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Old October 15th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #121
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very groovy and comfy!
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Old October 15th, 2008, 04:05 PM   #122
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merveilleuse ville!
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Old October 15th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #123
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Nice buildings
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Old October 15th, 2008, 08:15 PM   #124
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Montreal has been compared to neighboring Toronto and US cities. I'd like to make a small comparison to Paris, since Montreal is the 2nd biggest French-speaking city (in the Industrialized World). Montreal is almost the complete opposite of Paris. Montreal is so laid-back and carefree in areas where Paris would most likely be the conservative counterpart. Paris has so many esthetic rules and desire to maintain a high-level of homogeneity. In Montreal, you see people do with their buildings and land what in Paris would not be allowed. That's where Montreal is more American, even if Berlin is in Europe and is known for being unconventional like Montreal.










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Old October 16th, 2008, 12:43 AM   #125
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By American, I'm assuming you mean the American continent.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 01:03 AM   #126
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well from what i've seen, i think Montreal resembles Paris only in terms of architecture, and even then, only with some buildings i've seen. Montreal is way more American than European - that is my impression
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Old October 16th, 2008, 02:19 AM   #127
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well from what i've seen, i think Montreal resembles Paris only in terms of architecture, and even then, only with some buildings i've seen. Montreal is way more American than European - that is my impression
I agree, but Montreal hardly looks like Paris architecturally. If anything, Le Vieux Montreal has a few buildings from colonial times or maybe neo-colonial that looks a bit breton (from the Brittany region of France), but not Paris. Actually, this is much more true of Quebec City. But Montreal looks more like neighboring Toronto or an American city of the Northeast than Paris. Colors, rowhouses, stoops, and Victorian architecture are not Parisian at all--in any case, they are more like London, and much more closely related to NYC, Boston and even Toronto.

But I was referring to the more laid-back policies and culture of how land use is used in Montreal vs Paris, where very specific codes spell how buildings and streets must look.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 05:46 AM   #128
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If I had to compare Montreal to a European city, I'd say it looks more like London than Paris.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 06:33 AM   #129
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Montreal is no more European than Toronto. They're both quintessentially Canadian culturally. The lifestyles and city built form are similar except one has more influences from France, the other England.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 07:19 AM   #130
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I think that you guys are missing the point. Montréal is Montréal. It doesn't try to 'look' like anywhere else. It doesn't attempt to 'be' anywhere else.. it's Montréal!! It has a huge 19th century English influence coupled with an 18th century French influence wrapped up in a 20th century North American influence.

To American tourists, Montréal seems like 'Paris in Noth America'. To tourists from the rest of the world it's 'different from everywhere else in Canada'. To people from France, it's 'nos cousins en Amerique du nord' yet absolutely not France nor Paris.

I'm sorry isaidso but Montréal is definately not like the Canada of today. Today's Canada is America lite: big box, franchise, "Did you watch ER, CSI, Grey's Anatomy..tonight?" Here, we have our own TV, our own cinema, our own identity which, I'm sorry to say, much of the rest of Canada is sadly lacking. Think of any other Canadian city style anything then think of any Montréal style anything. 0-10? Exactly!

It's quite unlike any other place in the world: there are simply no other comparisons.

