daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > Metropolis & States > Baltimore / Washington DC



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 6th, 2009, 03:13 AM   #81
BrooksAct
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 89
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
I think an east-west line further north could be a great asset for the city. At the current moment, the two sides of the JFX are completely barricaded from one another; a transit line may be successful is connecting the two sides, but there are some serious obstacles that would need to be dealt with.

First, it's not called for in the regional rail plan, which in and of itself would attract opposition. It would also probably require significantly more planning than the lines currently in the plan.

Second, as you mentined already, there are substantial practical difficulties because of the terrain and neighborhood layouts. There isn't really a single corridor or two corridors that could be utilized. The plan would require either that the line travel up and down a multitude of streets, which would make it slow and unwieldy, or that we convert minor streets into major boulevards, which would certainly come with community opposition. Both these problems could be solved by tunneling, but that's even more unlikely.

Perhaps the best solution would be to utilize a streetcar instead of a light rail (although as technologies change the two are becoming more and more similar). A single or double car tram could run through the streets of Charles Village and Waverly and along Druid Park Lake Drive or North Ave without causing much of a stir, or it could be routed through the park with less interference than a high speed line. It could also be linked to the Charles Street Trolley.

A third problem, however, is the lack of a natural start and end point for the line, and the reality that it doesn't really match up to natural traffic patterns. As much as I would love to be able to easily get from Waverly to Druid Hill Park, I don't think many people are making that trip, unless the areas get built up more. On the west end, Mondawmin is a natural starting point, but where should the line end on the east side? Should it stop at JHU? Travel across 33rd to Lake Montebello or Morgan State? Travel up Greenmount to Towson? I'm not quite sure where it make sense to stop, but it would almost inevitably have to turn north because there isn't a whole lot further east that would justify the line.
That is the biggest issue with trying to build transit lines one at a time. I think in every transit system there are "weak link" lines, lines that carry few people compared to the heavy lifter lines, but are still needed and necessary. When considered within the scope of a whole system, the heavy lifter lines can compensate for (and make possible) "weaker" lines, but when seeking funding and trying to build a line that runs through less dense areas it is much of the time impossible to justify the start up costs without the benefit of a strong existing system.

It is the same reason that the current Metro green line is criticized as the subway to "nowhere." Considered by itself, yes, it doesn't follow the grandest of paths, but in a cohesive system the green line, like all the lines, would become a gateway for its ridership. I also think the lack of a fully connected system is the only reason (even including blight/crime) that there has not been the typical development/redevelopment around our existing Metro stations--why build up Upton and Penn-North when the line can only draw from the 60,000ish people who live between Owings Mills and Hopkins who use the line each day. I like your idea; personally, I think every neighborhood in the city should be served by at least one, and in many cases, multiple metro stations. But those less traveled lines can only exist within the confines of a fully integrated transit system.

Oh, and I would probably terminate your proposed line in Towson. We need rail to the county seat pretty badly. I got jury duty a few years back while I lived with relatives in the county and it took me two hours by bus to get there. We need it whether it's via your plan or the proposed yellow line, but in either case I think the line needs to be heavy rail considering the distance.

Last edited by BrooksAct; March 6th, 2009 at 03:19 AM.
BrooksAct no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old March 6th, 2009, 03:35 PM   #82
PeterSmith
Registered User
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 1095

http://baltimore.bizjournals.com/bal...2/daily58.html

Thursday, March 5, 2009, 2:34pm EST
Transportation advocates call on Md. leaders to focus on transit
Baltimore Business Journal - by Daniel J. Sernovitz Staff

Transportation advocates called on Maryland’s elected leaders Thursday to focus more of its attention — and money — on the state’ public transit system as it grapples with ways to balance those projects with new roads and highways.

Representatives from the Maryland Public Interest Research Group and Central Maryland Transportation Alliance made their case for the transit projects, including the proposed Red Line in Baltimore, outside Penn Station Thursday morning.

The economy has severely dented Maryland’s ability to pay for all transportation projects, rail and road included. But if the state is going to make any progress in improving the state’s transportation network it needs to place more emphasis on trains and mass transit and less on new highways, said Kristi Horvath, policy associate with Maryland PIRG.

“Maryland is facing a transportation crisis as our roads get more crowded every day,” Otis Rolley III, president of the Central Maryland Transportation Alliance, said in prepared remarks at the Penn Station event. “We really need to make sure that we have a long-term, forward-looking plan.”

