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Old August 18th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #1041
and802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metros11 View Post
As a Ukrainian currently residing in the United States, and having visited Lviv in July, I can honestly say that in my opinion Euro 2012 is in doubt, at least when it comes to Lviv.

many thanks for your answer. I am very glad you answered in that way, this brings me to conclusion other Ukrainian citizens think that way as well. this is important because you understand it is a long way to be ready. it is good to get a cold shower now.

one thing more - please do not misunderstand me - I read some posts that Ukraine is close to be ready, 'cause all stadiums are almost ready. that way of thinking almost killed me.

to all guys who think that Ukraine is almost ready:

one football match lasts two hours (around 90 min + 15 min break). OK, it is fine you have got a brand-new beautiful stadium and it will do the job.

now, how to organize other 22 hours of a day for football fans for a week ? they need to have a good time + decent accomodation (maybe except English hooligans). please expect more fans than the stadium would accomodate (around 100k)

now let's consider Donetsk.
All Donetsk citizens - please accept my apologies, but this is a "concrete" city, with no attractions at all. that is way I suppose no private investors are willing to build midrange-priced hotels, simply no-one will be visiting the city now and in the future. so nobody will build hotels only for a 2 week tournament. I read somewhere in this thread one of the Ukrainian venue cities will be ready with twelve (12) 5-star hotels. I cannot simply imagine this would be a medicine. football fans represent different money-class society, and some of them (most of them) cannot afford those hotels. taking into consideration for a moment all of them would go to 5-star hotels (1 hotel = 200 rooms) it gives us 2400 beds (far away from enough I suppose), how about international UEFA tournament support, journalists, politicans and their secretaries etc ... what a nonsense is to assume twelve 5-star hotels can do the trick, not to mention that it would be east european 5-star ranking ...

so far I believe I proved Donetsk has got no entertainment & accomodation infrastructure and it will not have.

now roads.
each month the chances get weaker Poland would build the motorway to Ukrainian border. still 236 km are missing. so western european fans will get stuck in Kraków, where the road ends. now they will have to risk 1500 km adventurous trip to Donetsk. you see I was in Ukraine many times (starting 1994). once I was crossing PL/UKR border I saw/met so drunk border officer (who was on duty and was checking our passports) he was not able to keep sitting on his chair in his office. vodka in his head made so much mess that even keeping upright position on his chair was to much for him. that time I was crossing the border with my friend from Belgium. the drunk border officer had seen the belgian passport and then he sad: "now all people from Belgium will be shot down immediately". can you imagine the faces of football fans at the border who will be announced they will be brought to the death wall ? a road from the PL/UKR border to Lviv is , yes what is it ? does not resemble the road at all, you need to have a 4x4 (a real one, not a suv)

now bribes.
has any of you paid an offical ticket for speeding in Ukraine ? strange, my car is with foreign plates and I was usually the only one who was stopped by GAJ officers. usually it was 5 to 20 hryvny for speeding/"entering new county","ecological tax" or whatever you can make up. of course you may say I am stupid I pay, but sometimes it is easier to "support ecological organization via police representatives" and to go (the "procedure" takes up to 30 seconds) than to spend 30 minutes arguing with officials. definately euro 2012 would be the eldorado for all government representatives. another story we had in Odessa (Arkadia, crazy time !!!). at 1 am there were plenty locals completely drunk, but again that time my belgian friend was chosen to be taken to the place where drunk people may have some rest (a kind of police/municipal arrest). not to mention he was completely fine, he had 4 beers only. of course locals were lying pissed-on along the pavement. police left them in peace (no money to get). I still wonder why I had so many advetures when I was with my belgain collegue. I travelled many times through Ukraine without him and it was much better

last thing.
I like Ukraine very much. as I said I was there many times. I was living in different post-soviet countries for some years (from Russia to Uzbekistan). so I am not a greene as you may come to conclusion reading my stories. I have got plenty of that stories. I know how to react, how to behave, but many fans from western europe will be not ready for it


I cross my fingers Lviv(Lwów) would be a place which hosts the tournament. it is a real pity Odessa is out of the game (before it started) both cities are with future.


