daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas

Stadiums and Sport Arenas » Completed | Under Construction | Proposed | Demolished



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: -
Poland 0 0%
Ukraine 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 19th, 2006, 03:03 AM   #241
bubomb
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,093
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Its AlL gUUd
Dont get me wrong i think sport in scotland is on the way up, i mentioned rugby and football cos they have the highest participation among the population in scotland.
I don't know about that - Haggis Hurling is very popular!!
bubomb no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 19th, 2006, 03:06 AM   #242
Its AlL gUUd
Cute but Psycho...
 
Its AlL gUUd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 6,017
Likes (Received): 296

That sounds fun i don't mind trying it, any training centres near london?
__________________
I T S Y
Its AlL gUUd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2006, 03:09 AM   #243
bubomb
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,093
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Its AlL gUUd
That sounds fun i don't mind trying it, any training centres near london?
No, the nearest is Ben Nevis!
bubomb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2006, 03:28 AM   #244
Its AlL gUUd
Cute but Psycho...
 
Its AlL gUUd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 6,017
Likes (Received): 296

The dream, over before it started
__________________
I T S Y
Its AlL gUUd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2006, 04:20 AM   #245
Jack Rabbit Slim
Divemaster!
 
Jack Rabbit Slim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Empire
Posts: 6,607
Likes (Received): 6317

Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
What about a ROI/NI joint bid? They're seperated, aren't they? Or a GB bid?
Well a ROI/NI bid wouldn't work cus they don't have nearly enough decent stadiums, and in case you are unaware, ROI and NI don't get on well together: one chose the United Kingdom, the other chose total independance, and they resent eachother becasue of it.

And as for a GB bid-I assume you mean Great Britain here (sorry for clarifying the obvious, I know, but I gotta be sure)-no way would that happen!
Great Britain would include 4 countries: England, Wales, Scotland and NI, and that is just....well its just crazy talk! Then there's the main point to consider that England have already hosted a Euro Cup comfortably on their own back in 96, and could more then easily do so now!
No, England have their sights set on a World Cup bid....when they've finished dealing with the little matter of the Olympics of course

Out of all of the suggested bids, I think a Scotland/Wales bid would be the most preferable, though even that would be a serious struggle!
__________________
Over ONE HUNDRED MILLION sharks are killed each year by humans, 11,000 sharks every hour of every day.

Many species of the oldest predator on this planet will be extinct in less than 50 years at this rate. They will never be here again.
Jack Rabbit Slim no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2006, 12:56 PM   #246
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,350
Likes (Received): 314

GB is not four countries, it is three (England, Scotland, and Wales). A lot of people confuse GB with UK (which includes Northern Ireland). I guess the other two nations wouldn't want to see England dominate the bid...
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 19th, 2006, 06:35 PM   #247
Jack Rabbit Slim
Divemaster!
 
Jack Rabbit Slim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Empire
Posts: 6,607
Likes (Received): 6317

Yer, you're right about it being 3 countries, that was my bad, but I still don't think you get the main point here, which is that England wouldn't be part of a joint bid in the first place, cus they could easily host a Euro cup on their own! But yes, Scotland would never agree to being 2nd fiddle to England, if, in some bizzare twist, a joint GB bid was to happen.

__________________
Over ONE HUNDRED MILLION sharks are killed each year by humans, 11,000 sharks every hour of every day.

Many species of the oldest predator on this planet will be extinct in less than 50 years at this rate. They will never be here again.
Jack Rabbit Slim no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 12:46 AM   #248
mrtocsin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Kernowek Republyk
Posts: 124
Likes (Received): 0

This bid will fail as San Marino, Leichtenstein and Andorra will make a joint bid at the same time, and UEFA will find far better facilities there instead.
mrtocsin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 05:35 AM   #249
kingdomca
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 411
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubomb
Scotland finished 3rd and above England in the 6 nations. Things can't be that bad!



You really are thick. The SFA have spent loads on developing football for kids in the last 5 years. Rangers have some of the best training facilities in Europe. Hearts have their own superb training facilities and Hibs and Celtic are building their own. The other teams use private high class sports centres and pitches. No buses or driving about looking for a pitch!! How stupid are you?