Horvath commended Gov. Martin O’Malley for using a substantial portion of the state’s federal stimulus money on making improvements to rail stations other transit projects. The governor’s plan for stimulus-funded transportation improvements includes $135 million for transit projects, according to the state transit administration. But Horvath said more needs to be done. The state has a long-range plan for new rail lines, but those projects have been delayed year after year due to budget cuts, she said.

“Now, we face many funding challenges in Maryland, especially in light of the economic downturn, but obtaining money for transportation improvements is only half the battle,” Horvath said in her prepared remarks. “Our state also needs a visionary, forward-looking plan for investing that money in ways that create and sustain a safe, affordable and extensive transportation system for the 21st century.”

Henry Kay, deputy administrator for the Maryland Transit Administration, said the real question is where the state will get the money to pay for the transit projects. The state’s approach has always been divided between keeping up the state’s existing roads and rails on one hand and building new highways and rail lines on the other. Kay, who spoke at the conference, said his department is doing all the design and planning work it can on new rail projects, including the Red Line, and is not yet at the point where it will either need to build the projects or delay them until money becomes available. The Red Line is estimated to cost $1.6 billion. A similar project in Prince George’s and Montgomery counties, the Purple Line, is slated to cost $1.3 billion.

“What we’re trying to do is get them as ready as possible,” Kay said in a telephone interview.

Kay said it is not his department’s decision to determine whether rail or road projects should be funded first, and that those decisions are left to the governor and state transportation secretary.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
PeterSmith no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2009, 03:09 AM   #83
Dr. Remington
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 109
Likes (Received): 0

the idea for a northern east-west line was a daydream that came from looking at the map of proposed rail on the first page of this thread. i realize this is entirely theoretical and it will most likely not happen in my lifetime, but the point is it would connect with the current metro rail at mondawmin, the current light rail stop at woodberry, the proposed yellow line (which would go to towson) at waverly, and maybe the proposed green line (an extension of the existing metro) at 33rd street. this would make using the transit system at all much more practical because you wouldn't have to go south to downtown in order to make a connection to come back north. given baltimore's high rate of bus ridership compared to other cities, i don't think finding riders would be a problem. but alas, i realize that this all costs money, and there is not much of that to be found these days. perhaps obama would have helped us get this thing going if the economy hadnt blown up.
Dr. Remington no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2009, 06:19 AM   #84
scando
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 4,727
Likes (Received): 109

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
http://baltimore.bizjournals.com/bal...2/daily58.html

Thursday, March 5, 2009, 2:34pm EST
Transportation advocates call on Md. leaders to focus on transit
Baltimore Business Journal - by Daniel J. Sernovitz Staff

Transportation advocates called on Maryland’s elected leaders Thursday to focus more of its attention — and money — on the state’ public transit system as it grapples with ways to balance those projects with new roads and highways.

Representatives from the Maryland Public Interest Research Group and Central Maryland Transportation Alliance made their case for the transit projects, including the proposed Red Line in Baltimore, outside Penn Station Thursday morning.

The economy has severely dented Maryland’s ability to pay for all transportation projects, rail and road included. But if the state is going to make any progress in improving the state’s transportation network it needs to place more emphasis on trains and mass transit and less on new highways, said Kristi Horvath, policy associate with Maryland PIRG.
A lot of the transit lines we see on maps is such a pipe dream that we might as well take another step in the dream. I really think that the biggest weakness in Baltimore's transit progress is the fact that the MTA is one modal administration of a State agency that has most of its mission in being responsible for highways. What we need is an agency that has Baltimore transit as its one and only reason for living. As it is, we stand in line along with a third Bay Bridge, improvements to roads in Garrett county, harbor improvements, a toll agency that acts as an investment bank for State projects, and the airport. As an agency, MDOT has the responsibility of meeting the needs of the entire State and Baltimore is only a small part of that. That's why we need something like DC's WMATA, that only deals with transit and needs to justify its existence based on how transit progress is made.
scando no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2009, 04:05 PM   #85
StevenW
Born in Baltimore
 
StevenW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Newberry, SC
Posts: 11,229
Likes (Received): 979

red line dreamin'.
__________________
Baltimore, my hometown.

