Bradford | City Park | Complete

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by emma72

Apologies for my *Ignorance* I didn't realize this forum and the T&A was only for members of Bradford Council, or those with an Architectural background. I bow down in deference to your superior knowledge.

Please however appreciate my conviction (enough to put my real name!) and passion for the future of Bradford City Centre.

Although the CGIs of the Park at Heart are indeed impressive I have a real issue with the Mirror Pool - the main one being its maintenance. In fact if I can refer you to the Park at Heart site at http://www.parkattheheart.com/consultation.htm 79% of questionnaire respondants wanted the park to be clean and well maintained - It was the highest response the council published.

Personally (although I understand my opinion is worthless to the likes of Bradford Born and Bred and City of Bradford and seemingly the council itself) I believe that the glass buildings would be better placed as shopping facilities (Debenhams, Next BHS perhaps) This would then allow the Odeon to be redeveloped as a Bradford Academy (like the keighley academy) or Corn Exchange (given that its just down the road from the university it would surely capture the enterprises core target market). The remaining mills in the town could then be utilised as combined office living/ space. (if they were spruced up). This would leave the Wesfield area open for redevelopment - central train station, catherdral park, a nod to site of the original Ford that Bradford got its name from (sorry Westfield - we've waited too long).

Yes I know this may all seem pie in the sky (and I'm sure I'll be told in no uncertain terms how flawed my proposal is!) but from where I'm standing I haven't spent £10m on an artists impression and I know its never going to happen!!!!

To start of with I have no architechtural knowlage or am I a member of the council. Infact, I'm still in my first year of GCSEs. ANd your comment about the Telegraph and Argos Forum, I find people on their racist and generally very immature (slighlty ironic for me saying that lol).
Why would you think your opinion would be worthless to me?

And from my point of view, your idea of the Westfield area is interested, but at the same time impossible, I can't see it happening. But the Park At the Heart certainly will happen and when it does it will have massive improvements to the city center. But I'm still abit concerned about whats going to happen to the roads. I know they're going to be paved over (i think), but how will Bradfords inner city road system work then? At the current state it is a shambles unfortunately.

[dunlin]

Back to the culvert shown in the pictures - this was exposed during the preparations for the site and it was indeed vast a vast brick lined arch at the junction between the sorting office and Bennetts the Barbers - now full of concrete, unfortunately (not the babrers, which has a superb art deco interior next time you need a shearing)

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by dunlin

Back to the culvert shown in the pictures - this was exposed during the preparations for the site and it was indeed vast a vast brick lined arch at the junction between the sorting office and Bennetts the Barbers - now full of concrete, unfortunately (not the babrers, which has a superb art deco interior next time you need a shearing)

Are you sure this is posted in the right thread? Seems to relate to the Westfield Bradford thread where the photos of the culvert were recently uploaded.

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by Yorkshire Boy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/c...&nbwm=1&bbwm=1

Watch it from 18 minutes and 20 seconds in. Before then they talk about the recent floods in Leeds.

Picked up lots of interesting points from this report:

Funding of Park at the Heart is closed to being agreed.

Its a modified version of the origonal plans

It would be a landscape park area (what ever that is) where the origonal mirror pool would have been.

Old Tyrells Police station being demolished but not the existing majistrates courts. I still think the old Police station would be much better than the new one if they changed the glass colour abit. The new one looks aweful.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by *-City Of Bradford-*

Picked up lots of interesting points from this report:

Funding of Park at the Heart is closed to being agreed.

Its a modified version of the origonal plans

It would be a landscape park area (what ever that is) where the origonal mirror pool would have been.

Old Tyrells Police station being demolished but not the existing majistrates courts. I still think the old Police station would be much better than the new one if they changed the glass colour abit. The new one looks aweful.

Beat me to it, was just about to post the link. Watched the report and it is interesting news, one for them seemingly getting the funding and the other for the fact that the actual mirror pool itself that has been banged on about for so long seems to be omitted from the latest plan with a landscaped park area in replacement. To be honest an at deepest 30cm pool was seeming more and more pointless the further you considered the matter. Granted that space would allow for the setting up of performances in the square, though of course only when drained. The rest of the time it would just seem to present itself as a barrier with water only deep enough to splash in with a few fountains here and there. If this is indeed the announcement of the pool being dropped, perhaps they can leave those two greens that were to be previously removed for the mirror pool to remain where they are in conjunction with further landscaped areas. I also wonder if the concept of the mirror pool in particular is the contentious issue with critics and objectors from the public, I guess there's still the problem of major roads like Hall Ings & Princes Way bordering the site to consider though. Some management in somehow downgrading these roads ought to be looked into alongside this new park. Back to the design, I remember this was as we saw the scheme last, I wonder if it is much the same just minus the pool now:

Originally Posted by Dan B

http://www.sturgeonnorth.com/

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Work on a showpiece City Park scheme is to start in the autumn as funding has now been “identified” for the £24 million Centenary Square project.

