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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:46 AM   #41
xlchris
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The belgium one is nice. But I think we only have to do with 1 city. Not more.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 11:46 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
Maybe this should be clarified somewhere here.

Route length: Length of Passenger routes. Does not include sidings, double tracks etc. Basically this is the figure people want as it shows the network in real passenger movements.

Track length: This includes all track, sidings, double tracks, depots etc. Of good use to rail companies but little use to general public.
Thanks. I didn't know a great deal about the various terminology and variations around the world, but thought the definitions would mean the opposite. Thanks for clearing it up.

'Hksyline' is saying the Toronto figure I posted is route length, so the list I compiled should stay since it's the more conservative figure?

Last edited by isaidso; August 6th, 2008 at 12:01 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 12:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Thanks. I didn't know a great deal about the various terminology and variations around the world, but thought the definitions would mean the opposite. Thanks for clearing it up.

'Hksyline' is saying the Toronto figure I posted is route length, so the list I compiled should stay since it's the more conservative figure?
No worries, easy mix up, I don't know enough about the Toronto Tram network to say for sure, but from what I have seen it doesn't look like the world's longest.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:20 PM   #44
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Yeah, it seemed rather suspicious to me too. I would have thought Melbourne or somewhere in Europe would have a far larger system, but then again, the system here is rather extensive in the central city, and Toronto's a fair bit bigger than those other cities listed. Who knows. I'll keep checking back and hopefully a clearer picture will emerge.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:22 PM   #45
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Here are few pics of trams in india
Tram 1
Tram 2
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:28 PM   #46
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Melbourne's is the biggest system in the English speaking world, and third biggest in the world.
Sydney used to have a system much bigger than Melbourne, as did many other cities.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #47
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The route length is that the total number for each line from A to B and back to A? Just asking, because other wise it might be wierd with single track routes.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:55 PM   #48
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I donno the biggest one, might just be St. Petersburg, but Dublin is having the newest and smallest one of the lot.

Just over 20 km of tramline

[IMG]http://i36.************/349easz.jpg[/IMG]
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Old August 6th, 2008, 02:03 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
The route length is that the total number for each line from A to B and back to A? Just asking, because other wise it might be wierd with single track routes.
No, the route length is the passenger travel length between A & B of a single line (regardless of number of tracks), If another say from C to D uses a portion of A & B's line, that shared portion is only counted once.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #50
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2 things

1. What if a route goes in a circle with single tracks? If a routes goes from A to B, than to C back to A. Is this the full route length?

2. In Amsterdam there are several tracks with 5-6 different tram lines, even a part with 7 trams (40 trams an hour are not uncommen, so 80 trams in both directions). If it would only count once, just as a single track with only 1 tram, it wouldn't say nothing at all. Even track length would be better to count than for Amsterdam. For Amsterdam the route length as I understand now would be far worse for measuring the "the network in real passenger movements".
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Old August 6th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
The only info I could find online put the Budapest tram system at 158 km. http://www.um.warszawa.pl/konferencj...n_budapest.pdf
Do you have a link?
Yellow are the tracks:


It would be 158 if it would be single-tracked...but its not. So my ~350 km is true,asd I said "track length". If you want,count the length of the lines on this site,though double their lengths,as it only shows one-way...
Here are the routes:
http://www.villamosok.hu/balazs/visz/index.htm
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Old August 6th, 2008, 03:39 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post


2 things

1. What if a route goes in a circle with single tracks? If a routes goes from A to B, than to C back to A. Is this the full route length?

2. In Amsterdam there are several tracks with 5-6 different tram lines, even a part with 7 trams (40 trams an hour are not uncommon, so 80 trams in both directions). If it would only count once, just as a single track with only 1 tram, it wouldn't say nothing at all. Even track length would be better to count than for Amsterdam. For Amsterdam the route length as I understand now would be far worse for measuring the "the network in real passenger movements".
It's really easy to answer if you think of it this way. How long is it between your house and work? (not necessarily talking about trams here, but just distance). Think of that distance as the route length between your house and work. It has nothing to do with how many tracks can take you there, or how many lanes on the road. A 6 lane highway has the same route length as a 2 lane road.

If it is 6km between your home and work, that is how long it is to you. It is the only measurement you need. If it's a 6lane highway, you don't start to think that work is now 36km away. It's the same for a tram line.

A circular line is the same thing. It's essentially the circumference of the line as it's a circle, so in that effect treated no differently to a standard line.

You must of cause subtract any shared lines so it is only counted as one. This then gives the total network route length.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 08:09 PM   #53
Petr
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Tramwaje Warszawskie http://www.tw.waw.pl/index2.html

length of double tracks in passenger use - 122 km
number of lines - 28 (plus 1 tourist line in July and August)



number of trams - over 850 cars (mainly in double sets)
http://tramwar.republika.pl/
13N

105Na

105N2k

116Na

123N

120N
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Old August 6th, 2008, 08:12 PM   #54
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Antwerp, Belgium:
Our tram network
Our old PCC-trams:

Our new Siemens trams:

A Siemns tram in our underground sytem:

Antwerp has both streetcar and partially underground system (premetro).
A separate map of the underground: (we have some useless tunnels)

One of the stations:
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Old August 6th, 2008, 09:37 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
It's really easy to answer if you think of it this way. How long is it between your house and work? (not necessarily talking about trams here, but just distance). Think of that distance as the route length between your house and work. It has nothing to do with how many tracks can take you there, or how many lanes on the road. A 6 lane highway has the same route length as a 2 lane road.

If it is 6km between your home and work, that is how long it is to you. It is the only measurement you need. If it's a 6lane highway, you don't start to think that work is now 36km away. It's the same for a tram line.

A circular line is the same thing. It's essentially the circumference of the line as it's a circle, so in that effect treated no differently to a standard line.

You must of cause subtract any shared lines so it is only counted as one. This then gives the total network route length.
Thanks. This will help.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 05:06 AM   #56
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According to Yarra Trams who are the operator of Melbourne's tram network:

- 249km of double track.
- 1,770 stops.
- 28 standard routes including the free city circle.
- 499 vehicles available for regular use.
- 155 million passenger journeys each year.
- 1,880 staff employed. including 1,100 drivers.
- 8 depots.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 10:47 AM   #57
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According to Wikipedia the biggest network is in Sint Petersburg. "In 2002 it had 691km of track and 64 different lines." "It has 2402 trams, Wien supposed to have the biggest network."
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Old August 7th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
It's really easy to answer if you think of it this way.

You must of cause subtract any shared lines so it is only counted as one. This then gives the total network route length.
My point is that if you count it in this way it hardly adds anything to the track length, and in case of Amsterdam, and probably more cities it says even less.

Further of all it doesn't seems to be clear either, because I see already several people giving the total line length for each line from A to B and back, which says far more to compare it to my opinion.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpiogenius View Post
I donno the biggest one, might just be St. Petersburg, but Dublin is having the newest and smallest one of the lot.

Just over 20 km of tramline

[IMG]http://i36.************/349easz.jpg[/IMG]
I love this new Luas system, the trams are class.

There's two lines in Dublin isn't there? I remember reading that they don't connect though, so you have to walk from the end of one line to the beginning of the next one. Is that true?
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Old August 7th, 2008, 02:23 PM   #60
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Sofia

-308 km of single track
-200 vehicles
-400 drivers
-3 depots
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