daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy (aug.2, 2013) | DMCA policy | flipboard magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > Metropolis & States > Seattle



Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 13th, 2009, 06:10 AM   #61
bgwah
honk!!!
 
bgwah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 2,053
Likes (Received): 144

It's Proposal F here: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/fla...ayviaduct.html

The Pike Place-Waterfront connection (F-6) still kind of sucks with this one.

Why can't the Pike Place/Steinbruck Park part look more like G-6?
bgwah está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old January 13th, 2009, 03:28 PM   #62
Seasun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,069
Likes (Received): 106

The Times shows one larger tunnel under 1st Ave with the traffic stacked. The P-I is showing two tunnels, one under Post and one under Western. I think the 1st Ave version makes more sense in terms of safety and required land rights.

Safety:
If the two separate tunnels were much closer together then cross tunnels would allow for evacuation and more options for air circulation during a fire. The single larger tunnel should allow for much more robust air circ and better options to evacuate to a safer space. Going up and down stairs isn't ideal but it's better than suffocating or burning to a crisp.

Land Rights:
The 1st Ave sketch would seem to use public right-of-way until it hits Belltown. Post Alley is very narrow. Western Ave has decent width. Anyone know if there's a court precedent or some law that limits landowner control of their property beyond a certain depth? Could someone have mineral (mining) rights below someone else's property in this state?
Seasun no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 06:02 PM   #63
CrazyAboutCities
Registered User
 
CrazyAboutCities's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 8,552
Likes (Received): 161

I'm little surprised by this news. I'm still concerned about funding a bored tunnel. I noticed that bored tunnel doesn't included exits to downtown Seattle. Why is that? When will they start construction on bored tunnel?
CrazyAboutCities no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 08:11 PM   #64
Aaron W
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 758
Likes (Received): 4

From KOMOnews.com:

Quote:
But one potential stumbling block has already cropped up in the form of an initiative that would prohibit the city from using any public property to construct a tunnel.

Magnolia resident Elizabeth Campbell said she filed the initiative Tuesday morning with the city clerk's office.

"The tunnel, as designed... has pretty much bypassed Queen Anne, Magnolia, Ballard, Crown Hill," she said. "And this is a vital connection for us to go south and come back to our homes."

Campbell has 180 days to gather 18,000 sigantures to put the proposal before the City Council.

The council can enact the construction ban into law, send it for a vote of the people or put two options on the ballot.


If by chance this initiative was successful, wouldn't it also prevent Sound Transit from tunneling north from downtown to UW?
__________________
"A city exists, not for the constant passage of motorcars, but for the care and culture of men." -- Lewis Mumford
Aaron W no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 08:47 PM   #65
CrazyAboutCities
Registered User
 
CrazyAboutCities's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 8,552
Likes (Received): 161

It won't happen. I saw the polls for bored tunnel on Seattletimes.com... The result is changing but it is showing highest percentage of Seattle residents wants bored tunnel.
CrazyAboutCities no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 08:54 PM   #66
pwalker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Native Seattleite
Posts: 1,277
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron W View Post
From KOMOnews.com:





If by chance this initiative was successful, wouldn't it also prevent Sound Transit from tunneling north from downtown to UW?
Don't know about UW.

Of course a citizen can file an initiative. And of course someone did. And of course it will slow it down some more. Sea-Tac third runway comes to mind.
This is afterall, Seattle.
pwalker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 09:26 PM   #67
CityView Jim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,238
Likes (Received): 277

I don't think this will slow things down. First she needs 18000 signatures. That's a lot. Then this goes before the council which is pretty much in favor of the tunnel if it can be properly funded. Should it go to a vote, I think tax payers will support the tunnel overall, again given proper financing strategy. I just dont think there are enough Magnolians who care that much to further stall progress. Aside from that, there will be 2-3 years of design and property acquisition.

I'm still intrigued by the logistics of the whole thing. At some point before the tunnel is operational the viaduct will have to come down. How long will Seattle be without a true connection through that area? I eagerly await the design and proposed construction schedule.
CityView Jim está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 09:35 PM   #68
CrazyAboutCities
Registered User
 
CrazyAboutCities's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 8,552
Likes (Received): 161

I just read the article from Seattletimes.com... That article said they will start construction on bored tunnel in 2011 and will open in 2015. That is little faster than I expected.
CrazyAboutCities no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 09:56 PM   #69
jessejb
Registered User
 
jessejb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,083
Likes (Received): 225

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities View Post
I just read the article from Seattletimes.com... That article said they will start construction on bored tunnel in 2011 and will open in 2015. That is little faster than I expected.
Yea Im suprised too. In 6 years we will have no viaduct anymore and a tunnel? rad.
__________________
Le Tumblr: http://anevergreenstateofmind.tumblr.com/
jessejb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 10:16 PM   #70
meku
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,052
Likes (Received): 49

The viaduct is supposed to come down in 2012, but I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to stretch it's lifespan to 2014/2015.

The surface street improvements might start as early as next year.
meku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 10:29 PM   #71
CrazyAboutCities
Registered User
 
CrazyAboutCities's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 8,552
Likes (Received): 161

Yeah. I wonder how will they demolish the viaduct? Implosive?
CrazyAboutCities no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2009, 11:30 PM   #72
CityView Jim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,238
Likes (Received): 277

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities View Post
Yeah. I wonder how will they demolish the viaduct? Implosive?
More likely, delicate disassembly - chunk by chunk.
CityView Jim está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 03:43 AM   #73
Black Box
Black Box
 
Black Box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Isthmus of Seattle
Posts: 1,068
Likes (Received): 63

I was a bit shocked by this announcement. I can live with it. By the time this project is completed in 2015, 14 years will have passed since the earthquake. 14 whole years! That is too much time. It took 8 years for our region's leaders to make this decision. Ridiculous. That being said, I look forward to the additional time it will take for the waterfront to take shape. 2015-2017 should be something to look forward to. Hope I'm still alive.
Black Box no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 08:01 AM   #74
RMacherat
Buy used books
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,772
Likes (Received): 278

Me too, Black Box, by my 110th birthday anyway Guys, there is no way the tunnel will be completed in the mid twenty-teens. Are you forgetting where we live? Think Bus Tunnel II and Journey to the Center of the Earth. I'd hope and pray for 2020. And consider this, by then this bust will be over and we'll be well into another boom, traffic will be unspeakably worse because of the additional half-million new residents and then, whoa, maybe the viaduct wasn't all THAT unsteady after all and we decide not to knock it down. Anything can happen. There could be a quake which somehow demolishes the tunnel and leaves the viaduct standing tall and free. Anyway, the tunnel won't be cute anymore because its shortcomings will have been identified and denounced long before completion. Opponents will have successfully defeated a plan to add two more lanes in each direction for only $9 billion more. All in all though, I'm feeling pretty positive about the whole thing.
RMacherat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 06:40 PM   #75
jessejb
Registered User
 
jessejb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,083
Likes (Received): 225

Toll the tunnel. It seems reasonable considering its an express route through the city. I don't think people would complain much.
__________________
Le Tumblr: http://anevergreenstateofmind.tumblr.com/
jessejb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 08:34 PM   #76
Seattlelife
Registered User
 
Seattlelife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Seattle/Brooklyn
Posts: 3,904
Likes (Received): 158

I was very excited to see the region's decision makers decide on the tunnel. There will be nay sayers for everything, let's hope they don't get in the way of the tunnel at all. As was mentioned before, Seattle is already good enough at delaying projects like this.

No more viaduct (I will miss the view from 99 but imo it wasn't worth the space it took up), a renewed connection to the waterfront and a lot more open space for pedestrians downtown. Awesome!

I wasn't too familiar with the politics of the viaduct replacement. Did anyone else find it a little funny that Gregoire said no to a tunnel during the election then brought the idea back after she was elected. Is there any relation or am I making something out of nothing?
__________________
Supersonics Belong in Seattle


Sonicsgate, a must see! Just click and watch.
http://www.sonicsgate.org/
Seattlelife no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 08:36 PM   #77
Seattlelife
Registered User
 
Seattlelife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Seattle/Brooklyn
Posts: 3,904
Likes (Received): 158

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessejb View Post
Toll the tunnel. It seems reasonable considering its an express route through the city. I don't think people would complain much.
I think this should be considered as well.

I've been hearing about potential 520 tolls for years now in order to fund its replacement. Is it ever going to happen? The only toll roads I've ever been on were on the east coast.
__________________
Supersonics Belong in Seattle


Sonicsgate, a must see! Just click and watch.
http://www.sonicsgate.org/
Seattlelife no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 08:52 PM   #78
RMacherat
Buy used books
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,772
Likes (Received): 278

The original 520 had (reasonable) tolls and actually paid itself off.
RMacherat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 09:08 PM   #79
CityView Jim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,238
Likes (Received): 277

I say toll it all. People still have choices and tolls work! Of course, I'm a fan of use-based taxing!! Shouldn't we all be?!
CityView Jim está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2009, 09:12 PM   #80
CityView Jim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,238
Likes (Received): 277

Another thing. I was unaware that work is already underway to move the utilities that hug the viaduct to underground. I'm assuming this is already budgetted for as it is actually being done. Also scheduled to get underway this year is the south end of the viaduct work (replacing south of King Street with a side-by-side surface option.

These things were planned out to be done as they were necessary projects for ANY of the viaduct-replacement options. Good to know that work is already underway for this massive multi-model project. Of course, I'm sure things will change a bit now that we know which replacement option has been chosen.
CityView Jim está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu