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Old June 30th, 2009, 10:16 PM   #161
OettingerCroat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
You dont want to compete in this,we have the longest tram in the world,the Combino Supra NF12B.
damn... but i think milano's trams have more sections (7 if i remember correctly)
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Old July 1st, 2009, 11:53 AM   #162
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54m - the longest passanger tram in the world,only the cargotram in Dresden is longer.

http://www.blurtit.com/q112974.html

"The special version of the Combino used in Budapest (the Combino Supra Budapest ) are 54 meters long and 2.4 meters wide, making it the world's longest streetcar."

I'd add that it serves the busiest tramline in the world,but I guess it depends in what way busiest - number of trams,or number of passangers.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 12:22 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by OettingerCroat View Post
damn... but i think milano's trams have more sections (7 if i remember correctly)
Yep
But it is 'just' 37 m long

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Old July 1st, 2009, 06:34 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
54m - the longest passanger tram in the world,only the cargotram in Dresden is longer.

"The special version of the Combino used in Budapest (the Combino Supra Budapest ) are 54 meters long and 2.4 meters wide, making it the world's longest streetcar."

I'd add that it serves the busiest tramline in the world,but I guess it depends in what way busiest - number of trams,or number of passangers.
I'll stay out of any argument over the world's biggest or longest tramcar, but both our Ministry of Transport here and the commercial operator (Yarra Trams) claim this to be the busiest tram-route in the world.

The route is Swanston Street- St. Kilda Road Melbourne, which handles 9 or 10 distinct services. It handles about 1400 trams per day.

Terminal facilities at Melbourne University, north of the city: there are three sidings between the tracks to shunt terminating trams here: some services operate north from here (hence "platform 2" on the sign board)



Passenger departure point: since I'm a lazy bugger I try to avoid the peak-hour crowds: this was about 3 pm in the afternoon.



Trams crossing Princes Bridge , in the centre of the city: main railway station on the left.



Shunting facilities outside of the "National Gallery of Victoria"





At Domain Road, South Melbourne: closer to peak-hour. Some of these stops do 40,000 passengers a day.



It handles 1400 trams per day.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 07:52 PM   #165
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I'll stay out of any argument over the world's biggest or longest tramcar, but both our Ministry of Transport here and the commercial operator (Yarra Trams) claim this to be the busiest tram-route in the world.

The route is Swanston Street- St. Kilda Road Melbourne, which handles 9 or 10 distinct services. It handles about 1400 trams per day.
Thats why I said,it depends on what way busiest. We have about 200000 passengers on the 4-6 line(s ,their only difference is 1 station). 40 trams go back and forth,every 90-120 second. Most of the day,thats about 30 trams/direction/hour. So 60 an hour. I use only the 13 hours when traffic is more than few trams per hour. Thats 780 trams a day(give or take a few 10's),on 7,5 kms,at any given point of the route. I claim,our line is the busiest passanger-wise.


I can show you convergence points,where numerous lines meet with trams waiting for the previous one to leave the station,but I dont think thats the point. My point is,it is truly a line,a 7,5km long line,not a 500m long section.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 08:30 PM   #166
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Thats why I said,it depends on what way busiest. We have about 200000 passengers on the 4-6 line(s ,their only difference is 1 station). 40 trams go back and forth,every 90-120 second. Most of the day,thats about 30 trams/direction/hour. So 60 an hour. I use only the 13 hours when traffic is more than few trams per hour. Thats 780 trams a day(give or take a few 10's),on 7,5 kms,at any given point of the route. I claim,our line is the busiest passanger-wise.


I can show you convergence points,where numerous lines meet with trams waiting for the previous one to leave the station,but I dont think thats the point. My point is,it is truly a line,a 7,5km long line,not a 500m long section.
I'm not talking about a 500 metre section of track: it's about 5 km from the University Terminal to the Domain interchange.

You haven't understood that trams 1,3,5,8,16,64,67,& 72 all follow the same route from the north side of the city to the south side- over a distance of 5 km or so- from whence the individual routes (and the 1400 trams) diverge ...



Trams on platform 1 run south; trams on platform 2 run north, but all along the same thoroughfare. 5 km or so south, they diverge ...

In the course of this, they cross numerous other east-west trams: but I haven't even considered them here.

I really can't comment on passenger numbers, since I don't have figures in general. However I do have the Timetable Info for Melbourne.

If you could do the same for me - and help me out with my Hungarian- we could probably sort this out. This perhaps indicates the dificulties of comparing systems thousands of km apart- when (if previous instances are any guide) we don't really understand what the other is talking about.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 11:53 PM   #167
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Timetable? Both lines come every 4-5 minutes in rush,5-6 out of rush(that is what is written in the timetable),which means either a tram 4 or a tram 6 comes every 2nd minute,which usually gets down to 90 sec due to other traffic crossing the tracks. Trams cant get more frequent,becaue then the crossing traffic wouldnt have a chance to get acrosss(thats why I dont get how can 1400 trams go there a day,that is,assuming they run ~18h,77 trams an hour,more then 1 every minute).