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
StevenW no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2009, 06:09 PM   #86
Ty Doggie
Brotha
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 425
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by scando View Post
A lot of the transit lines we see on maps is such a pipe dream that we might as well take another step in the dream. I really think that the biggest weakness in Baltimore's transit progress is the fact that the MTA is one modal administration of a State agency that has most of its mission in being responsible for highways. What we need is an agency that has Baltimore transit as its one and only reason for living. As it is, we stand in line along with a third Bay Bridge, improvements to roads in Garrett county, harbor improvements, a toll agency that acts as an investment bank for State projects, and the airport. As an agency, MDOT has the responsibility of meeting the needs of the entire State and Baltimore is only a small part of that. That's why we need something like DC's WMATA, that only deals with transit and needs to justify its existence based on how transit progress is made.
This is saying a lot.
Ty Doggie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2009, 09:57 PM   #87
Itus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,080
Likes (Received): 10

Thursday, April 16, 2009, 2:44pm EDT
Fed to invest $13 billion in nationwide high-speed rail project
Baltimore Business Journal

Four months after unveiling a high-speed rail plan for the United States, the federal government is now allocating money to get the ball rolling.

The White House and the U.S. Department of Transportation on Thursday said it will invest $8 billion from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, and $1 billion a year for five years as a down payment to develop a passenger rail system and put the transportation policy on the right track.

Maryland is one of the states where rail corridors would be established.

Overall, the program will have 10 high-speed rail corridors that would be potential recipients of federal funding. Those lines are: California, Pacific Northwest, Chicago Hub Network, Florida, Southeast, Keystone, Empire and Northern New England. Also, opportunities exist for the Northeast Corridor from Washington to Boston to compete for funds to improve the nation’s only existing high-speed rail service.

“A major new high-speed rail line will generate many thousands of construction jobs over several years, as well as permanent jobs for rail employees and increased economic activity in the destinations these trains serve,” President Barack Obama said in a statement. “High-speed rail is long overdue, and this plan lets American travelers know that they are not doomed to a future of long lines at the airports or jammed cars on the highways.”

There will be two types of projects for funding under the government’s plan -- create new corridors for world-class high-speed rail like that found in Europe and Japan, and make train service along existing rail lines incrementally faster.

Funding for the projects would be broken down by:

• Individual projects: Providing grants to complete individual projects that are “ready to go” with completed environmental and preliminary engineering work — with an emphasis on near-term job creation. Eligible projects include acquisition, construction of or improvements to infrastructure, facilities and equipment.

• Corridor programs: Developing entire phases or geographic sections of high-speed rail corridors that have completed corridor plans, environmental documentation and have a prioritized list of projects to help meet the corridor objectives. • Planning: Entering into cooperative agreements for planning activities (including development of corridor plans and state rail plans) using non-American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) appropriations funds. This third approach is intended to help establish a structured mechanism and funding stream for future corridor development activities.

Funds could be awarded as early as this summer, according to the government.


http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...l?surround=lfn

http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/31

-----------
Thursday, April 16, 2009, 2:29pm EDT
$20M in stimulus funding slated for Baltimore Metro Subway work
Baltimore Business Journal - by Daniel J. Sernovitz Staff

The Maryland Transit Administration said Thursday it would spend $20 million in improvements to the Baltimore Metro Subway with funds from the federal stimulus package.

The work will include overhauling train wheel assemblies and installing a new public address system at the city rail stations, the MTA said in a news release.

“To create an environment where people choose transit, we must make the experience as reliable and customer-friendly as possible,” Gov. Martin O’Malley said in a statement about the projects.

The state Board of Public Works approved a $15.2 million contract to Hornell, N.Y.-based TTA Systems LLC to undertake the wheel assembly work. It approved a second contract for $4.1 million to International Display Systems Inc., of Dayton, Ohio, for the public address systems, which will feature new audio and electronic message signs to inform riders about delays, service updates and safety messages.

The MTA expects the work will begin this summer but did not disclose a specific date. Combined, the projects are expected to support 600 jobs.

