Seattle Area Traffic and Roads Thread

[mhays]

Seattle voters would pass any tax necessary, within reason. Let us save any in-town service they want to cut.

[RMacherat]

So would the county voters - everybody would. Riders would figure they were coming out ahead, which they would. Never-get-on-a-bus-so-long-as-I-live'ers would pay more tax gladly because it just opens up the roads more for that Lexus hot rod.

[Bond James Bond]

Last updated February 20, 2009 7:14 p.m. PT
Council votes for a two-way Mercer Street
Project would get stimulus money
By LARRY LANGE
P-I REPORTER

After hearing more concerns, Seattle City Council members agreed Friday to push ahead with the $200 million conversion of Mercer Street to two-way traffic for six blocks west of Interstate 5.

Six council members agreed to lift spending restrictions on the Mercer Street project that were imposed last year when it wasn't clear where the city could get all the money to finance it.

The city still doesn't have all the money in the bank for the work, but officials told the council they're much closer now. The city, state and county have agreed the city can have $50 million in economic stimulus money for the Mercer work. This closes enough of a $64 million funding gap that most members agreed to remove the spending restrictions.

About half of the $492 million in stimulus money for state bridge and highway projects must be earmarked for spending within four months. "If we don't do it now, it's not going to get done," said Councilman Richard McIver.

Critics said there are problems with the design of the Mercer project. Proposed curb "bulbs," sidewalk extensions designed to reduce pedestrian crossing distances, will close off one traffic lane on the south side of the street, lengthening eastbound travel times and making it harder for trucks to move freight.

Given the need for cross-city freight movements, this "is not in the city's best interest," said Suzie Burke of the North Seattle Industrial Association, a business group that has pressed to improve Mercer all the way to Elliott Avenue.

Kirk Robbins of the Queen Anne Community Council, which opposes the Mercer project, said his organization might withdraw its opposition if the bulbs are removed. A Seattle port representative, Mike Merritt, said the project should go ahead, however, and the bulb design issue can be taken up later.

The city plans to start construction this year and finish it by 2011, in time to provide two-way traffic in the corridor before major work begins to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct. Two pro-Mercer council members, Tom Rasmussen and Sally Clark, were unwilling to support the go-ahead now because the federal stimulus money isn't yet in the city's hands. Rasmussen voted against lifting the spending restriction and Clark abstained. A full council vote is scheduled for Monday. The city administration plans to borrow money from the voter-approved Bridging the Gap levy to finance part of the project, saying it will repay that loan and make up part of the shortfall when it sells surplus property it now is buying for the widening work. McIver suggested a limit on borrowing but got no agreement to it.

Grace Crunican, the city's transportation director, said there are several other sources of federal and state grants that could be used, including parts of the money that are available through the Puget Sound Regional Council. "There's several fall-backs," she said. The new design lengthens some travel, but Crunican said it includes wider turning radiuses for trucks to Ninth Avenue and improves travel "for the most part."

[BoulderGrad]

Hmmm.... so I guess there is hope for you crazy suspension bridge lovers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...nd-Sicily.html

[CrazyAboutCities]

What it has to do with Seattle metro area?

[BoulderGrad]

Everyone who had visionary hopes of a suspension bridge across lake Washington rather than another floating bridge. It can be done apparently

[CrazyAboutCities]

Oh gotcha. I still love to have one for Lake Washington but I honestly don't think it will happen.

[Bond James Bond]

http://bhaydenhome.blogspot.com/2009...uspension.html

Early on during project planning, WSDOT considered a range of options for crossing Lake Washington, including replacing the SR 520 floating bridge with a suspension or truss bridge. WSDOT eliminated these bridge designs from consideration for several reasons, most notably lake conditions, cost, and size.

The physical characteristics of Lake Washington create challenges for supporting a suspension or truss bridge. These challenges include depth and a soft lake bed. The lake is very deep, at approximately 200 feet under most of the bridge. In addition, soft soils below the lake crossing make it extremely expensive and difficult to construct the large towers required to support a suspension or truss bridge.

Another cost prohibitive factor of building a suspension bridge across Lake Washington is the length. The bridge would have to span over 7,500 feet, making it the longest suspension bridge in the world. Today, the longest existing suspension bridge is the Akashi Kaikyo Bridge in Japan, spanning 6,527 feet. The Akashi Kaikyo Bridge took 10 years to build at a cost of $3.6 billion. The likely cost of a Lake Washington suspension or truss bridge would exceed $4 billion – the likely cost of the entire SR 520 corridor from Seattle to Bellevue Way.

Finally, the sheer size of the structure would have considerable impacts to views in the area. The towers supporting the main span would need to be about 900 feet tall, approximately 50% taller than the Space Needle. In addition, the two anchor piers required at the ends of the spans would be massive concrete supports.

[G5man]

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/News/2009/02/26-vslsigns.htm

Has anyone seen these at all on I-90 in recent days? If I'm not mistaken, are we the first ones to implement active traffic management on a major arterial in the United States or did someone get to us before then?

[BoulderGrad]

Originally Posted by Bond James Bond

http://bhaydenhome.blogspot.com/2009...uspension.html

The first 2 points are no brainers. But the whole "blocked views" thing is kindof retarded to me. How much would you pay for a house in San Fran that had a view of the Golden Gate Bridge, or an apartment in Brooklyn that can see the Brooklyn bridge? Part of the attraction of suspension bridges is that they are pleasing architecturally (or can be made so), provided they aren't on TOP of the houses along the lake (like saaaay the stupid proposal that keeps popping up for the viaduct).

[Seattlelife]

Governors envision eco-friendly fuels at I-5 rest stops

Gov. Chris Gregoire and her counterparts in Oregon and California are considering a plan they hope would help transform Interstate 5 from a freeway ruled by gasoline burners to a haven for eco-friendly cars and trucks.

By Jennifer Sullivan
Seattle Times staff reporter

OLYMPIA — Gov. Chris Gregoire and her counterparts in Oregon and California are considering a plan they hope would help transform Interstate 5 from a freeway ruled by gasoline burners to a haven for eco-friendly cars and trucks.

The three governors envision a series of alternative fueling stations stretching from the Canadian border to Mexico, creating what has been dubbed a "green freeway."

As the plan stands, motorists eventually would be able to pull off at I-5 rest stops for more than a cup of coffee and roadside relief: They also would be able to charge, or swap out, their electric-vehicle batteries or fill their tanks with biodiesel, ethanol, hydrogen or compressed natural gas.

The idea is drawing opposition from interest groups that say the state-approved stations would compete with nearby private businesses.

But supporters say services for alternative-fuel vehicles are often tough to find near the 1,382-mile interstate. If approved, the project could begin in Washington as early as this coming summer.

It would mark the first time U.S. drivers could travel a long stretch of freeway with easy access to alternative fuel.

"We originally coined it the B.C.-to-Baja green highway," said Jeff Doyle, director of public-private partnerships at the Washington State Department of Transportation. "The three states are trying to find out if we can all march forward together."

The fueling stations and battery swap-out docks would be the first businesses allowed by West Coast states to operate at rest stops, Doyle said. To help companies with their initial costs, they would not be charged rent until they started turning a profit, he said.

The move would need to clear layers of local and federal approval. Supporters say the plan would fit with the nationwide push for green jobs and alternative-energy development, and put the states in line for some of the $15 billion in federal stimulus money dedicated to energy-related programs.

Marty Brown, Gregoire's legislative liaison, said Gregoire, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski are beginning to figure out how to make the plan work. The three briefly discussed the idea last month during a meeting in Washington, D.C.

Priming investment

Doyle said he has been working with the Oregon and California transportation departments for months in developing a way to "partner with next-generation fuel providers to spur private investment."

He said Oregon and California are not likely to start on their ends of the project as soon as Washington, which also is looking at setting up alternative-fuel stations at Park-and-Ride lots.

Separately in Olympia, Rep. Deb Eddy, D-Kirkland, is sponsoring a bill that would give businesses a sales-tax exemption to establish battery charging and exchange stations, as well as create the infrastructure to transform the state automobile fleet from gasoline to electric.

"If we expect to ever meet our state greenhouse-gas goals, we will have to tackle transportation," Eddy said.

Eddy said she is not working with Gregoire and the California and Oregon governors in her efforts, but she said she'd like charging and battery swap-out stations at rest stops by the end of 2015.

Eddy said her proposal, House Bill 1481, is likely to be voted out of the House in coming days.

Business opposition

Jim Whitty, manager of the Innovative Partnerships and Alternative Funding office in Oregon, said his state wants to push forward with the rest-stop fueling stations but is tied up by opposition from the National Association of Truck Stop Operators (NATSO) and national gasoline distribution groups.

NATSO contends the stations would draw potential customers from truck stops, hotels, restaurants and other businesses near rest stops.

The owner of a Eugene, Ore., company that works with I-5 tractor-trailer drivers to reduce greenhouse emissions by upgrading their vehicles, remains hopeful for the rest-stop businesses. Sharon Banks, CEO of Cascade Sierra Solutions, said the proposal would appeal to truckers who choose rest areas over truck stops as places to pull off the freeway.

In the Puget Sound region, Susan Fahnestock, who co-owns Bellevue's Green Car Co., which sells electric, plug-in hybrid and biodiesel vehicles, said the proposal is timely because numerous types of electric cars are hitting the market.

"I think people know this is coming. We have got to start somewhere," Fahnestock said.

Doyle said he's slogging through the legalities of getting the federal government to approve commercial development alongside an interstate. He said that if the plan is approved, the rest stops would not resemble some East Coast rest areas that feature fast-food restaurants and souvenir shops.

Doyle said the state wouldn't want alternative-fuel stations to disrupt rest-area traffic, so contract companies would have to provide small, low-profile setups. Doyle added that rest-stop fueling sites would be self-service and likely to have little or no on-site staffing.

There already are dozens of compressed natural gas, ethanol and biodiesel stations in Washington and Oregon, but the closest hydrogen station is at Humboldt State University in Northern California.

Company interested

Doyle said no contracts for the fuel stations have been signed. But the head of a California-based company that has electric-car service stations in Israel, and is in the midst of expanding to Hawaii, the Bay Area, Australia and Ontario, Canada, has met with Gregoire, Brown said.

The company, Better Place, is led by Shai Agassi, a former Silicon Valley software executive who has been traveling the world touting his vision of a network of electric-vehicle charging stations.

Jeff Miller, who works in global development at Better Place, said that if the company were hired it would build charging stations in Seattle, Portland, San Francisco and Los Angeles, and battery switch-out stations at rest areas about every 40 miles along the I-5 corridor. Electric vehicles, he said, have a battery life of about 100 miles.

Better Place's stations are fully automated and require about five minutes to switch out a battery, which can be less time than it takes to fill up a gas tank, Miller said.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...reeway08m.html

[BoulderGrad]

How's about they stick with the solar/wind powered charging stations and drop the whole bio-fuel and hydrogen non-sense.

[Bond James Bond]

Looks like we're gonna get another "world class" something-or-other.

Friday, March 20, 2009
Last updated 11:34 a.m. PT
Expert: Viaduct bored tunnel would be 'world-class' project
By AUBREY COHEN
SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF

The $1.9 billion tunnel proposed to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct would be the largest-diameter bored tunnel ever, but it is eminently doable, an expert said Friday morning.

"Here in Seattle you have a world-class project on your hands," Peter Chamley, a principal in the New York office of design, engineering and planning firm Arup, said at a forum hosted by the Downtown Seattle Association, which strongly supports a tunnel.

Recent advances in tunnel boring have led to a surge in increasingly large projects, Chamley said. "Ten years ago we wouldn't have been having this debate, but now we're saying: 'Yeah, we can do this. It's easy.'"

The biggest project so far is two 53-foot-diameter tunnels under construction in Shanghai, although a 63-foot-diameter tunnel has been proposed in Moscow, Chamley said. Seattle's proposed double-decker tunnel would have a diameter of 54 feet, with two 12-foot traffic lanes and another 12 feet of shoulders in each direction.

Ron Paananen, director of the Washington State Department of Transportation's Urban Corridors Office, said advances allowed for one large bored tunnel instead of two smaller ones, making this a feasible option.

Friday's forum was intended "not to debate" whether the tunnel was the right replacement for the viaduct but to discus the tunnel, said host Patrick Gordon, chairman of the Downtown Seattle Association and a principal at Zimmer Gunsul Frasca Architects. "We're thrilled about this solution."

One of the ironies in how officials are presenting the new plan is that, in previously promoting the now-dead cut-and-cover option, they emphasized that it would be simpler and cheaper than a bored tunnel.

These days, officials note advantages of a bored tunnel -- primarily that it could be built largely without disrupting current traffic routes. The viaduct would not close until after the tunnel opened in 2015, whereas the cut-and-cover tunnel would have shut down the route for three to four years.

Chamley showed a picture of a tangle of pipes and cables unearthed as part of a cut-and-cover project he's working on in Manhattan.

"We've spend two years just moving utilities, and it's a nightmare," he said. "The last thing you want is a cut-and-cover tunnel."

Officials also are making a big effort to differentiate the Seattle proposal from Boston's Big Dig, which is notorious for cost overruns, delays and, ultimately, deadly falling concrete.

The Big Dig had 80 lane miles of tunnel and more than 160 total lane miles, compared with 8 tunnel lane miles and 14 total miles in the Seattle plan, according to a fact sheet for the local plan.

"Our project is nowhere near the scale or the complexity of Boston's project," Paananen said. He said the Big Dig also had management and budgeting problems that Seattle's project wouldn't replicate.

State officials are starting a required environmental review and working on the tunnel design, and expect construction to start in 2011.

Responding to a question about how earthquakes would affect the proposed tunnel, Chamley said tunnels move with the ground, as evidenced by the fact that the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake collapsed San Francisco's Cypress Viaduct, but didn't damage to the BART train tunnel under San Francisco Bay.

"In an earthquake the best place to be is in a tunnel," he said.

[RMacherat]

We're very lucky not to have management and budget problems here in Seattle. Except maybe for snow removal. Well, and computers. Okay, jails .. and bridges. But that's all, so we should come out fine on this. I'm feeling especially good that it will be World Class.

[CrazyAboutCities]

I am feeling the same thing about this.

I am wondering what will they name this deep bored tunnel? Nickel Tunnel?

[RMacherat]

Interesting question., I can think of a few men and and one woman for sure who would dearly love to have their name on that monument for the ages. Or, being that it's a Washington transportation infastructure monument, sooner than that.

[CrazyAboutCities]

Yeah. I think Mayor Nickel is first person who bought up the tunnel idea to replace Alaskan Viaduct in the first place.

[Seattlelife]

House speaker Chopp warming to tunnels for viaduct, 520 Bridge

By Andrew Garber
Seattle Times staff reporter

OLYMPIA — House Speaker Frank Chopp, the single biggest political obstacle to replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct with a tunnel, is apparently softening his stance toward the $4.3 billion project.

In a rare interview this week, Chopp indicated the proposal is much improved over past versions. When asked what odds he'd give for the tunnel legislation in the House, he said, "I think decent odds."

The comments represent a sharp change from January when Chopp sent out a news release comparing the project to Boston's Big Dig, which cost billions more than originally estimated.

In recent months, Chopp had pushed his own plan for the viaduct replacement: an elevated freeway along the waterfront with retail, office and living space below it.

But Tuesday evening, Chopp had praise for Senate Bill 5768, which passed the Senate by a 43-6 vote and is now being considered in the House. The bill would direct the state to replace the viaduct with a deep-bore tunnel.

He noted the legislation would limit the state's investment to $2.4 billion for the cost of digging the tunnel, plus removing the existing viaduct. He also commended the city of Seattle for promising to pay for a significant chunk of the work, including fixing the waterfront sea wall and making street improvements.

In addition, Chopp talked about legislation that would use tolls on the Highway 520 floating bridge to help pay for a replacement and his support for an interchange on the west side of Lake Washington that includes a tunnel under the Montlake Cut.

The state Department of Transportation says the Highway 520 option that includes the tunnel would cost $6.6 billion — the most expensive of the three alternatives being considered.

Chopp, however, said the costs can be reduced.

Here are excepts from the interview:

Q: The bill calling for the Alaskan Way Viaduct to be replaced with a tunnel is expected to pass out of the House Transportation Committee this week. What happens then?

A: "There's language being talked about. My concern I've had for at least six years is the cost of the effort to replace the viaduct and then who will pay for it if it goes too much. So the fact the Senate bill has $2.4 billion in it, and that's it, in state funding is a very good sign.

advertising

"Secondly, the fact that [Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels] finally agreed to take some of the cost is incredibly different than two years ago. Literally the governor and I sat down with him two years ago and said, 'Mayor if you want a tunnel can the city pay for part of it?' and he said 'No.'

"So that was a major change in terms of limiting it at the originally budgeted amount ... (and) having the city finally own up to some responsibility for the thing is a major change."

(Seattle Deputy Mayor Tim Ceis said the city did have money on the table for one of the previous tunnel proposals, but this time around the city and state are dividing up responsibilities differently. For the current proposal, the city would provide more than $900 million.)

Q: So, will it get a floor vote?

A: "Potentially yes. There still needs to be thought about ... who pays for costs beyond $2.4 billion? We have to consider options there."

Q: What odds do you give it passing the House this session?

A: "I think decent odds."

Q: Do you support a provision in the Senate bill that calls for raising $400 million by tolling the tunnel?

A: "They've done tolling studies before and found out it didn't really work. In that particular corridor if you put tolls there for this particular deep-bore tunnel, the portals are much less accessible. Tolls just don't work. That's what they told us before. "

Q: So if a bill made it out of the House you don't think it would have tolls attached?

A: "I think there needs to be some thought given to who pays and how is it paid for beyond $2.4 billion."

Q: The Highway 520 bill is expected to come out next week. I understand you support "option K" for the west side? (That option includes a tunnel under the Montlake Cut to connect the highway to the University of Washington.)

A: "The community was very organized and working in good faith with the Department of Transportation. In previous years the community groups would be divided about what their points of views are, but now, literally, all the community groups of note in the west side are unified behind plan K. So I support my constituents."

Q: Do you want to get language in the Highway 520 bill that talks about that option and gets it in there?

A: "Yes, absolutely. I don't think we'll say only this plan but rather these components need to be included in order to make it work for both transportation and also the community. ...

"The original option K was more extensive and more expensive, but then they revised it to basically lessen the cost. By the way, the community met with the governor today on their plan and reiterated again that they're willing to work with the state to get the costs into a reasonable range. These original cost estimates are large but we know already they can be reasonably reduced."

Q: You're supporting this option, which includes a tunnel, but you've opposed replacing the viaduct with a tunnel. Why the difference?

A: "I've always been for whatever works. I've worked to make sure we meet the transportation needs as well as do it in a fiscally responsible manner. The original [waterfront] tunnel that was on the ballot two years ago [and was rejected by Seattle voters, along with another elevated freeway] is now recognized as being way too expensive and way too risky."

Q: How do you feel about tolling both bridges, 520 and I-90?

A: "We support tolling, where it makes sense. With 520, yes there's consensus we need to toll 520. And then down the road ... if it makes sense to add additional tolling elsewhere for specific corridor improvements then it makes sense.

Q: But not now?

A: "I don't think it works right now."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._chopp26m.html

I'm glad to see Chopp is warming to the tunnel option. I don't understand the reluctance on tolls though. They seem to work well on the East Coast. Does anyone know more about the lack of interest in Seattle?

[jessejb]

Originally Posted by Seattlelife

Does anyone know more about the lack of interest in Seattle?

Because it is new and would be a change. Simple as that.

[RMacherat]

In the section where he discussed special consideration for the Montlake neighborhood,

A: "The community was very organized and working in good faith with the Department of Transportation."

He left out 'and also very wealthy and lawyered-up.'