daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Transport, Urban Planning and Infrastructure

Transport, Urban Planning and Infrastructure Shaping space, urbanity and mobility



Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 6th, 2008, 12:09 PM   #1
DarJoLe
Registered User
 
DarJoLe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Likes (Received): 1631

Parliament Square pedestrianisation officially scrapped

Ken's £18m plan for Parliament Square is officially scrapped
Katharine Barney, Evening Standard
06.08.08

Plans to pedestrianise Parliament Square have been scrapped by the Mayor.



Boris Johnson had previously said he would put his predecessor's proposals on hold to study the impact on motorists. But today he announced he will cancel the £18 million plans, claiming the move would cost too much, destroy green space and cause congestion.

Transport for London advised the Mayor that the required pedestrianisation would have a significant negative impact on traffic flow, not only in Westminster but also in central London.

Mr Johnson said: "There is absolutely no sense in Londoners paying £18 million from their already stretched transport budget in order to reduce capacity on London's roads.

"The last mayor was famed for his love of blocking the traffic but this scheme was a step too far. We are committed to ambitious urban realm projects, but not this one."
However, the decision sparked anger from environmentalists who branded it an "idiotic" decision. Green Party London Assembly Member Jenny Jones said: "The pedestrianisation of Parliament Square was a key decision and an important move to make London more beautiful and tourist friendly. This is a disastrous and idiotic decision."

Ms Jones also said she feared for similar projects on Victoria Embankment and Tottenham Hale which had been agreed under Ken Livingstone.

They were all part of the former mayor's 100 public spaces programme pushed aside by Mr Johnson, The Mayor says he is committed to improving open spaces but will do so by following his own strategy and not that of his predecessor. He has already absorbed the programme's sponsor design organisation Design for London-into the London Development Agency.

Now Mr Livingstone has added his comments to the row and lambasted Mr Johnson for cost cutting and hypocrisy.

Speaking to Building Design magazine, he said: "This is an administration that is basically cost-cutting. Boris doesn't want to end up in upsetting the motorists and the AA. It should be an amazing world square, not a squalid traffic roundabout."

But a spokesman for Mr Johnson said he was determined to improve public areas but would do so in a realistic and achievable time frame.

He said: "The Mayor is committed to delivering important public realm improvements but the 100 public spaces programme was highly aspirational with only five schemes completed after eight years and 13 more proposed. In due course the Mayor will announce his own strategy for public space improvements."
DarJoLe no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old August 6th, 2008, 12:25 PM   #2
Langur
Londinium langur
 
Langur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 9,074
Likes (Received): 822

Bad decision Boris. £18m is small beans relative to the benefits.
__________________
"Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste; look well to each step; and from the beginning think what may be the end." Edward Whymper
Langur no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 01:00 PM   #3
LiamF1
Registered User
 
LiamF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 297
Likes (Received): 1

Serious fool
LiamF1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 01:02 PM   #4
Officer Dibble
cartoon policeman
 
Officer Dibble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Londres
Posts: 3,314
Likes (Received): 253

I agree this is a bad decision. This is a fair point - "the 100 public spaces programme was highly aspirational with only five schemes completed after eight years and 13 more proposed" - but this was a crucial one.
__________________
dibble music
Officer Dibble no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 01:52 PM   #5
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,869
Likes (Received): 1809

he is so desperate to save money he is cutting into the muscle and bone
potto está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 01:57 PM   #6
DarJoLe
Registered User
 
DarJoLe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Likes (Received): 1631

On a related note, it's interesting to see where Boris is putting his efforts. Drivers or pedestrians?

Congestion up in C-charge zones
BBC London new
06/08/08

TfL says about 70,000 fewer cars enter the charge zone each day
Transport for London (TfL) has blamed road works for a rise in congestion since the introduction of the congestion charge.

It said traffic - the volume of cars entering the central London £8 road toll zone - was down 21% since the charge came into force in 2003.

But congestion - time taken to make journeys - was back to 2002 levels, a TfL report has shown.