The news comes as an application to create two buildings instead of one to house the management and security of the park, along with public toilets, as well as a replacement kiosk, is set to be approved next week.

The bid was only submitted two weeks ago, but planning permission needs to be in place by next month if enabling works are to start in September, with construction planned for the new year.

A report to Bradford Council’s regulatory and appeals committee states: “Following the unsuccessful lottery bid for funding of the Park at the Heart, the Council took the decision to proceed with the project, subject to alternative sources of funding. Funding has now been identified and the project reviewed, with the programme including enabling works to begin in September 2009 and construction works in January 2010.

“In order to meet that programme, the requisite planning permission needs to be in place by July 2009.”

In February the Council allocated £10 million towards the project in a bid to help kickstart the city’s regeneration. It was part of the Conservative-led budget which detailed a capital spending programme – mainly funded from the sale of Leeds-Bradford Airport.

It is looking to regional development agency Yorkshire Forward to match the figure, which will allow the scheme to go ahead. An announcement is expected shortly.

The park will feature a mirror pool to create a civic centrepiece and the infrastructure to hold major public events beside the grade I listed City Hall, along with children’s play areas, quiet spaces for reflection, and bars, cafes and restaurants. A total of £1.5 million has been spent on drawing up the detailed designs, which are being funded by the Council, Yorkshire Forward and English Partnerships.

The revised plans are due to be determined by the regulatory and appeals committee in City Hall on Wednesday from 10am.

[Dan B]

No omission of the 'mirror pool' mentioned in this article, but of course does give an indication of funds being found and work starting. I just hope they can leave the rest of Centenary Square alone in terms of its paving and street furniture and focus on the police station and courts area, and save some money while at it. As the article says there is also a planning application out there so just need to find it. Also mentions two new buildings which would fit with the Sturgeon North images.

Well here's the complete list of planning applications for Centenary Square which does have two applications for the city park dated 2007:

http://www.planning4bradford.com/Pub...=002DM5DHBU000

Maybe check if there's an update...

... Nope!

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by Dan B

No omission of the 'mirror pool' mentioned in this article

There is actually, I've put it in bold for you

I'm very interested to know if a major music event can be run in the city centre in the park like origanally planned.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by *-City Of Bradford-*

There is actually, I've put it in bold for you

I'm very interested to know if a major music event can be run in the city centre in the park like origanally planned.

Yes, as I said no omission.

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by Dan B

Yes, as I said no omission.

Lol, I misread, thought you said mension

[b1gbr0ther]

I hope my continued posting will not be considered intrusive but i thought some people might be interested in my followup the2minutehate.blogspot.com/2009/06/blog-post.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_m-DvTdjAY

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by b1gbr0ther

I hope my continued posting will not be considered intrusive but i thought some people might be interested in my followup the2minutehate.blogspot.com/2009/06/blog-post.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_m-DvTdjAY

Some very interesting points raised, quite a few I'm inclined to agree with. I guess one of the reasons for the big space for the mirror pool is the fact it can be drained and then have events or performances on it. However for such temporary uses, it does seem like far too much of a barren space, with a splash pool the rest of the time. Your point about it being called a park in particular as well as the grassed areas with the memorials struck a chord as well, something I've been saying for a while now. I don't know about the concept of an 'outdoor shopping centre', I guess a commercial element is required for a scheme to be a success, but the fact that there is an impassable patch of water then surrounded by these eventual commercial buildings in place of the police & magistrates courts does suggest they've designed this into the plan. I do seem to remember something about winter gardens though in between some of these buildings. But on the whole you're right, this isn't much of a park, more of a waterlogged square. Not enough grass or flowerbeds or plants or trees to give it such a name.

It seems nevertheless though, they plow ahead with the current plan:

Originally Posted by T&A

City Park bid wins outline approval

2:24pm Wednesday 1st July 2009

comment Comments (9) Have your say »

By Hannah Baker »


An application for two new buildings in Centenary Square, Bradford, which will form part of the multi-million pound City Park development, has been given a green light by councillors.

The buildings include a pavilion to house tourist information and newsagent kiosks, public toilets and a wardens security office and a control building for public events.

The pavilion, which will also contain a water tank to supply the proposed mirror pool, will be built at the top of a slope with visitors able to look down on to the park from a viewpoint on its roof.