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...l?surround=lfn

Last edited by Itus; April 16th, 2009 at 10:05 PM.
Itus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2009, 05:21 AM   #88
scando
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 4,727
Likes (Received): 109

While coming and going, I've noticed people with trucks and helmets poking around at the Falls Road light rail stop lately, spray paining stuff on the pavement, etc. I saw in the list of "shovel ready" MDOT projects that they are going to spend 2.3 million on the parking lot there. Looks like they are going to start. I don't know just how they can spend 2.3 mill on a parking lot, but I guess we will see.
scando no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #89
sovman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Olney, MD
Posts: 621
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by scando View Post
I don't know just how they can spend 2.3 mill on a parking lot, but I guess we will see.
You underestimate MDOT's abilities to waste money haha
sovman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 23rd, 2009, 06:22 PM   #90
vivo
Baltimore/DC Corridorite
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 561
Likes (Received): 3

I've never read any plans to extend the purple line to tysons or falls church
when do you think this will happen?
vivo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2009, 06:11 PM   #91
PeterSmith
Registered User
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 1095

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...,5613135.story

Canton residents oppose transit plan
But light rail line down Boston Street has official backing

By Michael Dresser
April 26, 2009

Once a gritty neighborhood on Southeast Baltimore's industrial waterfront, Canton has transformed itself into a model of urban chic where million-dollar townhouses overlook the harbor and destination night spots surround O'Donnell Square.

But many residents of the resurgent community worry that the city's preferred route for an east-west transit line would cut off Canton from the water, drag down property values and compound the area's already serious traffic and parking problems. They're organizing to oppose the plan known as Alternative 4-C - which has powerful support and could well be chosen when the Maryland Transit Administration decides this summer.

That route calls for construction of a light rail line between Woodlawn in the west and Bayview in the east. The line would run in a tunnel under downtown and Fells Point. But it would rise from the depths on Aliceanna Street and run on the surface along Boston Street - the broad avenue that separates the luxury waterfront development to the south from the trendy night spots and the Safeway and Starbucks on the north.

The Canton Community Association took a formal position in December opposing Alternative 4-C, the proposal that has won the backing of the Dixon administration, Baltimore County Executive Jim Smith and the Greater Baltimore Committee, among others.

Darryl J. Jurkiewicz, president of the community group and a lifelong Canton resident, said running above-ground trains on Boston Street doesn't make sense. "We all agree we need more and better mass transit, but if you're not going to do it right, it shouldn't be done."

Ben Rosenberg, a lawyer who lives along the Canton waterfront, is convinced that Alternative 4-C would "debase" if not "destroy" his neighborhood.

"I have yet to find somebody [in Canton] who says they're in favor of this thing," he said. "The feeling in Canton is whatever you do, do it underground. ... If that breaks the bank, wait till the bank fills up."

The problem is that, for now at least, an alternative that includes a tunnel under Boston Street probably would break the bank. MTA officials say all that tunneling would put the Red Line project far outside the cost-benefit formulas rigorously applied by the federal government.

In their opposition to surface light rail, the mostly white, relatively wealthy residents of Canton share a common cause with the predominantly African-American, much less affluent residents of the Edmondson Avenue corridor in West Baltimore.

There, too, many residents are demanding that the Red Line go underground if it is built. On both sides of town, many residents prefer the "no build" alternative to the surface rail called for in Alternative 4-C.

In theory, the MTA could propose a tunnel on one side of town but not the other. But that is not likely. The Canton and Edmondson Village areas are the ends of a teeter-totter in a racial and political balancing act.

Baltimore political leaders and transportation officials understand that favoring Canton over West Baltimore would hit a nerve in the city's African-American community, where people remember well that many black residents were displaced in the 1960s and 1970s to make way for a highway that ultimately wasn't built.

Henry Kay, the MTA's deputy administrator for planning, said the agency is acutely aware of that history. "We take that very seriously because we understand the legacy of those issues."

He also noted that federal law prohibits discrimination among communities on the basis of race or relative wealth. "If we study an expensive [alternative] like tunneling, we have to make sure it's going to be equitable."

That need for equity turns on its head one of the arguments against 4-C made by Canton residents - that they contribute a disproportionate share of the city's tax base. Kay said the MTA is legally precluded from taking that into account.

The 14-mile Red Line, which has been the subject of community meetings for several years, is the city's No. 1 transit priority. Planners have looked at both light rail and "express bus" alternatives, but over the past year a rough consensus has formed on using light rail, partially underground, in the plan known as Alternative 4-C.

For now, however, about a dozen alternatives remain in play, including the option of building nothing. The MTA is expected to recommend a specific plan to Gov. Martin O'Malley this summer.

The governor's choice will be sent to the Federal Transit Administration. If the federal government approves the project, it would cover half the cost. A federal decision is expected in 2010 or 2011, and construction could begin about 2012. According to the MTA, the line could open in 2015 or 2016.