The study blamed reduced capacity due to utility companies' road works.
TfL's sixth Annual Impacts Monitoring Report showed 70,000 fewer cars enter the original zone each day compared to pre-charging levels, and 30,000 (14%) fewer cars enter the western extension since it was introduced in 2007.

OTHER REPORT FINDINGS
The Congestion Charge generated provisional net revenues of £137m in 2007/08
There has been a 6% increase in bus passengers during charging hours in the western extension since 2000.

There has been a 12% increase in cycle journeys into the western extension since 2007
But the report said congestion has to return to levels experienced before the charge was introduced.

Between 2003 and 2006 congestion fell by between 20% and 30%, compared to pre-charging levels.

But in 2006 and 2007 this reduction stood at 8%, which has been blamed on a sharp increase in road works in the capital.

TfL claims that, since April 2007, the number of road work notices served to local councils across London has averaged between 12,000 and 14,000 each month.

TfL's Malcolm Murray-Clark said: "Without the congestion charge the traffic problems in London would be much worse.

"However, as a result of other interventions such as utility and construction works, the reduction in road space has had a detrimental impact on congestion levels and is slowing traffic down."

London Mayor Boris Johnson said: "I have always thought that the congestion charge is a blunt instrument.

"It has proved successful in cutting traffic coming into London but on its own has not resolved the problem of congestion.

"I have scrapped the CO2 Charge that risked thousands of small cars flooding central London, and have asked TfL to bring forward a range of measures to turn around the trend and halt the squeezing of road space that has continued to worsen congestion.
"These include re-phasing traffic signals, working with utility companies to minimise the impact of their works, and securing powers to fine those that mess up our roads."
DarJoLe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #7
sirstan74
Registered User
 
sirstan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 527
Likes (Received): 110

Boris is trying to take us back to a time when suburbanization was encouraged by sacrificing public realm for car traffic. Boris is not a city mayor, he's a suburb mayor.
sirstan74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 02:15 PM   #8
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,869
Likes (Received): 1809

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
"I have scrapped the CO2 Charge that risked thousands of small cars flooding central London,

Nooooo NOT SMALL CARS! The guy is an absolute muppet
potto está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #9
ChrisH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 345
Likes (Received): 7

That's a shame It's crying out for something to be done!
ChrisH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 02:35 PM   #10
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,869
Likes (Received): 1809

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
Mr Johnson said: "There is absolutely no sense in Londoners paying £18 million from their already stretched transport budget in order to reduce capacity on London's roads.

"The last mayor was famed for his love of blocking the traffic but this scheme was a step too far. We are committed to ambitious urban realm projects, but not this one."
He just doesnt get it does he. I think any new prospective Mayor of a City should pass a 1 year course in Urban studies to avoid such utter **** ups in future.

Ambitious Urban Realm projects? What the hell are they then?! What excuse is he going to give the AA for his Euston Road proposal as that is basically the only other thing he has mentioned.
potto está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 02:39 PM   #11
DarJoLe
Registered User
 
DarJoLe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Likes (Received): 1631

And now it's time for our usual lunchtime Evening Standard comedy hour. Including one by me!

Readers comments
Here's a sample of the latest views published.

Never a day goes by without some interfering comment by ex-Mayor Livingstone, who was shown quite clearly what Londoners thought of his time in office and half-baked proposals at clogging up London's traffic when they kicked him out in May. Anybody who thinks London would be a better place by making car travel as difficult as possible is off their rocker. The scheme to pedestrianise Parliament Square would have made traffic flow far worse- bad not just for the motorist but for the passenger on a bus trying to get from A to B on roads unnecessarily clogged up due to daft, cuddly-feely schemes favoured by the ex-Mayor.
- Richard, London, UK

How dare the Mayor cancel yet another one of Ken's schemes. What right does he have....apart from a democratic mandate. If the people of London had wanted more congestion they would have voted for Ken or the Greens. They didn't.
- M Spanner, Ilford

What on earth is Red Ken squealing on about?

If Mr Livingstone was Mayor of Venice, he would probably want to pave that over, as well as killing all the pigeons in St Mark's Square.

Livingstone didn't have a clue, he was never a real Londoner, he was in my mind, an enemy of London.

There was an old episode of Only Fools and Horses, where Rodney gets married and then returns to Del Boy's flat, asking what's for dinner etc., Del boy then tells him, as someone should to Ken, "You don't live here any more"

Remember Ken, you are just a part of history now, very bad history.
- Peter Thurgood, London, UK

I think that a basic rule of thumb should be applied to all major decisions undertaken by Boris: whichever choice would most annoy Livingstone is the right one to make.

I am SO happy that we now have a mayor who understands the needs of the silent majority in London and who doesn't just pander to every minority group who hangs around his office demanding this, that or the other.
- St, London

Once again under Boris London takes two steps back.
- Darren, London

This is a disaster.

What we've seen from the mayor, for whom I voted, since his election is a series of capitulations to the motoring lobby. London was leading the way in Europe for brave, progressive policies that reduced Londoners' reliance on the motorcar. Parliament Square is traffic-choked, polluted and noisy, an unpleasant distraction to a beautiful square. The plans would have provided a green lung for Londoners and an oasis of calm and quiet in congested , polluted streets. This is a major step backwards for London, very disappointing.
- Dr Susan Porter, London

This is a shockingly misguided decision. Parliament Square is a World Heritage Site. The current situation is an utter embarrassment, a bit like Trafalgar Sq was before the North Road was reconfigured for the enjoyment of the pedestrian. Most people who have commented on here have obviously have not read the Parliament Sq proposal which was, like Trafalgar Sq, to make only one side a pedestrian friendly place thus the hysteria over traffic is well just hysterical. In a dense urban area (saving the countryside from sprawl) we must give people more space it is imperative for the psychological wellbeing of humans as well as the obvious physical benefits. We go on about the horror of violence and anti-social behaviour as well people no longer socialising, well instead of turning London into a police state, if the Mayor had bothered to read any Urban literature then he would see that how we use space at a more human level is key. If he cant do this at a World Heritage site then there is absolutely no hope for the rest of London. This obsession over cost-cutting in such a vital entity as London is leading us to literally scrape away at the muscle and bone.
- B Marsden, Islington

Thank goodness; the last thing we want Parliament Square to become is a tourist-infested; beggar and juggler-packed; burger-van covered; picnic site for cagoule-wearing fat Dutch girls to dump three tonnes of fast-food litter in every day. Now just chuck that "anti-war" tramp (who pays his benefits, I wonder ?) out and all will be well.
- Charles, London, UK

Livingstone just hated drivers. £18 million for what is nothing more than a road block, too right it should be cancelled.

Keep going Boris in reversing mad Ken's on personal agendas.
- David W, Plumstead

We should not call it Parliament Square - it should be Parliament Gyratory. This is one of the biggest assets London has and it would be great to be able to take a photo with Parliament or Big Ben in the background (or those statues of famous people). It would also reduce the traffic and pollution in central London. Shame on you Boris for not taking a long-term view.
- Didi, Londo, UK

"This is an administration that is basically cost-cutting."

Ken, that's why we voted you out: you just wasted our money. And so contemptuous of us taxpayers that you milked for eight years were you, that you even made sure your closest cronies received a multi-million pound payout when you were rightly booted out of office.

Ken should be surcharged for the waste of his administration.
- Eric Murphy, London, UK

Dr. Porter how could a huge concreted space be described as "a green lung"? Also have you ever driven, ridden or been on a bus along the embankment? It is one of the busies thoroughfares in London and by blocking it in the middle with this idea the entire of central London would have been thrown into chaos.
Another sensible decision from Boris the ex-buffoon.
- Mark, London, UK

Another step back for London. Clearly Boris thinks true Londoners can only be motorists and not pedestrians. Working every day around Parliament Square I can see what an ugly, no-go area it is. Rather than turning this into another attack on Livingstone, let's as Londoners look at this and realise that it does not of us any favours and makes us once again look like a backwards place. Why can't we make our spaces look good for everyone instead of clearing the way for taxis to ferry the rich around?
- Michael Contaldo, Edgware, London