The 10000 seat rule was a mistake and has been removed.



Rangers now have almost no debt, as they have signed a huge deal with JJB. They also have Paul Le Guen as their new manager and £20 million available for transfers. Rangers made mistakes in past, but all clubs do. No other country with 5 million people would have a hope in hell of attracting Paul Le Guen and the players he is about to sign! Celtics debt is £25 million, not that much and far less than most Premiership clubs.

If Scottish football is so bad, then why do we have the 10th best league in Europe, managers like Paul Le Guen and big name international players from around Europe in our league? Look at Danish football, same population size, but it is totally irrelevant compared to Scottish football. Paul Le Guen wouldn't dream of going to a Danish club. Scottish league crowds are almost double Denmarks and our league is the 10th best in Europe, Denmarks is 23rd.

For 5 million people, our league is amazing!! Just look at the link below! 10th best in Europe. No other country with a similar population is above us or even near us -

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2006.html

The issue was scottish underperformance and you always bring up crowds. Crowds are not a strength in itself. quite the opposite. Having strong crowds means lots of cash which should help performances. Strong crowds make scotland´s performances even worse.
When Rangers lost nearly 10 years in a row in the early qualifying rounds in europe to penniless east european teams after having walked through the scottish league your argument is, look at our crowds...
The weakness of the league was the obvious reason. A team with zero experience of pressure lost in europe. their answer. we need more money, more signings, more debt. Insanity.

Dunfermline apparently bussed around for training grounds a few years ago, and claimed most did. that was part of the reasoning behind getting their artificial stadium surface. To have a place to train in winter that wasnt in poor condition. Of course they went for a poor surface that has since been dug up in more waste chaos.

I do know that a few clubs are getting training grounds now and scottish rugby this year have been impressive. Its still early to say how much it matters and its quite clear for anyone to see that scottish rugby is run phenomenally poor. Most football clubs still dont have good facilities and its sad that this isnt helped. Rangers would benefit more from standards rising at other scottish clubs than throwing money at top coaches.

Rangers cant suddenly invent money. they can just bring forward future money by making long term contracts, however I wish them well. I support scottish sport and the old firm is acting much more sanely now.

As for your boring and pointless go at Denmark, I can only say that Denmark has for a very long time developed far better talents despite having far less cash at our disposal. Creating a national team that has walked all over scotland for 30 years. Thats the point
but again you just return to the money/crowd argument with all this "look we can afford to hire this and that"
Its amazing you cant see that this is what makes it embarrassing. You can do that and still do so poorly.

By the way, scottish football is actually seen here as a dangerous example for danish football. The way we dont want our league to develop with too big a gap, where 2 top clubs are rich but cant become great because they have no real competition as the rest are too poor to have a decent profesional structure.

Scottish football is improving though, especially with Hearts challenging,hopefully it continues. Interesting that Rangers had one of their best runs in europe for a very long time in the same year they do so poorly at home. It seems so obvious that they are far better suited to grind out results in europe when they also experience pressure at home.
kingdomca no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 06:30 AM   #250
bubomb
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,093
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
When Rangers lost nearly 10 years in a row in the early qualifying rounds in europe to penniless east european teams after having walked through the scottish league
Eh? What are you on about??? Rangers have entered the Champions League 13 times, and have qualified for the group stages 7 times out of 13, including being one goal away from a final in 93. The longest they have went in terms of not making the group stages is TWO years in a row, not TEN years. They have only been knocked out the qualifiers by an Eastern European team once.

Overall Rangers have been disappointing in the Champions League, but once again you are grossly exaggerating!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
Dunfermline apparently bussed around for training grounds a few years ago, and claimed most did. that was part of the reasoning behind getting their artificial stadium surface.
Nope, that's rubbish. Players don't go to training facilities in buses. They have cars. Clubs without their own training complexes train at private member clubs. The artificial surface was paid 100% by UEFA, as it was a study by UEFA and earned Dunfermline £1000 a week and saved them over £100000 in pitch maintenance. It is now gone, but Dunfermline got a nice little earner out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
Rangers would benefit more from standards rising at other scottish clubs than throwing money at top coaches.
So instead of signing one of the best managers in Europe, Rangers should donate their money to other clubs???

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
As for your boring and pointless go at Denmark, I can only say that Denmark has for a very long time developed far better talents despite having far less cash at our disposal. Creating a national team that has walked all over scotland for 30 years. Thats the point.
Although Denmark have done better than Scotland in recent years (not surprising considering Denmarks international team has probably been the best small country in the World for the last 15 years), the difference is not that great. Let's look at the last THIRTY years, which you claim Denmark 'walked all over Scotland'

1974 World Cup, Denmark fail to qualify - Scotland qualify
1978 World Cup, Denmark fail to qualify - Scotland qualify
1982 World Cup, Denmark fail to qualify - Scotland qualify
1986 World Cup, Denmark 2nd round - Scotland qualify
1990 World Cup, Denmark fail to qualify - Scotland qualify
1994 World Cup, Denmark fail to qualify - Scotland fail to qualify
1998 World Cup, Denmark Quarterfinals - Scotland qualify
2002 World Cup, Denmark 2nd round - Scotland fail to qualify
2006 World Cup, Denmark fail to qualify - Scotland fail to qualify


In the last 8 years Denmark have done better in the World Cup, but over your THIRTY claimed years, Scotland clearly have done better.


European Championships -

1976 Denmark fail to qualify - Scotland fail to qualify
1980 Denmark fail to qualify - Scotland fail to qualify
1984 Denmark semis - Scotland fail to qualify
1988 Denmark qualify - Scotland fail to qualify
1992 Denamrk champions - Scotland qualify
1996 Denmark qualify - Scotland qualify
2000 Denmark qualify - Scotland fail to qualify
2004 Denmark quarterfinals - Scotland fail to qualify

Clearly Denmark do much better in this one.


This is your problem kingdomca, you simply don't know your facts and you end up grossly exaggerating. Over the last 30 years, Scotland have got a very good record for a very small country, and Denmark have a superb record in the last 15 years. Only in the last 8 years has it gone pear-shaped for Scotland.

At club level, Scotland shits on Denmark from a very high height, and always has done -

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2006.html

Last edited by bubomb; March 20th, 2006 at 06:46 AM.
bubomb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 10:55 AM   #251
MoreOrLess
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,240
Likes (Received): 228

I'd say that your "problem" bubomb is that you focus on those small mistakes(and you know very well he ment the group stages in the champs league) and use them as straw man arguments when your losing the main arguement.

Denmark are hardly alone in being a small country thats been more sucessful than Scotland in the last 20 years and I'd argue that you really should be compairing yourselves with countries who have similar resources not similar populations(like Portugal for example).
MoreOrLess no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 01:39 PM   #252
kingdomca
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 411
Likes (Received): 0

BUBOMB,

UEFA didnt pay for the pitch for Dunfermline, they offered a grant, that was it. Dunfermline paid most of it themselves. they claimed they would no longer having to bus around in winter.

I havent bothered to look up all Rangers euro games, but I am quite sure if you take all their games since the beginning of the champions league, they lose the vast majority of their games to teams that are financially inferior to them.If thats wrong, please correct me.
And despite that they go on about how they lack tv-money to compete with the teams from the big leagues.
It clearly isnt their main problem

And still you just go on about crowds and signings.
Should Rangers actually donate money?? well it would make an awfull lot more sense than what they have done for a long time.
They shouldnt have simply donated but there should have been overall revenue sharing in scotland with particularly money going to the clubs that could realistically challenge the old firm.
I think Rangers could have made money by sharing some money, or just facilities, because both their performances in europe and the value of their tv-deals etc would have increased had they done so.

It would have been unusual in football with such sharing but it happens in other sports and scotland must have the biggest gap between rich and poor in any top division in europe.

But it seems scottish football is improving as a foreinger believed more in scottish football than scots did and invested in Hearts.

Denmark has played in 9 of 11 tournaments since 1984 and both of the 2 failed attempts went to the last match.
I would say Denmark has got so much more out our ressources than scotland.

Denmark has until recently had not only a summer break but a 5 month involuntary winter shut-down and has generally always been about amateur football with no pro football until 1977 and no serious development until the 90´s, most people preferring to follow other sports or foreign football until recently.
Why compare with Denmark? Porto won the CL recently. Most clubs there are extremly poor but I am sure most of the smaller ones have better talent, coaches, and facilities than scotland, which is enough to make a real difference.

That I predict Denmark and scandinavia to grow a formidable league set-up in the next 10 years is another matter. New great stadiums are shooting up everywhere like Stockholm where 2 new venues of 25,000 and 50,000 are planned, crowds are way up, and the forerunner to what will certainly become a scandinavian play-off league has been played for a few years now.

But I dont think there is any point in diverting this thread any further, I am just disappointed with scotland because it has such potential but has wasted it for so long.
If there was enlightened leaders in scottish sport they would be the role model for all the many small european countries instead of the opposite.
kingdomca no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 03:52 PM   #253
bubomb
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,093
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
UEFA didnt pay for the pitch for Dunfermline, they offered a grant, that was it. Dunfermline paid most of it themselves. they claimed they would no longer having to bus around in winter.
The grant coverd most the cost of installing the pitch, and Dunfermline made a £1000 a week renting out the pitch. Christ, players don't go to training in buses!! Have you ever heard of the 'car'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
I havent bothered to look up all Rangers euro games, but I am quite sure if you take all their games since the beginning of the champions league, they lose the vast majority of their games to teams that are financially inferior to them.If thats wrong, please correct me.
Yes, you are wrong. Most of the games lost were against the big teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
That I predict Denmark and scandinavia to grow a formidable league set-up in the next 10 years is another matter. New great stadiums are shooting up everywhere like Stockholm where 2 new venues of 25,000 and 50,000 are planned, crowds are way up, and the forerunner to what will certainly become a scandinavian play-off league has been played for a few years now.
Denmark and Scandinavian teams are unheard of in club football. Scotland is way ahead of them, as seen by the UEFA league rankings. Most people have never heard of Scandinavian clubs, and they rarely feature in the Champions League (apart from Rosenborg). Scotland has problems with the international team, but at club level our stadiums, our league and European results are miles ahead of each Scandinavian country. Just click the link -

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2006.html

You keep on comparing Scotland to the most successful small countries in the world, so things can't be that bad!! Portugal is more than twice the size of Scotland, so this is an unfair comparison, as it is 100% bigger (and again, Portugal is a very very successful country). I could list loads of countries with roughly 5 million populations, and Scotland would be near the top at club level and international level. In fact, at club level, we have by far the best league for a country our size.

Last edited by bubomb; March 20th, 2006 at 04:04 PM.
bubomb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #254
bubomb
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,093
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrLess
I'd say that your "problem" bubomb is that you focus on those small mistakes(and you know very well he ment the group stages in the champs league) and use them as straw man arguments when your losing the main arguement.

Denmark are hardly alone in being a small country thats been more sucessful than Scotland in the last 20 years and I'd argue that you really should be compairing yourselves with countries who have similar resources not similar populations(like Portugal for example).
No, he meant the qualifiers. It was another gross exaggeration from Kingdomca.

and he also doesn't seem to grasp the concept of players driving to training everyday in their own cars!!
bubomb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 06:18 PM   #255
kingdomca
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 411
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubomb
No, he meant the qualifiers. It was another gross exaggeration from Kingdomca.

and he also doesn't seem to grasp the concept of players driving to training everyday in their own cars!!
...to continue in a bus when the designated training ground for the day is in a hopeless condition.

I meant both. The point is that Rangers lose out to financially inferior teams yet cry about their lack of income.
You disagree but I think youre wrong without having looked it up
kingdomca no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 06:39 PM   #256
kingdomca
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 411
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubomb
The grant coverd most the cost of installing the pitch, and Dunfermline made a £1000 a week renting out the pitch. Christ, players don't go to training in buses!! Have you ever heard of the 'car'?



Yes, you are wrong. Most of the games lost were against the big teams.



Denmark and Scandinavian teams are unheard of in club football. Scotland is way ahead of them, as seen by the UEFA league rankings. Most people have never heard of Scandinavian clubs, and they rarely feature in the Champions League (apart from Rosenborg). Scotland has problems with the international team, but at club level our stadiums, our league and European results are miles ahead of each Scandinavian country. Just click the link -

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2006.html

You keep on comparing Scotland to the most successful small countries in the world, so things can't be that bad!! Portugal is more than twice the size of Scotland, so this is an unfair comparison, as it is 100% bigger (and again, Portugal is a very very successful country). I could list loads of countries with roughly 5 million populations, and Scotland would be near the top at club level and international level. In fact, at club level, we have by far the best league for a country our size.
you keep going on about population
Population matters as to what kind of crowds and income you can expect to get.

Scotland has a small population but big support and income. what that shows is how passionate the place is about football.
But you cant then go back to population when comparing the fortunes in club football.
Scotland underachieves when considering the ressources they have. You want to compare scotland to lots of small countries where football isnt a big thing.
Youre not exactly ambitious for scotland then..

But all this is pointless. this "scandinavian teams are unheard of" suggest that we just view this too differently. Do you think scandinavian teams want to be famous in china or something.
Celtic and Rangers may be famous around the world, but so is bird flue and we want neither. We fear "scottish conditions" can undermine leagues.
Football isnt about how many indonesians know your club. or how disjointed you can make a league paying absurd money to average players.

Its about having local clubs in good packed local stadiums playing good competitive football in towns where people live on excellent pitches against opponents that mean something in competitions that mean something.

I predict major scandinavian clubs to get average crowds of 40-50,000 before long but I dont care much how well they do in europe compared to fears of the lower clubs not keeping up but luckily I think they will.
kingdomca no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 08:08 PM   #257
bubomb
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,093
Likes (Received): 0

Only 2 clubs have very large incomes, and 2 years ago Rangers were £75 million in debt (although that was due to mismanagement). It's quite amazing the turnaround at Rangers - the debt is down to £10 million (peanuts for a club the size of Rangers), one of the best managers in Europe is our new manager, and £20 million is available for transfers in the summer. I predict last 8 of the Champions League!

You also keep on going on about the pitches in Scotland for some bizarre reason!! Do they have different grass in Scandinavia or something?? The grass at stadiums and training grounds in Scotland is the same grass as any other country!! Most stadiums in Scotland have pitches like bowling greens!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
I predict major scandinavian clubs to get average crowds of 40-50,000 before long
Have you ever visited planet Earth?
bubomb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2006, 08:23 PM   #258
bubomb
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 1,093
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomca
...to continue in a bus when the designated training ground for the day is in a hopeless condition.
For the last time, no buses are involved when players go to training! You don't have a clue what you are talking about!! Clubs like Motherwell train on superb pitches! Do you think we have inferior grass in Scotland or something?


Scotland neglected its training facilities for a long time, but we are now addressing that problem. Celtic, Aberdeen and Hibs are all going to build new training centres, and there are many other projects at local level about to start or in the pipeline. These are just a few of them -

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2002/04/1436
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Rele...04/07/29171658
http://tinyurl.com/phg6o

Scotland is not a wealthy country like Norway, so it is very hard for local authorities to find money to fund public training facilities.




Last edited by bubomb; March 20th, 2006 at 08:38 PM.
bubomb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2006, 04:21 AM   #259
mrtocsin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Kernowek Republyk
Posts: 124
Likes (Received): 0

Ypu are a stagnde bea bsty bubong chav yet not vut rangers not cvtic yr entreps geez nodand, 1 dacot shen no fuff
mrtocsin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2006, 10:07 PM   #260
Socrates
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Second City of the Empire
Posts: 345
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtocsin
Ypu are a stagnde bea bsty bubong chav yet not vut rangers not cvtic yr entreps geez nodand, 1 dacot shen no fuff
Pardon me
Socrates no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
euro 2012, infrastruktura sportowa, polish stadiums, ukraine, ukraine stadiums, ukrainian stadiums

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu