. Does not include sidings, double tracks etc. Basically this is the figure people want as it shows the network in real passenger movements.

Track length: This includes all track, sidings, double tracks, depots etc. Of good use to rail companies but little use to general public.
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