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Old October 16th, 2008, 07:24 AM   #131
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I disagree Isiado, as someone who has lived in both Montreal and Toronto, I note several more european aspects of the built form of Montreal vs. Toronto. Per example, there are several more narrow, one-way streets in Montreal, including several curved streets, especially around the mountain and in neighbourhoods like Outremount, Westmount and Mont-Royal among others. Toronto is strictly based on a grid pattern of two-way streets, much like New York, Chicago or Philadelphia. In Montreal, there are many more old european houses and buildings scattered throughout. Toronto has few and far between in this category prefering the two-storey to the three or four storey base of development along major commercial roads. Toronto is decidedly more modern in its design and buildings (and by modern I mean in the last 50 years i.e. lots of square 60's and 70's architecture), and though they are becoming more alike in their respective densities (urban vs. suburban), Toronto is far and away the master of the Canadian explosion of suburban planning and adoption, hence the invention of the sub-center or sub-CBD centered on a large shopping mall a la MCC or SCC, something purely North American in purpose and design. In addition, Toronto has traditionally favoured the construction of larger and larger highways over development of a mass transit system able to keep up with public demands. Hence the 401, with it's 16 lanes, and a poorly funded subway with only two axes for such a large city vs. a clean and well kept and liked metro in Montreal, and a buried or canyoned highway in the center of Montreal with limited lanes and more hidden entrances and exits. Some of the more suburban aspects of North American culture are perhaps around the corner for Montreal, though the spirit of the city is decidedly against them, and thankfully. Lastly, though old Toronto consist of two streets with a couple of nice buildings, and lasts a mere four blocks, Old Montreal, and its strictly European design and feel is an entire neighborhood with museums, a waterfront, city hall and a character which rivals a stroll in a small corner of central Paris or London, something you don't get staring at BCE place in the face when your walking around St. Lawrence Market. Its not that its better or worse, they both have advantages, but by European you surely must rate much Montreal the more similar.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 07:49 AM   #132
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Habfanman is right, Montreal is Montreal and has its own history/look. I don't get much of a European feel in Montreal, personally, at least no part of Europe I know of. Probably moreso in Quebec City, so I'd agree with edubejar on this one. I don't find Montreal any more like Paris than Toronto is like London. Both have colonial influences, but both are very North American cities, with loads of freeways, concrete overpasses, suburbs, etc.... Both cities were founded by European cultures, and both cities still use a decended form of French or English, both European languages. Montreal had a 100 year head start on the built environment, but both were boom towns during the Victorian period, and both show that with many thousands of Victorian buildings, although the styles are in general quite different, and the two cities are quite different. I'd say a person from Europe would see Colonial European influences in our cities, but not particularly "European".
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Old October 16th, 2008, 08:27 AM   #133
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What kills me is that us Canadians lump all of Europe into one.. European!! It's as if Danes and Italians; Germans and Spaniards; French and Norwegians are all the same.. Europeans!!

If it's more than 50 years old and it doesn't look like suburban Cleveland then it must be.. EUROPEAN!!

Can't possibly be our own look now can it? Noooo! In Canada, it's 'let's look like everywhere else'. A round of green-glass condos and a side order of Starchitecture.. hold the originality please.

You'd think we'd know better by now. Ooops! Maybe we're too arrogant/stupid... maybe we watch far too much American television?

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Old October 16th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #134
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It mystifies, and saddens me a bit, too, habfanman. There does seem to be an uprise of neo-colonialism in the New World, where many people struggle to define themselves or their cities in terms of how "European" they are. As you point out, what is "European"? Europe is a vast continent with a myriad of cultures and styles.
New World cities from North America, South America, Australia, etc.. have varying quantities of Colonial architecture (and Montreal is blessed with a very good collection), but I think we should look at that as being part of our own unique style and history, rather than trying to hitch a faux-cultural ride on nations from thousands of miles away, whom our forefathers left hundreds of years ago.
As for architecture, I'd say there probably has always been a lot of copying of architectural styles around the Western World, going right back to the 1600's when colonisation began here. Most of our older churches, for example, are smaller colonial versions of the cathedrals back home in Europe. I suppose you could say our original "starchitecture" was building half size replicas of cathedrals in Europe. The trend of sameness escalated with the advent of post World War II International Style Architecture, and later versions such as the exposed concrete Brutalism, or Post Modernism. Much of our architecture built since 1950 is very, very similar in many cities in the Western world. I suppose in this modern Global Village, people like to follow fashion trends, be they in clothing design, or music, or architecture.

In any case, do you have some more pictures of Montreal?
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Old October 16th, 2008, 08:34 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habfanman View Post
I think that you guys are missing the point. Montréal is Montréal. It doesn't try to 'look' like anywhere else. It doesn't attempt to 'be' anywhere else.. it's Montréal!! It has a huge 19th century English influence coupled with an 18th century French influence wrapped up in a 20th century North American influence.

To American tourists, Montréal seems like 'Paris in Noth America'. To tourists from the rest of the world it's 'different from everywhere else in Canada'. To people from France, it's 'nos cousins en Amerique du nord' yet absolutely not France nor Paris.

I'm sorry isaidso but Montréal is definately not like the Canada of today. Today's Canada is America lite: big box, franchise, "Did you watch ER, CSI, Grey's Anatomy..tonight?" Here, we have our own TV, our own cinema, our own identity which, I'm sorry to say, much of the rest of Canada is sadly lacking. Think of any other Canadian city style anything then think of any Montréal style anything. 0-10? Exactly!

It's quite unlike any other place in the world: there are simply no other comparisons.
Montreal is Montreal, but it's insulting to Canada to say that big box, franchise, etc. is American. It is just as much part of Canadian culture as it is US culture. US companies are just bigger and more numerous than ours. This industry was cultivated and developed at the same time everywhere on this continent, Montreal included. Canada is NOT America light. Maybe, they are Canada light. That Canadian retail phenomenon, the big box store and franchises, do not represent Canada either. Canada is a tremendously diverse nation with a very highly developed culture. Many people just assume that we imported these things. We didn't. I'd suggest doing a great deal of digging before you simply regurgitate what US media has told you, and uninformed Canadians assume to be true.

Football? Canadian. Baseball? First played in Ontario. The light bulb? Canadian. I could go on, and on, and on. Montrealers shouldn't assume Anglo-Canadian culture is US culture. We've exported just as much as we've imported. I appreciate most of your posts, but this one was really insulting and off the mark. I doubt franco-Ontario, franco-Manitoba, northern New Brunswick, or Quebec would take kindly to be labeled 'France light'.

My point was that Montreal is not European. Montreal isn't American either. When I am in Montreal, I know I'm in a Canadian city. That doesn't mean that Montreal isn't unique. Toronto is Toronto. Halifax is Halifax. Vancouver is Vancouver. Montreal is Montreal. They are all Canadian in many many ways though. And no, I didn't watch CSI, I watched MuchMusic and Flashpoint. And no, that isn't a US style cop show. The US don't have ownership of that tv genre. The US has simply made many more big budget shows in this category than Canadians have. That doesn't make it American.

Canadian cities have been heavily influenced by various countries in Europe, but our cities are very different than European cities. I'm from Europe originally, and as much as many people like to label Montreal European because of the French language, Montreal has far more in common with other Canadian cities than it does with anything in Europe. Someone moving from France to Montreal is going to encounter culture shock. Someone moving from Toronto to Montreal, is not.

CoralBuilder:

Toronto has just as many European influences as Montreal does, except in Toronto they are mostly English, not French. England is in Europe just like France. Why do people not realize this? Our cities are not European though. Canadians have taken influences from around the world, and developed a Canadian society, culture, and lifestyle that reflects THIS country. I wish people would have a greater appreciation for this country. This constant labeling of everything as American is infuriating.
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Old October 17th, 2008, 02:53 AM   #136
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Someone moving from France to Montreal is going to encounter culture shock. Someone moving from Toronto to Montreal, is not.
It's interesting how different people can find a bigger tie with a mother country than a neighboring country or region in the same continent while others will find a bigger tie with the same continent. I wonder if that may depend on the importance that one puts into language vs another cultural feature.

For example, some Brits find more in common with Americans or Canadians or Australians than other Europeans while others find more in common with Continental Europeans. Some Mexicans find more in common with Spaniards while others find more in common with Americans (US). I know French people that find more in common with other Europeans than French Canadians yet I know a French guy that finds more in common with French Canadians--Québecois especially--than other Europeans who speak a different language. There are Brazilians who find little in common with Portuguese in comparison with other South Americans who speak Spanish while some think they have more in common with Portuguese. Again, I wonder if this depends on the importance that one puts in the language they speak with regards to identity.
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Old October 17th, 2008, 05:51 AM   #137
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Isiado, I used to get mad like you at the mention of other cultural influences being more powerful then Canada's. It would infuriate me as a teenager when Americans would refer to Canada as their little brother, always ready to indulge in their cultural trends and never having their own identity. But then I spent a very long time travelling. I lived in six radically different countries on four different continents, and ended up marrying a woman in South America and living in Medellin until recently (we now live in Oakville). All this to say that through my experience of other cultures, it became abundantly clear to me that Canada is lacking a strong associative culture (I'm also an anthropology major from McGill, so I know a little about this). Our philosophical values are a combination of european and american, our kinship relations were traditionally european, but now more american in semblance, our law is british an french, and our architecture is just the by-product of this organization and history. Canadian culture is a collection of European and American cultural influences, often in a paradoxical contradiction with itself, without a really defining national voice on several issues. The most important thing that I realized was that "that" was the only thing that truly defines us and makes us unique (globally speaking). We refuse to be pinned to a single cultural ideal. Our dis unity is great because it is inclusive, and because it is varied, a sponge of all cultural influences upon it forming an unrecognizable mass without enough clarity to scare anyone away, or suck anyone into that particular brand of patriotism which leads to visciousness. Canadians are trained to accept different cultural values from an early age, and as a result are perhaps the most anthropological of humans. That is our virtue, and our one unifying principle, if ever we had one. Multiculturalism. By definition, this means always adopting and relating based on outside cultures.
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Old October 17th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #138
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Every city is unique, I just said if I had to compare, I'd say it reminds me more of London in some parts. But it doesn't mean it looks like London at all.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 02:11 AM   #139
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Montreal is Montreal, but it's insulting to Canada to say that big box, franchise, etc. is American. It is just as much part of Canadian culture as it is US culture. US companies are just bigger and more numerous than ours. This industry was cultivated and developed at the same time everywhere on this continent, Montreal included. Canada is NOT America light. Maybe, they are Canada light. That Canadian retail phenomenon, the big box store and franchises, do not represent Canada either. Canada is a tremendously diverse nation with a very highly developed culture. Many people just assume that we imported these things. We didn't. I'd suggest doing a great deal of digging before you simply regurgitate what US media has told you, and uninformed Canadians assume to be true.

Football? Canadian. Baseball? First played in Ontario. The light bulb? Canadian. I could go on, and on, and on. Montrealers shouldn't assume Anglo-Canadian culture is US culture. We've exported just as much as we've imported. I appreciate most of your posts, but this one was really insulting and off the mark. I doubt franco-Ontario, franco-Manitoba, northern New Brunswick, or Quebec would take kindly to be labeled 'France light'.

My point was that Montreal is not European. Montreal isn't American either. When I am in Montreal, I know I'm in a Canadian city. That doesn't mean that Montreal isn't unique. Toronto is Toronto. Halifax is Halifax. Vancouver is Vancouver. Montreal is Montreal. They are all Canadian in many many ways though. And no, I didn't watch CSI, I watched MuchMusic and Flashpoint. And no, that isn't a US style cop show. The US don't have ownership of that tv genre. The US has simply made many more big budget shows in this category than Canadians have. That doesn't make it American.

Canadian cities have been heavily influenced by various countries in Europe, but our cities are very different than European cities. I'm from Europe originally, and as much as many people like to label Montreal European because of the French language, Montreal has far more in common with other Canadian cities than it does with anything in Europe. Someone moving from France to Montreal is going to encounter culture shock. Someone moving from Toronto to Montreal, is not.

CoralBuilder:

Toronto has just as many European influences as Montreal does, except in Toronto they are mostly English, not French. England is in Europe just like France. Why do people not realize this? Our cities are not European though. Canadians have taken influences from around the world, and developed a Canadian society, culture, and lifestyle that reflects THIS country. I wish people would have a greater appreciation for this country. This constant labeling of everything as American is infuriating.
With all do respect isaidso, I have to categorically disagree with just about everything you've stated.

First off, I'm not a knee-jerk, America-hater as many Canadians are. I've driven up, down and across the U.S. many times and I've always had a blast. I lived in Houston for almost a year and spent a slightly shorter period of time in Chattanooga. Americans are kind, friendly and generous people, and I'm proud to have them as friends and neighbours. That said, there are a few things that I dislike about the U.S. and one of those things is their culture of big box, fast food, franchise retail.

The endless progression of Wal Marts, Taco Bells, Pizza Huts, Starbucks Subways etc. are destroying the American landscape in both the big cities and particularly in the small towns. I don't know how many beautiful American towns I've driven through where the classic downtown square, with bandshell and shops surrounding, (think Back to the Future) has been completely abandoned because of a Wal Mart that has opened up 5 km's outside of town. Wal Marts attract Home Depots attract Jack Astors-esque crapstoraunts and they suck the life out of everything that surrounds them. Ditto the big cities where you're assaulted by street after street of the same drive throughs, factory outlets and franchise everything in every city you go to. The same thing is happening in Canadian cities. Southern Ontario is the epicentre, but Calgary and Vancouver are just as bad. Montréal has the same crappy franchises but not nearly so many, not to mention that there isn't a miserable Tim Hortons on every second corner. If you don't believe me, then hit the 'store locator' button on any big box or fast food website. For example:

Starbucks: Vancouver 238, Calgary 103, Toronto 199, Montréal 35
Subway: Vancouver 54, Calgary 96, Toronto 169, Montréal 45

You can do the same with any U.S. fast food joint or big box store and you'll get 2 or 3 times as many in the rest of Canada as you will in Québec. That is a true cultural difference.

I first noticed the phenomonen of 'death by big box' on a road trip from Toronto to Texas and in the early 90's. That was before anyone in Canada had heard the name Wal Mart or the term big box so, your assertation that this cancerous retail is somehow part of our culture is simply wrong. The Borg-like invasion of Canada by these retail monstrosities began in earnest about 10 years ago, when there was still an Eaton's in the Eaton Centre; not a Sears. Any Canadian big box that exists now is simply a clone created to compete with these tumours and very few have ever been exported southward.

Football, basketball, baseball may have been played in Canada first but it's the NFL, NBA and MLB's 3 hour 'sportomercials' that Canadians have been tuning into by the millions for the last 30 years. Why do you think that Budweiser has been Ontario's best-selling beer for the last 10 years? They're about as Canadian as.. well, they're clearly not Canadian, and you'd have a hard time convincing someone that the Dallas-Washington game they'd just watched was somehow a significant expression of Canadian culture. The light bulb is an invention and not an example of culture. If you experience a profound Canadian cultural moment every time you turn on a light then I imagine you'd feel an equally deep Chinese cultural connection if you were to read USA Today. After all, the Chinese invented paper.

As far as the media is concerned, you're way off the mark. Check the BBM ratings for English Canadian TV. We're lucky if 2 or 3 shows (outside of news or hockey) ever crack the top 30, and if they do, they're usually Canadian Idol or So You Think You Can Dance Canada; U.S. spinoffs, and the BBM's track only so-called Canadian networks and specialty channels. CTV and Global run 95% U.S. shows in primetime and nobody watches CBC, even though they have some great shows like Strombo, 22 Minutes and Rick Mercer Report (not his peurile 'Talking to Americans'). Canadians watch very little Canadian television and Americans watch virtually none.

Our movie industry is a complete disaster. Canadian-made films play on fewer than 1% of our theatre screens because they can't get distribution in their own country. Our entire film distribution network is run by Hollywood. People like Sarah Polly can make an incredible film and then have to use every connection they have to get a limited city, 2 week engagement. Canadians aren't interested in Canadian movies any more than they're interested in Canadian TV. We don't consider anyone to be a star unless they first make it in the U.S. Flashpoint would have died like any other Canadian series only it was on CBS; that's the only credibility we recognize. We make heaps of movies here but usually as a stand-in for some U.S. city. Change the mailboxes and the flags and presto: we're Baltimore or Seattle. Canadians won't watch if it's Hamilton or Vancouver.

There are many people who come to Montréal, hang out for a while with other english-speaking people, order up their 200 U.S. channel universe, live in a heavily english neighbourhood, learn 10 words of french and then say "Well I didn't notice much difference". No doubt! After being here for 2 years, learning french, living in a french neighbourhood and watching Québec films and TV I can tell you this: there are a few major differences and a whole slew of minor cultural differences that can make for a bit of a culture shock. Québec TV is the polar opposite of English-Canadian TV. Only about 2 or 3 shows in the top 30 aren't made here. Tout le Monde en Parle regularly attracts 1.5 to 2 million viewers on Sunday night. That's 50% more than Flashpoint draws with one-fifth the potential audience, and 26% of the movie screens show Québec-made films. Actors, authors, artists are well known and respected. Most people know the name of the conductor of the Symphony, Kent Nagano, and he's treated like a rock star. Mention Riopelle, and most people will direct you to the famous sculptor's fountain. The Salon du livre attracts over 120,000 people every November. Les Francofolies draws over 2 million people onto the streets every summer to listen to francophone bands. There is a culture here that is sadly lacking in the rest of Canada and it isn't centered around the latest American retail operation that's decided to expand its market. You can lose an election over culture here which is clearly not the case in most of the rest of the country. There wasn't a CPC that was even close to winning a seat within 100km's of Montréal.

Yes Montréal is a Canadian city but it has resisted this creeping monoculture better than most others. The burbs are the burbs but the city itself doesn't look like any other city I know. You can't simply change the mailboxes and flags in my neighbourhood and expect it to look like anywhere but Montréal. There's no equivalent to Old Montréal anywhere else in North America (and the bulk of it was built by the British). Lower Town in Québec City is older and more extensive but it's a completely different style than Old Montréal. Other cities have a few old buildings sprinkled here and there but not an entire borough. Montréal celebrated its 350th anniversary in 1992, Toronto its 150th in 1984. You can't honestly say that 192 years makes little difference in the built form of a North American city can you?

The bottom line is that if we don't do something in this country, other than ignore and go into denial whenever this subject is brought up, we'll have nothing in common as a nation but a whack of foreign franchises and some perverse competition to attract more upscale rag trade, the type that's a dime a dozen in the U.S. People here (Montréal) are mostly not interested in becoming the next Mall of America or Houston Galleria. I wish the same could be said of the rest of the country.

And the U.S. media doesn't tell me anything because I ditched cable in 1999.

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Old October 19th, 2008, 06:57 AM   #140
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I have absolutely no idea what my argument has to do with feelings towards the USA. You've completely lost me when you start talking about 'knee jerk' US haters. What has that got to do with Canadians being ignorant of their own country? Nothing, actually.

Canada and the USA share a common North American culture. Some of it originated in the USA, some of it originated in Canada, but most of it grew and developed in unison, being influenced by both nations. To say that anglo-Canada is 'US light' because we also have big box stores is such a distortion of the facts that it goes beyond insult, and can only be described as rather shocking. Quebec is going to have some differences due to language, and the era in which most of Quebec was developed, but that's about it. The rest is as North American as you can get. Dallas doesn't represent North America. To say that Montreal isn't very North American because it doesn't look like Dallas is an erroneous leap of logic. Halifax doesn't look like Dallas either because it's the same age as Montreal. Montreal and Halifax grew at the same time, and stopped growing quickly at the same time. The newer parts of both Halifax and Montreal look the same. The older parts feel and look the same. The only difference is language and that the building stock of each took direction from different European nations.

I hate big box stores too, and I fight mall development vigorously. Just because we hate them, doesn't mean that it is some US import and that we are defending ourselves from a horrible US cultural invasion. Huge big box outlets existed in Canada decades ago. Ever heard of Kent Building Supplies? Didn't think so. Just because a US company named Wal-Mart capitalized on the big box format and is now copied the continent over, does not make anglo-Canada a US clone. It's as ridiculous as saying that the US is 'Canada light' because they built suburbs everywhere like the one built in Don Mills, Ontario back in the 1950's. It's as ridiculous as saying Manhattan resisted this Canadianization by not bulldozing the place to build bungalows. Your perception is one that snooty Canadians like to use who think everything bad is American, and the good stuff is Canadian. Those attitudes exist here in southern Ontario too. We're just as responsible for many of the blights on our country as they are. It's insulting to the US to point the finger at them when these things we dislike are simply an evolution of our own society and theirs developing in unison.

Whether many Canadians watch US sports leagues is neither here nor there. We gave them those sports and they flourished in their country. By your definition, that makes the US, 'Canada light'. Canadian cultural domination of the US. Americans are not culturally dominated by Canada for liking football, basketball, baseball, and hockey. We share a common culture just as France and Belgium do, or Germany and Austria. Anglo-Canada and the US share a language. Of course we're going to exchange ideas. That doesn't make the US, Canadian; and it doesn't make anglo-Canada, American.

The light bulb isn't a cultural example? I didn't say it was. The point is that you can't label Canada 'US light' for having a big box store any more than you can label the US 'Canada light' for introducing light bulbs. It's just plain silliness. It's called the evolution of western civilization. No society lives in a bubble. Not even Quebec. I suppose Quebec is 'Canada light' for introducing an Ontario invention? That would follow from your line of thinking.

What does me watching Much Music or Flashpoint have to do with me being off the mark? Off the mark with what? You asked me what shows I watched, and I told you. I know what shows I watched last week. Then you start talking about BBM ratings?????? Why do you have to insult anglo-Canada for not having the natural barrier that a different language provides? Anglo-Canadian tv and film does pale compared to that produced in Quebec, but we're getting better and better.

Anglo-Canadians might watch Canadian Idol, but that doesn't make us 'Britain light'. I suppose Montreal is 'France light' because people watch some TV5? And by the way, a theatre is a place where live performance takes place. The proper term is 'cinema'. Instead of insulting anglo-Canadians and pointing out our shortcomings, which we are all aware of, why not go see Paschendale tomorrow and watch Flashpoint or Much Music? You obviously speak and understand English, so that would be more constructive, no? Start supporting Canadian culture instead of opting for this snobby attitude that Canadian means watching Tout le Monde en Parle or shopping at a fruit stand. It doesn't. Put your money where your mouth is and watch and support Canadian productions, as I do. It's not going to get better if you just point the finger.

Why are you talking about the built form of Toronto vs. Montreal? If you want fair anglo-Canadian comparisons, try Halifax, Nova Scotia or Saint John, New Brunswick. Most of metro Toronto was built in the last 30 years. Don't believe me, check the 1981 census. Metro Toronto has doubled since then. Newer areas of the US look like newer versions of Canada simply because of the era in which they were built. It has zero to do with Montreal resisting a cultural import, and everything to do with the age when most of Montreal was built. Ever been to Laval? If the city core of Montreal was mostly developed after WW2, it wouldn't look like it does today, it would look like newer Canadian cities like Vancouver or Laval.

Montreal is simply fortunate for having developed much earlier than most other cities in this country. Go to Halifax before you start asserting that this is a Quebec phenomenon. It ain't. It's not US culture Montreal is resisting. It's modern North American culture. Downtown Montreal is simply resisting it in the same way that downtown Toronto is resisting it, and downtown Halifax is resisting it. All these downtowns are older and have a vibrant, pedestrian friendly, built form, with independent retailers predominating. Residents love the atmosphere and try to protect against MODERN influences.

Your arguments are as illogical as saying that Manhattan has no intention of becoming the next Yorkdale Shopping Centre of Toronto because it is resisting Canadianization. All they are doing is preserving the atmosphere of Manhattan that they cherish. It's not Montreal, Toronto, or Halifax resisting US influences. It's an aversion to modern North America. Go to the newer parts of these 3 cities, and they look like newer North American cities.

I ditched cable in 2002. Perhaps, you should argue one point at a time, because I could have written 50 pages in response to what you said, but managed to condense it into a tenth of a page. Do you not, at least, see how insulting your views are? If someone had said that Montreal has no identity and you're just trying to be Paris, you would have gone into fits. Well, that's what you've said about anglo-Canada. Neither position is true. You just haven't looked closely enough and made assumptions about anglo-Canada that are inaccurate and insulting.
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World's 1st Baseball Game: June 4th, 1838, Beachville, Ontario, Canada
North America's Oldest Pro Football Teams: Toronto Argonauts (1873) and Hamilton Tiger Cats (1869)

I started my first photo thread documenting a recent trip to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Have a peek: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=724898

Last edited by isaidso; October 19th, 2008 at 07:56 AM.
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