PS funnily enough Jacek_NL has got the same opinion/same examples !!! see post above. simply he types letters on his keyboard quicker.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 02:28 PM   #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homem View Post
I thought SKM was the rapid urban rail of Gdansk tricity in the north .
Are you talking about another "SKM" ?
SKM is not a proper name, it means Rapid City Rail[way]
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Old August 18th, 2009, 03:37 PM   #1043
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Some new photos from Kharkiv.









Also some photos of the construction of the new terminal in the Kharkiv airport.





The Metallist Kharkiv training center.







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Old August 18th, 2009, 08:50 PM   #1044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMAISTER007 View Post
Also some photos of the construction of the new terminal in the Kharkiv airport.
what is planned throughput of the airport ?

I mean passengers' volume a day ?
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Old August 18th, 2009, 08:56 PM   #1045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
what is planned throughput of the airport ?

I mean passengers' volume a day ?
Sorry but I have no idea, ask some of the other Ukrainians here about the airport.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 02:03 AM   #1046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
what is planned throughput of the airport ?

I mean passengers' volume a day ?
Ukrainians don't really use airports, but they use railways.
i can definitely tell you that the traffic is very low and i searched through internet and i found nothing about the airport traffic...
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Old August 19th, 2009, 08:07 AM   #1047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukraine View Post
Ukrainians don't really use airports, but they use railways.
I know that. for example platskarta is unforgetable experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukraine View Post
i can definitely tell you that the traffic is very low
this is not good. if a ground service used to deal only with limited number of passengers, then during tournament we can expect a lot of mess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukraine View Post
i searched through internet and i found nothing about the airport traffic...
strange. usually this is the most important information about each airport.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 07:32 PM   #1048
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Again, I'm only speaking for the situation in Lviv. The airport itself has 2 gates. One for incoming flights, and one for outgoing flights. It took us about 30 minutes to get through custom when coming in, and a little less when leaving. From what I saw, they have anywhere between 2 to 6 flights a day. Obviously there is no way that this airport could handle the traffic for Euro2012. There are talks of building a brand new terminal, however I saw absolutely nothing to indicate that any work has taken place.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 08:23 PM   #1049
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It's no wonder, who would like to build a brand new airport for 2-6 flights a day? That is why no private investor turned up for the tender. Perhaps local government should be the developer - financial feasibility would not be such an issue then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by metros11 View Post
Again, I'm only speaking for the situation in Lviv. The airport itself has 2 gates. One for incoming flights, and one for outgoing flights. It took us about 30 minutes to get through custom when coming in, and a little less when leaving. From what I saw, they have anywhere between 2 to 6 flights a day. Obviously there is no way that this airport could handle the traffic for Euro2012. There are talks of building a brand new terminal, however I saw absolutely nothing to indicate that any work has taken place.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 11:15 PM   #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacek_nl View Post
It's no wonder, who would like to build a brand new airport for 2-6 flights a day? That is why no private investor turned up for the tender. Perhaps local government should be the developer - financial feasibility would not be such an issue then...
who of us wants to invest money and get no return ?



I remember when Mrs Margaret Thatcher visited Poland in early 90s and met our Prime Minister Mrs Hanna Suchocka. that time we were sure we would get a lot of profits from West Europe as a reward of being an active member of destroying the Yalta agreement. Mrs Suchocka said smotheling like this: ok now please help us, we are very poor, but we helped you to dismount the Warsaw Pact & Soviet Union. Mrs Thatcher replied in very polite manner: we (West Europe) cannot help you (Poland). you (Poland) have to work hard and at first help yourselves.

it took us 20 years to change our minds. still work in progress. still a lot of things to do. personally I must admit we coul be far more advanced. a result ? still in most western european nation minds Poland is recognised as the XIX century country (with all its disadvantages).

now, why that example ?

to understand that Ukraine is as much worthy to private investors as all Ukrainians can bring in.

foreign tourists (except Russian nation) do not visit Ukraine (corruption, not seen as 100% safe country), so no market demand for mid-range hotels, new airport, etc that is way in Lviv airport you still have got 1 gate for outbound flights and 1 for inboud flights (ex-soviet nations travel in railway cars, or better platskarta cars)

so my conclusion is only government can provide required facilities (private investors ar not willing to loose money) and this is a real chance because I strongly believe that all Ukrainian politics in thier own (of course very selfish) interest will do their best (also some impossible things, like a new roof of Kiev stadium) to prepare Ukraine for euro 2012 . all in all if it works out it gives you a ticket to a president/prime minister chair.

but the problem will remain - people minds ....

PS nobody expects you can change the 46 million nation within some years (except Kim Ir Sen)
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Old August 21st, 2009, 04:00 PM   #1051
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Quote:
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20.08.2009









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Old August 22nd, 2009, 02:59 PM   #1052
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International Broadcasting Center in Warsaw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homem View Post

Good analysis. Invest millions does not make much sense if attitudes do not evolue. It takes a lot of time and real political will.
For now, unfortunately, Ukraine has a bad reputation (corruption,insecurity, terrible stereotypes of Ukrainian girls...) and is not very attractive to potential travellers. It appears as a erzatz of Russia, but without the exotic fantasies about Russia.
Optimism and hope will be essential , but do Ukrainians still have it ?
below the offical news from Polish website (could be of course "not neutral")

International Broadcasting Center in Warsaw


"As revealed by the Polish Football Association, the decision was taken after an in-depth research conducted both in Poland and Ukraine and following a detailed assessment of various locations in Warsaw and Kiev. The criteria taken into account in selecting the seat included: technical infrastructure (room, power supply, floor strength, roof height), additional infrastructure at the location (cafeteria zones, restrooms, storage area, car parks, area for satellite transmitters), facilities outside the IBC premises (restaurants, supermarkets, pharmacies, hospitals, laundries), public transportation, quality of accommodation, its prices and number of beds available as well as financial considerations."


so looks like the infrastructure becomes the main factor.

some people say it is a step towards the final in Warsaw. can you comment on that ?

do you guys have any confirmed information about any road rehabilitation/construction from Lwów to Polish border ?
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 04:55 PM   #1053
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It's thread about stadiums, so other information writing here - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466744
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 04:59 PM   #1054
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While crying, you, haters, should read last page, and then at least watch news and find that

Rada overrides president's veto on amendments to state budget concerning Euro 2012 financing

Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
some people say it is a step towards the final in Warsaw. can you comment on that ?
Yes, this is bad news for Kiev. International Broadcasting Center usually building in country, which will host final.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 08:39 PM   #1055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perun View Post
It's thread about stadiums, so other information writing here - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466744
thanks. I did not know that. I read it. anyway this thread is more challanging, because the one you pointed out looks like a glorification of Polish supremacy and I think already left by Ukrainians ....

PS it is easy to compare yourself to Ukraine, why won't we start that game (comparison) with Germany ?
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 09:01 PM   #1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
PS it is easy to compare yourself to Ukraine, why won't we start that game (comparison) with Germany ?
Your point being? Germany isn't hosting EURO 2012, Poland and Ukraine are hosting it.


PS. Mods, please clean this thread from those retarded tags and political spam replies. Thank you in advance.

Last edited by kartezjo; August 22nd, 2009 at 09:28 PM.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 01:06 AM   #1057
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blah blah blah.
good news guys.
metalist stadium is opening december 5.
thats two stadiums for ukraine complete this year
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 01:23 AM   #1058
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blah blah blah.
good news guys.
metalist stadium is opening december 5.
thats two stadiums for ukraine complete this year

no surprise really. prive money was invested by Mr. Yaroslavskiy. as in my previous posts: I am sure Ukrainian stadia would be on time. where private money is involved, most often it is well considered decission.

any news on my favourite Lviv ?
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Old August 26th, 2009, 06:48 PM   #1059
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any news on my favourite Lviv ?
did the project die ?
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Old August 26th, 2009, 07:37 PM   #1060
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Quote:
did the project die?
and802:
Our patient rather alive than dead =)
Something still goes on: http://stadion.lviv.ua/
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