TTC Subway Name Conventions

[DENTROBATE54]

In light of a recent discussion I've been engaged in regarding how to name future subway station stops, I thought I'd throw out this poll and see what a concensus thinks on the subject matter.

[monkeyronin]

Well, your idea of "North/South" stations conflicts with TTC name conventions, at the very least. Otherwise, there is no single "convention". Stations are named after streets, neighbourhoods, and landmarks.

[DENTROBATE54]

How should the TTC/City of Toronto go about choosing station names for its new lines?

1. By cross-intersection (e.g. Bathurst, Spadina, John, University, Yonge, Jarvis)

2. By nabe/community/district name (e.g. Queen West, Fashion, Entertainment, Financial, Downtown, Town of York)

3. A mixture of both (e.g. Bathurst, Fashion, John, Osgoode, Yonge, Town of York)

4. By local landmark (e.g. CHUM, Opera House, Eaton Centre, St Micheal's, Geogre Brown)

5. Duplicate the naming of ceertain BD stops, by adding the suffix "South" (e.g. Dufferin South, Bathurst South, Spadina South, Sherbourne South, Broadview South)

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

Otherwise, there is no single "convention". Stations are named after streets, neighbourhoods, and landmarks.

Streets, area-specific names, and landmarks is the commission-approved convention. This was recently discussed when corporate sponsorship of stations for the Spadina extention came up at a commission meeting, and the conventions were unaltered when it was realized that corporate sponsorship could result in things like "Pepsi Station"

[DENTROBATE54]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

Well, your idea of "North/South" stations conflicts with TTC name conventions, at the very least. Otherwise, there is no single "convention". Stations are named after streets, neighbourhoods, and landmarks.

I wouldn't mind it if there was an Eglinton subway that they'd use a mixture of both nabe/street name conventions. I'm thinking like:

By nabe name...
MOUNT DENNIS for Weston Rd
TRETHEWEY for Keele St (technically the same intersection but more original)
FAIRBANK for Dufferin St
FOREST HILL for Bathurst St
SUNNYBROOK for Bayview Ave
LEASIDE for Laird Dr
ONTARIO SCIENCE CTR for Don Mills Rd (technically a landmark but works)
EGLINTON SQUARE for Victoria Park Ave
GOLDEN MILE for Warden Ave
IONVIEW for Birchmount Ave

With of course the intersection/landmark names for most of the others.

[kettal]

I'm not a fan of East this and West that. St Clair West, for example should have been called Hillcrest instead.

I also don't like Entertainment or Fashion to be station names. Makes the city look like some sort of shopping mall.

[isaidso]

We should try an avoid duplication like St.Clair and St.Clair West. It's confusing to visitors and potentially to locals as well. Our streets are set up as a grid. As the subway system expands over the coming decades, this duplication might increase to a point where it becomes bewildering.

Subway stations should reflect the area that they are located in. St.Clair West says nothing about how far west along St.Clair it is. The only reason we know, is because we've looked it up, or gotten off at that station. Subway station names that reflect the neighbourhood will also go a long way into cementing area names with the public.

Cabbagetown is a far better choice than simply calling a station Parliament. When we finally get a subway line going there, lets hope they choose the former over the latter.

[DENTROBATE54]

Originally Posted by kettal

I'm not a fan of East this and West that. St Clair West, for example should have been called Hillcrest instead.

I also don't like Entertainment or Fashion to be station names. Makes the city look like some sort of shopping mall.

Thank you! Truer words never spoken!

Originally Posted by isaidso

Cabbagetown is a far better choice than simply calling a station Parliament. When we finally get a subway line going there, lets hope they choose the former over the latter.

But we won't. The station would be at Queen/Parliament (or further south), nowhere near Cabbagetown, to the north of Gerrard. It'd be misinformation to call it Cabbagetown Station. I'm all for district names, but only where they make sense.

[Jaye101]

Originally Posted by kettal

I'm not a fan of East this and West that. St Clair West, for example should have been called Hillcrest instead.

The street's name isn't St. Clair, it's St. Clair Avenue West. Also, that station is in the middle of four very distinct neighbourhoods; Forest Hill, Hillcrest, Cedervale, and Humewood.

[kettal]

I realize that, but there's nothing about that particular spot on St. Clair Avenue West that makes it the most important part of St Clair West. Hypothetically, if there were 3 separate subway lines which had stations along St Clair Avenue West, then why should one of them be blessed with the name, St Clair West?

Now that I think of it, same goes for stations like Bathurst or Bayview or Keele. Why should Bathurst Station mean Bloor & Bathurst? Would the station at Bathurst & Eglinton be any less Bathursty?? For this reason I think landmarks, neighbourhoods or even minor streets are better than major arterials for the name.