Livingstone has some nerve criticising the scrapping of this ludicrous, expensive and infeasible scheme and calling it 'cost cutting'. What's wrong with saving tax payers money? Economic prudence was never his strong point, quite the opposite as his comments show. And this a few days after it emerged that he changed the rules to give his aides £1.6m in pay offs just before he was kicked out. What a hypocrite. Good riddance.
- Mike Stern, london

Great News for common sense! So if Boris closed off the Parliament Square to traffic where would all the buses go, tourist coaches, delivery vans taxes and cars? and lets not forget the extra congestion it would cause with more fumes and of course the slowing down of emergency vehicles! Ken has gone and so has another of his crazy ideas.
- Robert, london

Last edited by DarJoLe; August 6th, 2008 at 04:53 PM.
DarJoLe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 02:42 PM   #12
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,869
Likes (Received): 1809

that actually makes me want to kill!
potto está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 02:53 PM   #13
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,147

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
Bad decision Boris. £18m is small beans relative to the benefits.
TfL explained to him that it would cause all sorts of problems - congestion, removal of green space (looking at it, it would have paved over most of the green in the middle of the roads). The design needs to be changed - a partial pedestrianisation might work, like Trafalgar Square.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirstan74 View Post
Boris is trying to take us back to a time when suburbanization was encouraged by sacrificing public realm for car traffic. Boris is not a city mayor, he's a suburb mayor.
no - he's trying to not cripple central London's road network, as advised by TfL. Parliament Square is an important junction - would Paris pedestrianise the Arc d'Triumph? Very few people from the suburbs would drive there. Even so, Boris is at least bothering to engage with those who live further out (though this has little relevance for them) - Ken didn't bother, only visiting half the boroughs, and only one or two inner ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by potto View Post
Nooooo NOT SMALL CARS! The guy is an absolute muppet
That CO2 charge would have massively reduced the congestion charge for small vehicles. It's a highly sensible decision, wanting to keep congestion down. Ken never cared about reducing congestion - he cared about penalising the car at every turn - to the extent of removing Barnet's roads funding until they decided to u-turn and reinstate the speed humps that they bulldozed as they were on major routes, which was a popular move both with the people in the borough and with the ambulance service.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #14
jaybob
A Tale of Two Cities
 
jaybob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The middle of nowhere
Posts: 760
Likes (Received): 0

I dont get to London that often but usually I am at conferences at the QEII centre once or twice a year. Trying to walk round parliment Square is a nightmare. Pedestrianisation would have turned it into a world class public space, Boris just seems like to some mad old fool, who unfortunately is making a rather good job of mucking everything up.
jaybob no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 03:10 PM   #15
dronkula
Registered User
 
dronkula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,525
Likes (Received): 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
TfL explained to him that it would cause all sorts of problems - congestion, removal of green space (looking at it, it would have paved over most of the green in the middle of the roads).
I do have a bit of a issue over the thought of 'saving green space' just for the sake of it. Ok, so the grass would've been paved over, but afterwards you would have had far superior public space. It's not as if that little bit of grass in the middle of Parliment Sq has rabbits and wild deer happily grazing on it.

Quote:
The design needs to be changed - a partial pedestrianisation might work, like Trafalgar Square.no - he's trying to not cripple central London's road network, as advised by TfL. Parliament Square is an important junction - would Paris pedestrianise the Arc d'Triumph?
People said exactly the same thing before Trafalgar Sq and how important that 'roundabout' way and how the revamped would cripple London - and that's generally now seen as being a great success!

People adapt when they have to but if you don't break a few eggs, you're not going to make an omelette!
dronkula no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 03:10 PM   #16
Zenith
Trainee Apprentice MOD
 
Zenith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7,546
Likes (Received): 1075

Fffing C*nt Mayor.

Quote:
Remember Ken, you are just a part of history now, very bad history.
- Peter Thurgood, London, UK
What ffing world was/is this fffing idiot living in? What the hell is wrong with these Londoners? Is it something in the bloody air? From the exhausts of too many cars perhaps?

I despair..I utterly despair, and you know what I have a bloody right to Londoners, yes shock horror I do. You know why? Because London is my capital bloody city that's why.
__________________
'The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way.'
- Heraclitus

Last edited by Zenith; August 6th, 2008 at 03:29 PM.
Zenith no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 03:18 PM   #17
DarJoLe
Registered User
 
DarJoLe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Likes (Received): 1631

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
removal of green space (looking at it, it would have paved over most of the green in the middle of the roads).
Oh no! How dare London try to emulate the most famous European piazza of all time.

DarJoLe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 03:21 PM   #18
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,869
Likes (Received): 1809

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
TfL explained to him that it would cause all sorts of problems - congestion, removal of green space (looking at it, it would have paved over most of the green in the middle of the roads).

The design needs to be changed - a partial pedestrianisation might work, like Trafalgar Square.no - he's trying to not cripple central London's road network, as advised by TfL.

Parliament Square is an important junction - would Paris pedestrianise the Arc d'Triumph?

Very few people from the suburbs would drive there. Even so, Boris is at least bothering to engage with those who live further out (though this has little relevance for them) - Ken didn't bother, only visiting half the boroughs, and only one or two inner ones.

That CO2 charge would have massively reduced the congestion charge for small vehicles. It's a highly sensible decision, wanting to keep congestion down. Ken never cared about reducing congestion - he cared about penalising the car at every turn - to the extent of removing Barnet's roads funding until they decided to u-turn and reinstate the speed humps that they bulldozed as they were on major routes, which was a popular move both with the people in the borough and with the ambulance service.
The Parliament Sq proposal was a part-pedestrianisation.

Parliament Sq is a place for gathering and demonstration, a hard surface is far more sensible. There is plenty of greenery around this area, you just have to lift you feet in sequence a few times. I really despair at the lack of knowledge people have of an area.

At the moment demonstrations and parties spill into the road as it is currently inadequate causing random road closures. I have seen this with my own eyes at least 5 times. Do you actually live here?

Comparing Parliament Sq to the Arc d' Triumph? Well both are pedestrian dumps sure but I think even Clarkson would admit that there is plenty of scope in Parliament Sq to make it more accessible.

Transport for London can easily organise the proposal, they have been involved with it happily for long enough, just as it did with Trafalgar Sq, or have you not seen this success yet? It is a mere political football in this case which needs strong leadership to push something like this through.

The whole point of the congestion charge was to release the urban realm for improvement, that has had momentum since the 80s particularly with Richard Rogers.

if anyone says anti-car again, I`ll shove a copy of the Mail on Sunday up their arse! It is a ******* car industry problem! If the industry cant be arsed to create something that is symbiotic with our living enivironment then they should not be given a free ride.

Im assuming you would have been walking around shouting anti-pedestrian during the 1960s urban destruction then?!

The suburbs just do not have the critical mass to pull off an urban renaissance, it is a flaw in their current configuration. Unlike you however im not going to sit around a wait for them to get their act together and would rather see experiementation in places that can offer a decent future.

Last edited by potto; August 6th, 2008 at 03:26 PM.
potto está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #19
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,147

Quote:
Originally Posted by dronkula View Post
People said exactly the same thing before Trafalgar Sq and how important that 'roundabout' way and how the revamped would cripple London - and that's generally now seen as being a great success
Trafalgar Square only closed off one side - Parliament Square, from what I can see would have been the whole lot. Getting rid of the Southern and Western sides is doable (reroute the A302 past the QE2 centre and make the north and east sides two-way, somehow making a working junction between the E-W and N-S routes in the NE corner - I think the problem was this implementation more than anything.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2008, 03:26 PM   #20
potto
Registered User
 
potto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 14,869
Likes (Received): 1809

Thats not what the Mayor is saying is it now.
potto está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
london, pedestrianisation

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu