Seattle Area Traffic and Roads Thread - Page 5

CrazyAboutCities · January 14th, 2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattlelife

I was very excited to see the region's decision makers decide on the tunnel. There will be nay sayers for everything, let's hope they don't get in the way of the tunnel at all. As was mentioned before, Seattle is already good enough at delaying projects like this.

No more viaduct (I will miss the view from 99 but imo it wasn't worth the space it took up), a renewed connection to the waterfront and a lot more open space for pedestrians downtown. Awesome!

I wasn't too familiar with the politics of the viaduct replacement. Did anyone else find it a little funny that Gregoire said no to a tunnel during the election then brought the idea back after she was elected. Is there any relation or am I making something out of nothing?

At beginning, she wasn't for tunnel because we couldn't afford it (I think she admitted it a while ago that she likes tunnel but worried about unable to fund it). I heard a group of businesses urged her to change her mind about tunnel because it would be good for downtown Seattle and their businesses (I don't know the details of it yet). I guess they convinced her to changed her mind and support deep bored tunnel.

I agree with some guys here about tolling tunnel. That makes senses.

mokocoko · January 14th, 2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seasun

Land Rights:
The 1st Ave sketch would seem to use public right-of-way until it hits Belltown. Post Alley is very narrow. Western Ave has decent width. Anyone know if there's a court precedent or some law that limits landowner control of their property beyond a certain depth? Could someone have mineral (mining) rights below someone else's property in this state?

Like any other tunnel, the government (the state in this case) purchases a lein on the land via eminent domain. The landowner keeps the land but loses the rights to that part of the land.

Seasun · January 15th, 2009, 07:13 AM

Isn't a lien something that is used to establish a right to get paid for improvements done on a property? Maybe this is just a semantics thing but maybe you meant "the government will pay land owners after using eminent domain to take part or all of a property's value".

mokocoko · January 15th, 2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seasun

Isn't a lien something that is used to establish a right to get paid for improvements done on a property? Maybe this is just a semantics thing but maybe you meant "the government will pay land owners after using eminent domain to take part or all of a property's value".

You're right. A lien is something you take on property when someone owes you money. I was thinking about this recently because I'm in the midst of a lawsuit.

What I meant was an easement. My bad, I speaks good english!

Thanks for pointing it out!

pwalker · January 16th, 2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattlelife

I think this should be considered as well.

I've been hearing about potential 520 tolls for years now in order to fund its replacement. Is it ever going to happen? The only toll roads I've ever been on were on the east coast.

Chicago has an extensive tollway system. Orange County, CA has a couple, as does Oklahoma, and Dallas, TX has a toll road.

I like the idea. Users should pay.

G5man · January 17th, 2009, 04:59 AM

When it seems taxpayer dollars are going down the drain to programs the people do not want, people want accountability by pay for what you use. I could not agree moreso.

citruspastels · January 17th, 2009, 08:21 PM

Mercer improvements to get federal stimulus funding?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...imulus17m.html

In case you aren't familiar with the project-

http://www.seattle.gov/Transportation/ppmp_mercer.htm

CityView Jim · January 17th, 2009, 11:13 PM

Mercer AND the Spokane Street Viaduct widening. Seems so little to ask for when these days half a trillion is the soup of the day.

Seasun · January 18th, 2009, 12:59 AM

If any of the viaduct is saved for a combination or art, history and a little utility I suggest the Seneca Street offramp and maybe one structural bay of the viaduct that the offramp connects to. I say this partly because of the major loading dock that Harbor Steps has under the offramp. Because of the loading dock I don't think we'll get a good urban space like the steps in the middle of the Harbor Steps towers. There would probably have to be an elevator and stair at the water end of the bridge. I just walked past the offramp a few minutes ago and maybe there could be about a 10 foot wide planter that would add a little green to the neighborhood. The views from the upper deck are pretty darn good. I might demolish most of the lower deck (maybe just leave enough for a stair landing). I wouldn't leave any of the viaduct in place if it's just a homeless hang-out or can't be designed to be an active link between the water and 1st Ave.

Maybe the offramp and single section of the viaduct should just be a landscaped space with no people access except for maintenance. A bit of the offramp connected to 1st Ave would be demolished so you can't even get on the remaining structure without being Spiderman. I'm pretty sure Richard Haag is still alive. Since he designed Gas Works Park and Victor Steinbruck park I'd be interested to see how he could use a small section of viaduct. As a neighbor I could probably accept the visual blight of seeing some structure if it were covered in plants and a few more birds were singing around here.

Seattlelife · January 18th, 2009, 02:11 AM

We had one of the strongest economies on the planet for over a decade and we weren't able to do anything about the Mercer Mess until the federal government comes up with a stimulus package after the economic downturn? That's the Seattle way I guess.

CityView Jim · January 18th, 2009, 04:14 AM

Like any relatively attractive woman. Why cook when if you properly apply yourself, you can have your dinner paid for.

mhays · January 18th, 2009, 05:21 AM

I'm happy that offramp will go away. I suppose the same cars will still hit the neighborhood from Pioneer Square, but they'll no longer have that car-first light that was installed a year or two ago. (Where pedestrians and heavy traffic intersect in this city, we find out about government priorities.)

A ramp like Virginia might work. At Virginia the train tracks were the main reason for keeping it. But a stub of 20 or 30' could make a good public space. This would require stabilization...as you know Seasun, the ramp jiggles heavily. But maybe the cost would be worth it given the value of open space.

It could also be kept all the way to the viaduct and used as a park and tourist lookout. I wonder if that would be popular among (or opposed by) the neighbors, who would likely be listened to.

Historic preservationists would like either idea, particularly the latter. They wouldn't like the steel(?) framework that would have to be added, or the new railings.

RMacherat · January 18th, 2009, 07:02 AM

The Mercer mess has been around ... since Mercer, I think. As far as this latest incarnation, I'll believe it when they start turning dirt. Anyway, two lanes in and out should be just the solution we've been working on for about five generations of planners.

BoulderGrad · January 18th, 2009, 10:49 AM

After my adventures trying to find my way from Eastlake to my friends apartment on Queen Anne Hill (without going all the way down to Denny). I now care more about fixing the mercer mess than I do about the Viaduct. Even if it doesn't relieve congestion, it will just make getting around that part of town that much easier. If they really wanted to improve things, then they also need to take away Aurora's quasi Highway status, and put in a few cross overs (for the love of god!!).

CityView Jim · January 18th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoulderGrad

After my adventures trying to find my way from Eastlake to my friends apartment on Queen Anne Hill (without going all the way down to Denny). I now care more about fixing the mercer mess than I do about the Viaduct. Even if it doesn't relieve congestion, it will just make getting around that part of town that much easier. If they really wanted to improve things, then they also need to take away Aurora's quasi Highway status, and put in a few cross overs (for the love of god!!).

Aurora is making that area the mess that it is. There's really only three ways to get around or under it (to Queen Anne). Once it's lowered and more streets cross it, life will be better.

Oh, and RMacherat, Mercer will be three lanes in each direction with various turning lanes, bike lanes, and street parking - hence the widening.

CrazyAboutCities · January 18th, 2009, 06:50 PM

I hope Mercer Mess improvements will solve all problems and keep Seattle going but we will see about it when it got done.

I just read on Seattletimes.com that Alaskan Viaduct might not razed until deep bored tunnel opens. I thought it was supposed to be demolished in 2012. We have to live with it for another three years.

BoulderGrad · January 21st, 2009, 01:44 AM

Since we're on the subject of streets and highways being removed/replaced/redone, maybe someone in Tacoma can tell me the exact purpose of I-705?

That looks like it matches the analogy with the Embarcadero more than the Alaskan Way Viaduct does:

-Goes TO rather than THROUGH
-Big ugly thing cutting the city off from the waterfront (granted its tacoma's waterfront which is till pretty industrial).
-Not a very long stretch of Freeway
-Could probably be easily replaced with a Boulevard or something like that and free up a lot of Valuable land.

Just a thought while looking through Google maps. Anyone have any insights?

***Bond James Bond*** · January 21st, 2009, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Since we're on the subject of streets and highways being removed/replaced/redone, maybe someone in Tacoma can tell me the exact purpose of I-705?

Quick route to the heart of downtown Tacoma as well as to north Tacoma.

BoulderGrad · January 21st, 2009, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bond James Bond

Quick route to the heart of downtown Tacoma as well as to north Tacoma.

Right, just like the Embarcadero was supposed to be a quick link between the Bay Bridge and the Golden Gate?

mhays · January 21st, 2009, 07:10 AM

With 705, Pacific gets to be a minor road. I don't like having 705 there, but it's probably better than the alternative.

This is the second time I've argued for road capacity. Really I'm arguing to save surface streets and walkability.

January 18th, 2009, 02:11 AM	#90
Seattlelife Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Seattle/Brooklyn Posts: 3,403 Likes (Received): 62	We had one of the strongest economies on the planet for over a decade and we weren't able to do anything about the Mercer Mess until the federal government comes up with a stimulus package after the economic downturn? That's the Seattle way I guess. __________________ Supersonics Belong in Seattle Sonicsgate, a must see! Just click and watch. http://www.sonicsgate.org/

January 18th, 2009, 10:49 AM	#94
BoulderGrad Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,364 Likes (Received): 41	After my adventures trying to find my way from Eastlake to my friends apartment on Queen Anne Hill (without going all the way down to Denny). I now care more about fixing the mercer mess than I do about the Viaduct. Even if it doesn't relieve congestion, it will just make getting around that part of town that much easier. If they really wanted to improve things, then they also need to take away Aurora's quasi Highway status, and put in a few cross overs (for the love of god!!). __________________ My shrink once said to me: "Maybe life isn't for everyone..."

January 21st, 2009, 01:44 AM	#97
BoulderGrad Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,364 Likes (Received): 41	Since we're on the subject of streets and highways being removed/replaced/redone, maybe someone in Tacoma can tell me the exact purpose of I-705? That looks like it matches the analogy with the Embarcadero more than the Alaskan Way Viaduct does: -Goes TO rather than THROUGH -Big ugly thing cutting the city off from the waterfront (granted its tacoma's waterfront which is till pretty industrial). -Not a very long stretch of Freeway -Could probably be easily replaced with a Boulevard or something like that and free up a lot of Valuable land. Just a thought while looking through Google maps. Anyone have any insights? __________________ My shrink once said to me: "Maybe life isn't for everyone..."

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January 15th, 2009, 07:13 AM	#83
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,561 Likes (Received): 43	Isn't a lien something that is used to establish a right to get paid for improvements done on a property? Maybe this is just a semantics thing but maybe you meant "the government will pay land owners after using eminent domain to take part or all of a property's value".

January 17th, 2009, 04:59 AM	#86
G5man High Speed Rail fan Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 242 Likes (Received): 0	When it seems taxpayer dollars are going down the drain to programs the people do not want, people want accountability by pay for what you use. I could not agree moreso.

January 17th, 2009, 08:21 PM	#87
citruspastels Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 690 Likes (Received): 3	Mercer improvements to get federal stimulus funding? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...imulus17m.html In case you aren't familiar with the project- http://www.seattle.gov/Transportation/ppmp_mercer.htm

January 17th, 2009, 11:13 PM	#88
CityView Jim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,965 Likes (Received): 64	Mercer AND the Spokane Street Viaduct widening. Seems so little to ask for when these days half a trillion is the soup of the day.

January 18th, 2009, 12:59 AM	#89
Seasun Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,561 Likes (Received): 43	If any of the viaduct is saved for a combination or art, history and a little utility I suggest the Seneca Street offramp and maybe one structural bay of the viaduct that the offramp connects to. I say this partly because of the major loading dock that Harbor Steps has under the offramp. Because of the loading dock I don't think we'll get a good urban space like the steps in the middle of the Harbor Steps towers. There would probably have to be an elevator and stair at the water end of the bridge. I just walked past the offramp a few minutes ago and maybe there could be about a 10 foot wide planter that would add a little green to the neighborhood. The views from the upper deck are pretty darn good. I might demolish most of the lower deck (maybe just leave enough for a stair landing). I wouldn't leave any of the viaduct in place if it's just a homeless hang-out or can't be designed to be an active link between the water and 1st Ave. Maybe the offramp and single section of the viaduct should just be a landscaped space with no people access except for maintenance. A bit of the offramp connected to 1st Ave would be demolished so you can't even get on the remaining structure without being Spiderman. I'm pretty sure Richard Haag is still alive. Since he designed Gas Works Park and Victor Steinbruck park I'd be interested to see how he could use a small section of viaduct. As a neighbor I could probably accept the visual blight of seeing some structure if it were covered in plants and a few more birds were singing around here.

January 18th, 2009, 04:14 AM	#91
CityView Jim Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,965 Likes (Received): 64	Like any relatively attractive woman. Why cook when if you properly apply yourself, you can have your dinner paid for.

January 18th, 2009, 05:21 AM	#92
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,393 Likes (Received): 119	I'm happy that offramp will go away. I suppose the same cars will still hit the neighborhood from Pioneer Square, but they'll no longer have that car-first light that was installed a year or two ago. (Where pedestrians and heavy traffic intersect in this city, we find out about government priorities.) A ramp like Virginia might work. At Virginia the train tracks were the main reason for keeping it. But a stub of 20 or 30' could make a good public space. This would require stabilization...as you know Seasun, the ramp jiggles heavily. But maybe the cost would be worth it given the value of open space. It could also be kept all the way to the viaduct and used as a park and tourist lookout. I wonder if that would be popular among (or opposed by) the neighbors, who would likely be listened to. Historic preservationists would like either idea, particularly the latter. They wouldn't like the steel(?) framework that would have to be added, or the new railings.

January 18th, 2009, 07:02 AM	#93
RMacherat Buy used books Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,743 Likes (Received): 92	The Mercer mess has been around ... since Mercer, I think. As far as this latest incarnation, I'll believe it when they start turning dirt. Anyway, two lanes in and out should be just the solution we've been working on for about five generations of planners.

January 18th, 2009, 06:50 PM	#96
CrazyAboutCities Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 8,332 Likes (Received): 17	I hope Mercer Mess improvements will solve all problems and keep Seattle going but we will see about it when it got done. I just read on Seattletimes.com that Alaskan Viaduct might not razed until deep bored tunnel opens. I thought it was supposed to be demolished in 2012. We have to live with it for another three years.

January 21st, 2009, 07:10 AM	#100
mhays Journeyman Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 8,393 Likes (Received): 119	With 705, Pacific gets to be a minor road. I don't like having 705 there, but it's probably better than the alternative. This is the second time I've argued for road capacity. Really I'm arguing to save surface streets and walkability.