Stations along Yonge, I will make an exception. Those may be named after major streets because it Yonge + Street is a definitive intersection for the city.

[Jaye101]

It's the way we relate to places in the city.

Personally I think there could be three St. Clair Wests as long as they were on different subway lines, that way you can refer to the line.

"Get off at Bathurst DRL"

The station would be named Bathurst, but would be referred to by the name of the line. This way makes the most sense, because it gives riders the best idea of where each station is located. If you know the street grid of the city you should be able to convert that knowledge to the corresponding city's subway system. Many larger subway systems use this method.

[monkeyronin]

If accuracy is the primary concern then simply duplicate the Los Angeles model, whereby the station is named after the intersection; so, we'd have Bathurst/St. Clair, Yonge/St. Clair, Yonge/Eglinton, University/Queen, etc.

Rather cumbersome names, however.

[monkeyronin]

Originally Posted by kettal

Hypothetically, if there were 3 separate subway lines which had stations along St Clair Avenue West, then why should one of them be blessed with the name, St Clair West?

As is typically done in most cites with extensive metros, names are duplicated on different lines.

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by kettal

I'm not a fan of East this and West that. St Clair West, for example should have been called Hillcrest instead.

I also don't like Entertainment or Fashion to be station names. Makes the city look like some sort of shopping mall.

Isn't this hypocritical though, since Fashion or Entertainment function by the same method as Hillcrest? Fashion or Entertainment may sound cheezy to some, but they're defined and recognized areas of the city.

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by Jaye101

It's the way we relate to places in the city.

Personally I think there could be three St. Clair Wests as long as they were on different subway lines, that way you can refer to the line.

"Get off at Bathurst DRL"

The station would be named Bathurst, but would be referred to by the name of the line. This way makes the most sense, because it gives riders the best idea of where each station is located. If you know the street grid of the city you should be able to convert that knowledge to the corresponding city's subway system. Many larger subway systems use this method.

Ideally, names are not duplicated, that minimizes the chance for confusion among riders.

Before the Sheppard line, there was only one Yonge station, so it wasn't a problem before, but now we have two, so it always has to be referred to by intersection now between Bloor-Yonge and Sheppard-Yonge.

Tokyo's system is almost exclusively neighbourhood based, even though the major arteries do have street names (small streets are unnamed though). When a station straddles two neighbourhoods, occasionally both are incorporated into the station name, which I don't favour as it makes for some very long station names (like Ochiai-Minami-Nagasaki, or Isesaki-Choujachou, or Soushigaya-Ookura, you get the idea)

[kettal]

Originally Posted by TRZ

Isn't this hypocritical though, since Fashion or Entertainment function by the same method as Hillcrest? Fashion or Entertainment may sound cheezy to some, but they're defined and recognized areas of the city.

Probably. I also don't like that they are recognized areas of the city with street signs and all. This ain't Sears, fashion and entertainment aren't confined to specific areas.

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by kettal

Probably. I also don't like that they are recognized areas of the city with street signs and all. This ain't Sears, fashion and entertainment aren't confined to specific areas.

They aren't confined, but they are very concentrated in that area.

[Jaye101]

Originally Posted by kettal

Probably. I also don't like that they are recognized areas of the city with street signs and all. This ain't Sears, fashion and entertainment aren't confined to specific areas.

Yeah, Chinese people aren't confined to Chinatown so might as well drop the name.

[DENTROBATE54]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

As is typically done in most cites with extensive metros, names are duplicated on different lines.

I realize this too. Which is why I suggested the suffix "North" or "South" when attrbuting names to Eglinton and Queen-DRL respectively. I think the general public would be smart enough to differentiate the Bathurst Stations at Queen, Bloor, Eglinton, even Sheppard. Speaking of, riders probably would've acclimatized to the existence of 2 "Yonge" stations without the massive overhaul of name-templates throughout Sheppard Stn.

Originally Posted by TRZ

Isn't this hypocritical though, since Fashion or Entertainment function by the same method as Hillcrest? Fashion or Entertainment may sound cheezy to some, but they're defined and recognized areas of the city.

Not some, most. The poll virtually proves that. Just because one station, out of 69 recieves a "function" name (Musuem) doesn't mean we have to follow suit with future subways. There's absolutle zero history, charm, sophistication or character in naming somewhere "Entertainment" or "Fashion". you may as well call 'em "Club" and "Frock".

[Jaye101]

I think a station named Clubland would be pretty damn cool actually.