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Old September 7th, 2008, 06:54 PM   #21
elfabyanos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post

Next they'll have to lose those third rails and go with overhead catenary for train power. The ones in that image will not clear outside wheel bearings.

Mike
Please explain what you mean about wheel bearings, I don't follow. The train in the image above is a class 375/6, which is a dual voltage unit that has overhead catenery, just not in use in the picture. It also has third rail shoes, which it mainly uses. At present the only examples of the class in operation that uses both power sources are the near identicle class 377s that operate between Brighton and Watford (the only main difference being the couplers used), it was originally envisaged the units above would also be used on the high speed line, which hasn't come to pass.

There is no conflict between 3rd rail shoes and European loading guage. Eurostar used to have 3rd rail shoes, as do the class 92 cross Channel Tunnel freight locos.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 01:34 AM   #22
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I would envisage that any new High Speed Line constructed as a result of the Network Rail Report would be built to the W9 standard and allow European Trains to operate along that network. I would hope that any future new construction would be built to that standard to be honest....
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Old September 8th, 2008, 01:45 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salif View Post
The UK really needs to implement what is accepted as the European standard loading gauge on it's primary routes at least.

The plan to re-open the great central railway from the Channel Tunnel to Liverpool would see the UK have it's first proper European 'classic' line. Then hopefully with HS2 being built at some point work could start on re-gauging the west coast mainline and so on.

The problem would be having to modify existing trains to cope with bigger gaps to the platforms whilst enough of the network is upgraded to justify a large scale order of wider profile trains to replace them.

But I think having inter-laced tracks at platform edges could solve that temporarily. But then there's needing to refit OHE trains with higher reaching pantographs to reach heightened wires.

Interesting fact: the bridge which crosses the great western mainline just outside Paddington station was recently replaced deliberatley leaving enough room for double decker trains.
for freight trains only the locomotives have restrictions on the british gauge.

standard containers can be hauled on the british gauge ... and putting double decker containers on european railways ... yah .. right ...
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Old September 8th, 2008, 09:58 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
standard containers can be hauled on the british gauge
Only on a few selected routes. Deep sea containers are becoming the norm - 9ft standard containers can go to lots of places, whereas the 9ft 6 in ones can't - Network Rail is investing a lot upgading the network so that deep sea containers can travel on more routes. For example Southampton to the midlands.
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Old September 10th, 2008, 08:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Please explain what you mean about wheel bearings, I don't follow. The train in the image above is a class 375/6, which is a dual voltage unit that has overhead catenery, just not in use in the picture. It also has third rail shoes, which it mainly uses. At present the only examples of the class in operation that uses both power sources are the near identicle class 377s that operate between Brighton and Watford (the only main difference being the couplers used), it was originally envisaged the units above would also be used on the high speed line, which hasn't come to pass.

There is no conflict between 3rd rail shoes and European loading guage. Eurostar used to have 3rd rail shoes, as do the class 92 cross Channel Tunnel freight locos.
'Outside wheel bearings' are wheel hubs and frame/bogie assemblies that are mounted on the outsides of the wheels, usually extending well outside of the profiles of the wheels. The third rails in that image look to be too close to the running rails to clear such bearing/bogie assemblies.

Mike
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Old September 10th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
'Outside wheel bearings' are wheel hubs and frame/bogie assemblies that are mounted on the outsides of the wheels, usually extending well outside of the profiles of the wheels. The third rails in that image look to be too close to the running rails to clear such bearing/bogie assemblies.

Mike
Oh right. They're not, they just look it in the picture. All trains will be able to travel on the tracks above and clear the third rail, they aren't very high. All continental freight trains through the channel tunnel already do travel on these tracks, all UK trains would clear it - and I think have to, I'd be surprised anyway if there was a single train that couldn't considering how low the rails are to be an obstruction.

If you want to know more about the southern region third rail network go here http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/segnews.html, here's a photo to show the Eurostar's pick up shoe when it still used these routes;

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Old September 28th, 2008, 05:11 PM   #27
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Dead bird, nice.

The Eurostar shoe is retractable, as when it is extended, it causes the train to foul the French loading guage.

Haven't they all been removed now anyway?
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Old September 29th, 2008, 10:54 AM   #28
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Yes.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 01:43 AM   #29
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Automatic and manual changing gauge

From the thread I opened in spanish forum Cambiadores automáticos de ancho de vía

---------------------------------------------------

Gauges in World


Wikipedia

Biggest : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...auge_world.png
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Old September 28th, 2010, 01:44 AM   #30
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Spanish system

Quote:
Cambiadores automáticos de ancho de vía


Febrero 14, 2010
por Trenes-Inside





Definición

Un cambiador de ancho es una instalación donde se realiza el cambio de ancho en un vehículo ferroviario para adaptarlo a un ancho de vía diferente. Los sistemas de cambio automático permiten a los trenes pasar de una línea con un ancho ibérico (ancho ibérico = 1668 mm.) a otra con ancho UIC o internacional (1.435 mm.) o viceversa, variando la distancia entre las ruedas, sin cambiar los ejes ni los bogies, de forma automática y mientras pasa el tren por la instalación. También es posible cambiar el ancho a otras medidas, como de ancho 1520 mm en países bálticos al ancho internacional 1435.

En España los puntos de cambio de ancho están situados en la frontera con Francia, y en otros lugares de la geografía española donde coexisten líneas con diferentes anchos, entre las que se encuentran las nuevas líneas de alta velocidad en ancho internacional.




Sistemas de cambio de ancho

En la red ferroviaria española opera material rodante dotado de dos tecnologías de cambio de ancho automático: la tecnología TALGO RD (Rodadura Desplazable) empleado en vehículos TALGO y la tecnología BRAVA (Bogie de Rodadura de Ancho Variable Autopropulsado) empleada por CAF, en trenes autopropulsados de viajeros diesel y eléctricos. Desde el punto de vista de la infraestructura, los cambiadores pueden dotarse de una sola plataforma, bien TALGO o CAF, o de un sistema dual de plataformas, que permiten el cambio de ancho para ambas tecnologías, independientemente del vehículo.

Para que lo veáis más claro, aquí os dejo un vídeo del sistema BRAVA



También podéis ver como funciona el sistema de TALGO.


En 2001 se construyó un prototipo de cambiador dual en el tramo de ensayo de Medina-Olmedo. Se trata del Cambiador de ancho TCRS01, que permite compatibilizar los dos sistemas (Talgo y CAF) en una misma instalación. Este cambiador, mediante un conjunto de mecanismos impulsados hidráulicamente, permite abatir una plataforma y sustituirla por otra. Por primera vez, coexistieron las dos tecnologías. (Fue probado en el tramo de ensayo Olmedo – Medina del Campo y puesto en servicio en Plasencia de Jalón en 2003).



En 2005 se presentó la variante de cambiador dual TCRS02, en la que el movimiento de las plataformas se realiza en plano horizontal simplificando el sistema electro-hidráulico y de control necesario para maniobrar la instalación. Las primeras aplicaciones de esta tecnología, patentada por Adif, fueron en Valdestillas, Medina del Campo y Chamartín (diciembre 2007- marzo 2008). Estos tipos de cambiadores mantienen plataformas independientes para cada cambiador. La novedad de este cambiador reside en que las plataformas de cambio de ancho de Talgo y CAF reposan en posición horizontal dentro del foso sobre una estructura única formada por dos perfiles. Para el desplazamiento se utiliza un sistema mecánico-hidráulico: dos cilindros elevan la guía sobre la que se deslizan los perfiles y otros tantos empujan el conjunto perpendicularmente al eje de vía hasta colocar la plataforma deseada en su posición; entonces baja hasta reposar sobre las bancadas metálicas que están ancladas al foso.

En respuesta a la experiencia con ambas tipologías de cambiador de ancho automático en el año 2006 la empresa ADIF presentó un estudio en el que se combinasen las características mas importantes de los cambiadores TCRS01 y TCRS02 y en el que se integrasen en una sola plataforma las tecnologías de cambio de ancho TALGO y CAF: prototipo TCRS03. Actualmente se encuentra en fabricación el prototipo de TCRS03 que se instalará en Roda de Bará.

En 2008 la empresa TRIA cedió los derechos de patente de un sistema de cambio de ancho universal TCRS04 Unichanger a Adif, en el que se sigue trabajando en el desarrollo del primer prototipo (consorcio formado por CAF, TALGO, TRIA, ADIF, Fundación de los Ferrocarriles y CEIT) apto tanto para las tecnologías españolas como para los sistemas polaco y alemán. La ventaja añadida de este sistema es que además de hacer posible el paso de los vehículos con cualquier sistema, permitirá que en un mismo tren puedan coexistir coches o vagones de distintas tecnologías.




Cronología
El 12 de noviembre de 1968 se realizó el primer viaje directo de un tren entre Madrid y París sin efectuar transbordo de viajeros en la frontera. Una composición Talgo III RD alcanzó el país vecino mediante la instalación de cambio de ancho automático situado en Irùn/Hendaya. El 1 de junio de 1969 comenzó la explotación comercial del sistema de cambio de ancho conocido como el sistema automático de rodadura desplazable RD Talgo en Port Bou, para la relación directa Barcelona-Ginebra.

El cambiador de anchos sistema Talgo de 2ª generación se implantó en la línea Madrid-Sevilla, concretamente en Majarabique (Sevilla), en el Higuerón (Córdoba), y en Madrid-Atocha. En el año 1998 se pone en marcha el primer cambiador para tecnología de cambio automático CAF, bogie Brava, en Majarabique.

Posteriormente, durante el año 2001 se construye en el tramo de ensayo de Olmedo-Medina el primer cambiador dual vertical TCRS01 experimental. Con motivo de las obras de la LAV Madrid-Zaragoza-Barcelona-frontera francesa, en el 2002, se planifica la puesta en funcionamiento de varios cambiadores: tecnología TCRS01 en Plasencia de Jalón y en Zaragoza-Delicias, y tecnología Talgo en Lleida. Posteriormente se construye el cambiador de ancho doble vertical en Roda de Bará en el año 2006 (Tarragona), y el cambiador de Bobadilla en el año 2006 en la Línea de Alta Velocidad Córdoba-Málaga.




En 2007, durante la construcción de la LAV Madrid-Valladolid se proyecta poner en servicio los siguientes cambiadores de ancho: TCRS01 en Valladolid-Campo Grande, y TCRS02 (dual horizontal) en Chamartín, Valdestillas, y Medina del Campo.

Actualmente existen 8 dispositivos de una sola plataforma de cambio automático, ya Talgo, o Caf y se localizan en Portbou, Irún, Atocha, Majarabique (Talgo y CAF), Huesca, Córdoba, Lleida y Puigverd. Éstos tres últimos dejaron de funcionar una vez inauguradas las líneas de alta velocidad hacia Málaga y Barcelona, siendo sustituidos por los de Antequera y Roda de Bará.

Los sistemas duales se sitúan en Plasencia de Jalón, Zaragoza-Delicias, Antequera, Valladolid y Roda de Bará. En Chamartín, Valdestillas, y Alcolea de Córdoba se han instalado cambiadores duales de última generación.



Detalles
Fuera de nuestras fronteras hay un sistema de cambio de ancho polaco SUW 2000, instalado en la frontera polaco-lituana. Otras experiencias son el alemán Rafil Type V (en pruebas), y está en desarrollo el sistema japonés de cambio de ancho.


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Old September 28th, 2010, 01:46 AM   #31
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Talgo System



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Old September 28th, 2010, 01:47 AM   #32
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CAF System

Intercambiador de CAF



Quote:
Pues eso al igual que el otro video ,pero este es el sistema de eje brava ( caf) tambien en majarabique sevilla
Magnifico plano del video



Paso del S/130 por el intercambiador.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 01:51 AM   #33
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Talgo System



Quote:
http://videotren.com/
Toma desde cola de tren al paso por intercambiador de Madrid Atocha.
Cambio de ancho de ejes tren Talgo
Cambio automático de ancho de vía. Sistema Talgo.

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Old September 28th, 2010, 01:52 AM   #34
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Quote:
Funcionamiento de un cambiador de ancho de vía dual. Tecnología Talgo y Brava. extraido de http://descubrelaaltavelocidad.com.

Blog estación de Albacete
http;//eldelatiamaria.onoblogs.com
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Old September 28th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #35
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Very good explanation, but in french

Cambio de ancho TALGO



Quote:
En este vídeo se explica paso a paso, como funciona el sistema Rodadura Desplazable de Talgo. Nota: está en francés, pero se entiende
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Old September 28th, 2010, 02:02 AM   #36
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Moldovia - Roumania, manual change

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Old September 28th, 2010, 02:05 AM   #37
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Ukraine - Austria

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Old September 28th, 2010, 02:07 AM   #38
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Old October 22nd, 2010, 12:44 AM   #39
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an old thread already - still a most topical issue -

now that in England the IEP is looming and procurement of electrification of the GWML and MML is way ahead ; have there been any considerations to bring the loading gauge on a wider , say European spec ??

I know HS2 is part of the future, but seemingly Britain has to deal without doubledeck trains where on the Western continent 50 to 70% rolling stock is double deck. It'll bring them into capacity problems - trains can not ever be made longer and longer , platforms can not always be lenghtened.

Does Brunel turn around in his grave when they rebuilt his tunnels ... ohh wait , he made them wide enough ...

I'm also thinking about multi billion projects for commuter lines with many new tunnels like Thameslink , Crossrail ... ?
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Old November 8th, 2010, 06:35 PM   #40
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Rail specs; Bends, widths, steps etc.

Hi everybody.

I'm playing a little around in GoogleEarth, and are drawing lines for rails, trams, light rail and metro, at places i think they are needed. But its starting to get a bit more serious, so if anybody could tell me some details of rails, as with the title, i know the rail width of 1435 mm in Europe, but for the train? The suburb in Denmark are using extra width trains, which have 6 seats in a row! So I want to know more about these things!
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