The Dixon administration is unequivocal in its support for the $1.6 billion Alternative 4-C. City officials contend that the Red Line would ease rather than exacerbate Canton's traffic problems by making the area less attractive as a through route, especially for trucks.

Jamie Kendrick, deputy director of the city transportation department, said inaction on the Red Line would bring further congestion to the streets of Southeast Baltimore. He said a city traffic analysis projects that without the transit line, every intersection on Boston Street would be in gridlock by 2020.

That hasn't stopped Canton activists from pressing their case. More than a dozen neighborhood residents gathered recently at the Captain James restaurant, a ship-shaped building where Aliceanna runs into Boston, to meet with a reporter. All voiced objections to a surface line on Boston Street.

Jack Stout, a community association board member who lives on Ellwood Avenue, compared the fight against surface light rail to the community's successful fight against the extension of Interstate 83 through Canton. "I see this as our generation's Battle of the Highway."

Caroline Burkhart, who lives in Canton Square "in the heart of the mess," fears that light rail would bring noise, vibration and ugliness to the neighborhood. "No one wants to live next to a train," she said. "Our property value is going to deteriorate."

But the opposition in Canton is not unanimous. Some residents would welcome a rail transit connection and don't care whether it is on the surface or in a tunnel.

Christina Martin, who lives about six blocks from the waterfront on Streeper Street, said she and her husband are "very excited" about the prospect of riding the Red Line. She dismissed concerns that a light rail line would harm property values. "You look at D.C. Your property is worth a lot more if you're next to a Metro line," she said.

Martin, who said her street is frequently jammed with the cars of patrons of O'Donnell Square restaurants and bars, said the Red Line could ease parking problems by letting people visit Canton without their cars. She added that she and her husband would explore other areas of the city more if they could do so by rail.

The 29-year-old nurse practitioner believes some of the divide over the Red Line is the result of a generation gap.

"When you talk to the older generation, they are really opposed to it," she said. "Young people on our block are very much for it."
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
PeterSmith no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2009, 06:55 PM   #92
Itus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,080
Likes (Received): 10

i hope it sorts itself out...or that our connections in DC will help out somehow like they did for the ICC
Itus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2009, 02:55 AM   #93
rockin'.baltimorean
Registered User
 
rockin'.baltimorean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Owings Mills, Md. / Baltimore, Md.
Posts: 6,027
Likes (Received): 1250

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...,5613135.story

Canton residents oppose transit plan
But light rail line down Boston Street has official backing

By Michael Dresser
April 26, 2009

Once a gritty neighborhood on Southeast Baltimore's industrial waterfront, Canton has transformed itself into a model of urban chic where million-dollar townhouses overlook the harbor and destination night spots surround O'Donnell Square.
considering all the oppositions, there's no way this is gonna' get done by 2013.
__________________
B'more Birds' Nest..........Go Orioles!!!! Go Ravens!!!!

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
rockin'.baltimorean no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2009, 05:12 AM   #94
urbanaturalist
Registered User
 
urbanaturalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 535
Likes (Received): 8

What happened to all that money for tunneling. I understand the need to use money fiscally responsibly, but I still don't understand why there isn't 100s of billions of dollars available to build tunnels for cities and jurisdictions that desire that option. Silver Line by Dulles go shafted the same way.

Cause once its built its statospherically unlikely someone is going to come and say we should have done the other way. At the very least need to build trains without the cantilever.

Its unfortunate for Canton and Woodlawn.
urbanaturalist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2009, 05:31 AM   #95
scando
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 4,727
Likes (Received): 109

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...,5613135.story

Canton residents oppose transit plan
But light rail line down Boston Street has official backing

By Michael Dresser
April 26, 2009

Once a gritty neighborhood on Southeast Baltimore's industrial waterfront, Canton has transformed itself into a model of urban chic where million-dollar townhouses overlook the harbor and destination night spots surround O'Donnell Square.