Definite arrival time is only cited for trams before 5 and after 20 hours...no other line uses this section,only that 2. There are 18 stations on the common section(both have 19 stations in total).
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 12:10 AM   #168
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the number or the length of the trams is irrelevant, if you could cut a combino in half but fill it with the same amount of people, it would show twice as many vechicles / time..

this video is 1 minute long and you have 4 combinos, 2 per dicrection, in it. at night.
first you see 2 next to each other, then the camera turns as the 1st moves away, you cen see the 3rd and by the time he turns back, the 4th is already at the stop
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 11:58 AM   #169
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Cool

I have to come back to Budapest. And I have to go to Melbourne too: never been in Australia; everybody talk about Sidney but I'm more curious about Melbourne (not only for the tram web )
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 01:06 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
the number or the length of the trams is irrelevant, if you could cut a combino in half but fill it with the same amount of people, it would show twice as many vechicles / time..

this video is 1 minute long and you have 4 combinos, 2 per dicrection, in it. at night.
first you see 2 next to each other, then the camera turns as the 1st moves away, you cen see the 3rd and by the time he turns back, the 4th is already at the stop
Anyway about tram frequencies. It's an interesting point: but I think in points where many lines share the tracks 'traffic' is on those levels you pointed out

I found that video (BTW it would be interesting to create a thread with tram videos) of one of Milan busiest point, Piazza Cordusio

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Old July 2nd, 2009, 02:54 PM   #171
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I'll stay out of any argument over the world's biggest or longest tramcar, but both our Ministry of Transport here and the commercial operator (Yarra Trams) claim this to be the busiest tram-route in the world.
Ok,I've thought a bit,and found a route where 5 tramlines converege for a kilometre. It is a bit hard to count the number of trams there,as most lines dont have specific arrival time here,but general following time(like 4-6 min). In these case,I've countes with 5 min following. It came to be 1330. So if trams do follow 4 minutes,instead of 5,it could be around 1500. See for yourself:

18
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/18vissza.html
2+2*8+7+5*6+4*8+2*6+3*3+1=2+16+7+30+32+12+9+1=109 *2=218

19
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/19-41vvissza.html
2+5+2*6+7+4*6+7+6+5*7+6+4+3+1=2+5+12+7+24+7+6+35+6+4+3+1=112 *2=224

41
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/41vissza.html
2+3+15*4+3*3+1=2+3+60+9+1=75 *2=150

47
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/47vissza.html
2+4+12+13+11+4*10+11+11+12+12+13+11+9+5+3*3=175 *2=350

49
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/49vissza.html
5+8+12+15+12+4*10+11+13+13+13+13+11+10+2*6+5+1=194 *2=388

Line 19 is currently substituted with buses due to reconstruction works...
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 03:19 PM   #172
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All that really make me want to make something similar for Milan... but I'm too lazy

Anyway I find it very interesting
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 07:27 PM   #173
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Quote:
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Ok,I've thought a bit,and found a route where 5 tramlines converege for a kilometre.
móricz-gellért?
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 08:30 PM   #174
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móricz-gellért?
Yes.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 05:47 AM   #175
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Toronto's will be getting a lot bigger over the next decade with 150km of new ROW streetcar lines being built including a minimum of 10km of underground LRT thru Toronto's TransitCity. Construction of the first 15 will begin this year.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 11:57 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Ok,I've thought a bit,and found a route where 5 tramlines converege for a kilometre. It is a bit hard to count the number of trams there,as most lines dont have specific arrival time here,but general following time(like 4-6 min). In these case,I've countes with 5 min following. It came to be 1330. So if trams do follow 4 minutes,instead of 5,it could be around 1500. See for yourself:

18
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/18vissza.html
2+2*8+7+5*6+4*8+2*6+3*3+1=2+16+7+30+32+12+9+1=109 *2=218

19
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/19-41vvissza.html
2+5+2*6+7+4*6+7+6+5*7+6+4+3+1=2+5+12+7+24+7+6+35+6+4+3+1=112 *2=224

41
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/41vissza.html
2+3+15*4+3*3+1=2+3+60+9+1=75 *2=150

47
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/47vissza.html
2+4+12+13+11+4*10+11+11+12+12+13+11+9+5+3*3=175 *2=350

49
http://www.bkv.hu/villamos/49vissza.html
5+8+12+15+12+4*10+11+13+13+13+13+11+10+2*6+5+1=194 *2=388

Line 19 is currently substituted with buses due to reconstruction works...
Well done! You'd have to be at least a serious contender: I haven't added the figures up for the lines through Swanston Street/ St. Kilda Road: I've based my claims on Government & Operator websites or documents. I suspect the figure of 1400 has been rounded up or down (and has probably varied since the claim was published).

I wasn't aware that Budapest had such a prominate standing in the trammway world. St. Petersberg: yes, because it was so often cited here as the largest in the world (and indeed, way back Melbourne had the second largest cable-tram network, after Chicago).

Is there an English language guide to the trams of BudaPest? Genius Loci, I have thought of trying to create a map at standard scale of our tram network (as I observed you did for many other cities), but it's too much work at the moment.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 12:29 PM   #177
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Toronto's will be getting a lot bigger over the next decade with 150km of new ROW streetcar lines being built including a minimum of 10km of underground LRT thru Toronto's TransitCity. Construction of the first 15 will begin this year.
The silly thing is, is that Budapest has 150 kms but it could easily absorb anoth 100 kms of network. But sadly we'll only see 10-20 kms max in the near future.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 12:30 PM   #178
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Is there an English language guide to the trams of BudaPest?
The best one can find on the net,and available in english!
http://hampage.hu/trams/e_index.html
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 02:47 PM   #179
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thanks for that: I have read several guides to Budapest (DTK, Lonely Planet- which is published here). I'm digesting your link.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 03:22 PM   #180
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thanks for that: I have read several guides to Budapest (DTK, Lonely Planet- which is published here). I'm digesting your link.
Then this is the part of his blog you are looking for:

Tram-hiker's guide to Budapest
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