The circular control building, which will be lit in a variety of colours, will be raised on stilts, providing event technicians with a vantage point over the park.

The Council hopes the area beneath the building will become a meeting point for visitors.

Planning permission for the buildings, which will be constructed on the site of the existing police station, needs to be in place this month if enabling works are to start in September.

Members of Bradford Council’s regulatory and appeals committee approved the application at a meeting today but full permission cannot be granted until a consultation period expires tomorrow. So far no objections have been raised.

The Council decided to proceed with the £24 million City Park scheme following the failure of a Lottery funding bid in 2007.

The authority allocated £10 million towards the project in February and is looking to regional development agency Yorkshire Forward to match the figure, which will allow the scheme to go ahead. An announcement is expected shortly.

The mirror pool would provide a civic centrepiece and the infrastructure to hold public events next to the grade I listed City Hall. There will also be children’s play areas, quiet spaces for reflection, bars, cafes and restaurants on the site.

A total of £1.5 million has been spent on drawing up the detailed designs for the scheme with funds from the Council, Yorkshire Forward and English Partnerships.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...line_approval/

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by Dan B

It seems nevertheless though, they plow ahead with the current plan:http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...line_approval/

It's great that the thing is going ahead. It will help the city, and it can be drained and we can have soem music concerts. Shame we don't have 100% backing of the project from the people as I read in the comments section in the Telegraph and Argus yesterday. Saw some of the latest visuals of the Park and they look great!

Anyway a huge new Park at the Heart promotion is to start when the project starts in autumn so look foward to seeing that.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by *-City Of Bradford-*

It's great that the thing is going ahead. It will help the city, and it can be drained and we can have soem music concerts. Shame we don't have 100% backing of the project from the people as I read in the comments section in the Telegraph and Argus yesterday. Saw some of the latest visuals of the Park and they look great!

Anyway a huge new Park at the Heart promotion is to start when the project starts in autumn so look foward to seeing that.

Sony want to put a huge advert on the Old Police station so that could happen. But the Council want to put huge banners on the Police station to promote the Park. They want to make it as if you'r looking through the building at looking at the park, so it shows what it looks like.

Interesting to know. By the way, do these latest visuals of the park look anything like the images I last posted further up the page on post #45? I assume the designs are pretty similar. The media pod could do without the green stilts though, I don't mind stilts, just the colour seems wrong, either black or a sandy colour. Also wondering whether the green roof of that control centre is fully accessible from the ground for people to walk up for extra park space and shouldn't it then have railings of some some form to prevent people falling off easily if that is the case? I don't personally mind this end of the park design as it shows plenty of greenery being placed where it hasn't before. However the 'mirror pool' taking away some of the greenery from the other end where the Bradford Fire Memorial and Sharon Beshenivsky Memorial among others are sited seems pointless and takes away from the somewhat sheltered setting they are currently given. Doubtlessly a replacement spot will be found, though last I heard this would be in Norfolk Gardens by a proposed replacement bus shelter on Hall Ings, inappropriate to say the least. This was all highlighted in b1gbr0ther's video blog, a 'park' that does away with more private, secluded and generally park like spaces, and replaces it with a rather featureless square (or oval rather) that's sometimes waterlogged essentially . Events aside, this is how it will mainly represent itself and it isn't like spaces of greenery can't be incorporated into events spaces. I just really don't think you can even call this a park to be honest and that's pretty much because of the mirror pool, which seems the contentious element in the scheme for most people, that and the busy surrounding roads.


A new article in the Telegraph & Argus about the funding:

Originally Posted by Telegraph & Argus

City Park funding details emerge

7:10am Tuesday 7th July 2009

comment Comments (42) Have your say »
By Will Kilner »


More details have emerged about the funding package put in place to allow Bradford’s showpiece City Park scheme to go ahead.

Regional development agency Yorkshire Forward has now agreed to contribute £9.3 million to the £24.4m scheme, while the Regional Transport Board is set to provide about £3m.

Bradford Council’s powerful Exec-utive will next week be asked to approve £10m of Council spending, which would allow construction work to start in autumn this year.

A formal tendering process will begin once funding is fully approved but the Telegraph & Argus understands that 16 companies, including several high-profile names, have already expressed interest in the construction contract.

The Council’s chunk of the funding was originally set aside in the joint Conservative-Liberal Democrat-Green budget agreed in February.

Councillor Kris Hopkins, leader of the Conservative-led Council, said: “There have been many disappointments for the district and its residents over the years with regard to regeneration, but I believe we are now in a position to establish the momentum to carry us through to success.

“The failure of the Big Lottery Fund to provide grant assistance could have been a fatal blow to the City Park but, thanks to the support of the Liberal Democrat Group and our external funders, we are ready to deliver this landmark project.

“I have little doubt that, when complete, people from inside and outside the district will be taken aback by the quality of the City Park. I now look forward to the autumn when the building work will begin in earnest.”

Councillor Jeanette Sunderland, leader of the Liberal Democrat group, said: “There has been a lot of debate around this issue since Lottery funding was not secured and whether it was an appropriate use of increasingly scarce Council resources.

“But this project is, essentially, the central plank of the city centre regeneration scheme and so many of the other plans for Bradford depend on it.”

But Councillor David Green, the Labour group’s regeneration spokes-man, said: “There are still a few outstanding concerns. It is going to be a job that goes off half-cock.

“When this idea was introduced the police station and the magistrates’ court were going to be demolished. In this plan they are not.

“We are going to end up with possibly a state-of-the-art public realm but still with buildings that the Council hasn’t been able to resolve the problems of.

“The purpose of improving the public realm is to attract investment and new developers. They seem to be cherry picking bits and pieces and it needs a more strategic approach.”

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...etails_emerge/


I guess at least none of it is coming directly from the tax payer like previously suggested at one point. Remember the fund they expected us to pay into? However it's interesting to see at least one councillor showing this up as a half measure with the magistrate courts remaining and either all or half of the old police station doing so as well. I guess the figure of £24.4m doesn't include the later proposed 'Business Forest' (God I hate that stupid name), don't know if there will actually be any changes to the Tyrls public space either as a result which looks frankly a concrete mess right now. At least the stone paving on the main part of Centenary Square will remain as a result of the lottery refusal, no point in replacing this for the uglier the Porphyry Sett & Overlapping Arcs previously proposed, a needless hassle and disruption for Centenary Square in general.

This overview of new developments and paving work from the New Victoria Place planning application would seem to confirm it remaining as well as revealing the current plan for the park and the area in general:

[Yorkshire Boy]

That's very optomistic to hear about the source of funding for this project, looks like the whole thing might turn around now. Thanks for the updates you two, without you guys this thread would be pretty silent im sure!

[Mezzo]

Originally Posted by Yorkshire Boy

That's very optomistic to hear about the source of funding for this project, looks like the whole thing might turn around now. Thanks for the updates you two, without you guys this thread would be pretty silent im sure!

Maybe that's because judging from feedback on the T&A site, most people in Bradford think this scheme is a colossal waste of money and there's very little support for it.
Speaking of negativity towards it, someone on the T&A forums posted this last week:



You can bet that image didn't cost the millions BCR would have spent on it

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by Mezzo

Maybe that's because judging from feedback on the T&A site, most people in Bradford think this scheme is a colossal waste of money and there's very little support for it.
Speaking of negativity towards it, someone on the T&A forums posted this last week:



You can bet that image didn't cost the millions BCR would have spent on it

Well why Didn't the people on the Telegraph and Argus anti Park @ Heart people have there say on the questionaire. They FAIL>

I think you should remove the picture, this is not a joke forum like the Telegraph and Argus, that picture ruins this thread. When they say the BCR failed, I think they are happy it failed and wanted it fail, judging by what they say and do.

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

An ambitious scheme for a “world class” park in the centre of Bradford got the final go-ahead yesterday.

The £24.4 million development will transform the heart of the city.

It will contain the largest water feature of any UK city – the 4,200sqm mirror pool – and the six-acre City Park itself is also seen as a catalyst which will boost the economy, support jobs and encourage investment and development in the city centre.

Work will start in the autumn.

The development has been made possible after the final funding required was secured from Yorkshire Forward, the Regional Transport Board and the Homes and Communities Agency.

If follows a commitment made by the Council back in February to plough £10m of the cash gained from the sale of Leeds-Bradford International Airport into the project after a bid for Lottery funding failed in 2007.

A total of £7m of the Yorkshire Forward cash, has been provided through the Government’s fiscal stimulus programme, which is aimed at bringing forward public works to create jobs and stimulate the economy.

The development is expected to create 90 full-time construction jobs as well as the contract containing clauses that local labour and materials should be used where possible.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...y_Park_scheme/

There is also a video on their aswell. Brilliant news, we're getting somewhere now.

[Mezzo]

Originally Posted by *-City Of Bradford-*

I think you should remove the picture, this is not a joke forum like the Telegraph and Argus, that picture ruins this thread.

I'm not removing anything.
You don't have a monopoly on ruining threads with inappropriate pictures.

[delores]

I do hope the buildings surrounding the pond are better designed, if anything these buildings should show the pride of the city the way the city hall did.