But many residents of the resurgent community worry that the city's preferred route for an east-west transit line would cut off Canton from the water, drag down property values and compound the area's already serious traffic and parking problems. They're organizing to oppose the plan known as Alternative 4-C - which has powerful support and could well be chosen when the Maryland Transit Administration decides this summer......
Somehow I'm not surprised. Transit lines are like prisons...everybody is in favor of them, just not in their neighborhood. I had just moved to Mt Washington when the light rail was built and saw the same thing. All of a sudden all these enlightened urbanists were talking about crime, noise, homeless people setting up housekeeping in their woodpile...talking big about how transit is great, but this line is not planned well...blah blah blah. There were petitions, nature walks (all the little birdies would be killed by the big bad trains), collections,,,etc. Somehow once the monster came, we all got used to it. Surprise..you can cross light rail tracks, Boston St is wide and has lots of room and a transit line would really give Cantonites good access to the rest of the city.
scando no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2009, 05:42 AM   #96
scando
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 4,727
Likes (Received): 109

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanaturalist View Post
What happened to all that money for tunneling. I understand the need to use money fiscally responsibly, but I still don't understand why there isn't 100s of billions of dollars available to build tunnels for cities and jurisdictions that desire that option. Silver Line by Dulles go shafted the same way.

Cause once its built its statospherically unlikely someone is going to come and say we should have done the other way. At the very least need to build trains without the cantilever.

Its unfortunate for Canton and Woodlawn.
There hasn't been money to build lots of tunnels any time since the DC subway. They cost about a half billion per mile if there are no complications like unexpected rocks, cave ins, explosions but everybody with transit aspirations wants them so the feds have been only giving out subway/transit tunnel money to expand heavily used systems. The problem with trains without the cantilever is that third rail systems can't be crossed by cars or pedestrians so they have to be dedicated rights of way. On the other hand, canti systems require higher (more expensive) tunnels so the tunnels are short.
scando no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2009, 05:59 AM   #97
PeterSmith
Registered User
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 1095

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockin'.baltimorean View Post
considering all the oppositions, there's no way this is gonna' get done by 2013.
It's difficult to say how much opposition actually exists. The article mentions how the opposition consists of a whole one dozen people. The Sunpaper wrote similar articles on the Charles Street Trolley, interviewing the three or four people who opposed the project, and then writing multiple articles about it to make it seem like there was substantial opposition. I was surprised when I attended some community meetings regarding the talent and didn't find a single person opposing the trolley. I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true with the Red Line.

Nevertheless, I agree with Scando. Modern light rail is causes less noise and rumble than automobile traffic, and a train is certainly no less ugly than the cars and trucks speeding down Boston Street. And for many of us, trains are actually an attractive addition to the streetscape.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
PeterSmith no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2009, 09:34 AM   #98
BrooksAct
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 89
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSmith View Post
It's difficult to say how much opposition actually exists. The article mentions how the opposition consists of a whole one dozen people. The Sunpaper wrote similar articles on the Charles Street Trolley, interviewing the three or four people who opposed the project, and then writing multiple articles about it to make it seem like there was substantial opposition. I was surprised when I attended some community meetings regarding the talent and didn't find a single person opposing the trolley. I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true with the Red Line.

Nevertheless, I agree with Scando. Modern light rail is causes less noise and rumble than automobile traffic, and a train is certainly no less ugly than the cars and trucks speeding down Boston Street. And for many of us, trains are actually an attractive addition to the streetscape.
Agreed. But, for those concerned with the power lines, I thought I read (maybe on this site) that the technology currently exists for canti-less surface light rail. That's something worth considering and exploring.
BrooksAct no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2009, 04:06 PM   #99
Gsol
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,678
Likes (Received): 117

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksAct View Post
Agreed. But, for those concerned with the power lines, I thought I read (maybe on this site) that the technology currently exists for canti-less surface light rail. That's something worth considering and exploring.
What is "canti-less" technology? I only know of two alternatives to power a light rail train; overhead catanary or third rail inbetween the tracks like a cable car.
Gsol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 27th, 2009, 05:20 PM   #100
PeterSmith
Registered User
 
PeterSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami/Baltimore
Posts: 4,607
Likes (Received): 1095

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsol View Post
What is "canti-less" technology? I only know of two alternatives to power a light rail train; overhead catanary or third rail inbetween the tracks like a cable car.
I recall reading very recently, probably within the past three weeks, about a new technology that allows light rail to run without overhead lines. I'm not sure of the specifics though. If it's a better technology, then sure, use it for the Red Line, but the idea of overhead power lines doesn't bother me. Many of the streetscapes in France, Italy, Germany, etc., which we regard as among the most beautiful in the world, are criss-crossed with tram lines.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
PeterSmith no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu