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Old September 1st, 2008, 12:23 PM   #1
BIL
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NORWAY | High Speed Rail

In Norway there is only one high speed railway,
the one going between Oslo and the airport Gardermoen, opened in 1997.

High speed rail is in Norway 200 km/h or more. The trains to Gardermoen can go in 210 km/h.

For shorter terms a few more high speed railways are planned, around Oslo.


*Oslo-Ski, new railway parallel to the existing one, about 30 km. Cost about 13 bn NOK (1,6 bn €). Construction start about 2010, but there are hesitations about the rising cost.

*Drammen-Skien, some new double track railway built, and most of it will have 200 km/h double track by 2015.

*Oslo-Hønefoss, mostly in tunnel, will cut 50 minutes and 60 km for the trains Oslo-Bergen. Construction start later than 2015.

*Gardermoen-Hamar, new double track railway, Construction start about 2015 ??




On long term, there are discussions about a long-distance high speed network.
* Moss-Halden
* Hamar-Trondheim, propably over Tynset
* Oslo-Bergen
* (Oslo-)Skien-Stavanger
* and even Bergen-Stavanger
These are only being discussed. There are lobby organizations supported by provinces and cities, which have made investigations about them, and the Railway authority has paid for one more thorough.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 01:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIL View Post
In Norway there is only one high speed railway,
the one going between Oslo and the airport Gardermoen, opened in 1997.

High speed rail is in Norway 200 km/h or more. The trains to Gardermoen can go in 210 km/h.
Hum... Norwegian highspeed railways? That's a bit like discussing Italian war heroes.

According to European definitions a railway track would need to be capable of 250 km/h to be definitely classified as high speed - although in many cases countries would be allowed to classify as high speed also track renovations to reach speeds above 200 km/h. Of the ones you mention the one that makes the most sense to be is the Gardermoen-Hamar link. I seem to have read somewhere that the road connection is one of the most congested and dangerous trunk roads in Norway. Better make a combined freeway and high-speed railway then.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #3
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Loving it! More rail please Ultimatly, we should get a high-speed rail Oslo - Gothenburg - Copenhagen - Hamburg ;D And then
Oslo - Sarpsborg - Stockholm
Oslo - Hamar - Trondheim
Oslo - Grenland - Kristiansand - Stavanger - Bergen - Oslo
Trondheim - Stockholm
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Old September 11th, 2008, 01:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIL
In Norway there is only one high speed railway,
the one going between Oslo and the airport Gardermoen, opened in 1997.
High speed rail is in Norway 200 km/h or more. The trains to Gardermoen can go in 210 km/h.
Well, there's a funny philosophic point here somewhere. Under EU definitions this would definitely not qualify as a HSL - but the track upgrades that you're planning elsewhere in Norway, to a slightly lower speed, WOULD count as highspeed. Ah well... life's complicated. As a Dane I should congratulate our Norwegian brothers with the 210 km/h - something we have not yet achieved. As a resident of France I should scoff at newly built tracks for anything less than 350 km/h.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIL
Oslo-Hønefoss, mostly in tunnel, will cut 50 minutes and 60 km for the trains Oslo-Bergen. Construction start later than 2015.
I'm getting depressed at the difference in ambitions between Old Europe and some of the up-and-coming countries of this world. (This is not a criticism of Norway it's a general observation.) Did you see a list of all the ultra-fast tracks the Chinese are coming up with these days? 800 km from Canton to the centre of the country to open shortly, 40% of it in tunnels. Apperently the whole thing was constructed in about five years. Well, I suppose they're in a hurry, they're flushed with cash and they've got at least 2 million people in each of their provincial cities...
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Old September 11th, 2008, 02:52 PM   #5
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At the moment, rail under construction in Norway is Stavanger - Sandnes 14,5 km. Lysaker - Sandvika 6,7 km. Next year Barkåker - Tønsberg (9km) and Gevingåsen tunnel 5 km will start construction aswell...
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Old September 11th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #6
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OK, Ingenior, let me then ask you a direct question: isn't all the ongoing railway construction work in Norway of a rather "local" character? I'm comparing again with countries such as France and Spain where new railway projects are normally about tying this-and-that part of the country together in a congruent network. Now, Stavanger-Sandnes is about doubling the tracks on a local line in south-western Norway. The Gevingåsen tunnel about connecting Trondheim better with the southern Troendelag. And so on...

... I remember a report 1-2 years ago by the EU Commission which strongly criticised the Portuguese government for squandering EU funds. The government's "crime" was to have spread the money thinly. Instead of focusing on a couple of high-priority lines between the major urban and economic centres, the Portuguese had invested in a lot of local projects to give everybody a slice of the cake and "be nice to the outlying districts". My question is, isn't Norway going into the same trap? Of course Norway's fiscal windfall stems from oil, not EU money, which the Norwegians can spend as they like, but shouldn't a fast line between Oslo and the centre, and Oslo and Stockholm/Göteborg have imminent priority over tunnels in the Birkebeinerland?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #7
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Agree, train from Oslo towards Gothenburg at the Swedish border has only 75 km/h average speed, it's ridiculous... Gothenburg - Trollhättan will is well under construction and will be ready in 2012, saving 20 minutes, certainly the Swedes would follow us if we chose to invest on this important link between to large cities with an ideal distance for highspeed rail between them.... With the prime ministers last statement, there is atleast hope for having a new dual track Oslo - Ski atleast...
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Last edited by Ingenioren; September 11th, 2008 at 04:59 PM.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 12:25 PM   #8
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The EU definition of High Speed is
  • Specially built High Speed lines equipped for speeds generally equal to or greater than 250 km/h,
  • Specially upgraded High Speed lines equipped for speeds of the order of 200 km/h,
  • Specially upgraded High Speed lines which have special features as a result of topographical, relief or town-planning constraints, on which the speed must be adapted to each case.
That covers most of the bases. I think the most common definition of high-speed rail as 200 km/h or more is fine, but I would like it to mean average operational speed from station to station, including acceleration and stops, and not top speed, or even worse theoretical capability. Many high speed lines are only high speed a small part of the distance, slowing to a definite low speed in built-up areas or in difficult terrain, something the EU definition allows for.

Norway has its share of difficult terrain. Any high-speed line westward from Oslo would effectively be one long tunnel. Keeping speeds of 200 km/h, not to speak of 350 km/h, inside that tunnel would be an engineering challenge, to put it mildly. Northwards to Trondheim or southwards towards Gothenburg and Copenhagen some of the line would not be in tunnels.

A bigger challenge would be political. High-speed rail depends on few stops, but every village on the way would clamour for getting their station on the line. An Oslo-Trondheim line should have have the intermediary stops Gardermoen, Otta, and probably Lillehammer, Oslo-Bergen should have Gardermoen and maybe Voss, but by the time the political process is done you would be sure to have a dozen stops, if not two dozen, making it hard to compete not only with air, but with cars and busses as well.

Finally there's the economic challenge. A line will have to make economic sense, and even when adding secondary and spin-off effects that would be hard going. The two lines that have been fingered as marginally economic are Oslo-Trondheim and Oslo-Gothenburg.

Even then, and including the Fehmarn Belt bridge, I have my doubts over the feasibility for longer routes, like Oslo-Hamburg, not to speak of the rest of Europe. Taking a plane would be more convenient. Oslo-Copenhagen could compete though, assuming something resembling sustained 200 km/h along the route.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 06:45 PM   #9
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Jax, I think you're mistaken: if you re-read the EU text you have to build new tracks for 250+ km/h to have them classified as high speed. Only upgraded older tracks qualify as HS at 200 km/h. Hence the Oslo-Gardermoen - which was new-built for 210 km/h - is not high speed according to EU definitions.

On another point you're making, I don't think the terrain is the (main) problem. The new connection between Bologna and Florence (250+ km/h) passes UNDER the Appenines with 92% in tunnels. The base tunnel between Madrid and Segovia underneath the Guadarrama mountains (admittedly "only" 32 km long) is prepared for 350 km/h. Similar things could be achieved in Norway. The issue is Norway's tiny population and - most specifically - the fact that people are not concentrated in a few big cities. It's easier (to say the least...) to justify such expenses when you're connecting Madrid with France than when you're connecting Oslo with Bergen.
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Old September 13th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #10
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The problem is only a lack of will and the ability to look further into the future than the next election.

I agree with Ingenioren that Oslo - Gothenburg - Copenhagen (- Fehmarn - Hamburg) should have the highest priority. Trondheim - Sundsvall (- Stockholm) (Atlantbanan) should also be prioritised, although maybe not 350+ km/h but 200+.
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Old September 17th, 2008, 11:42 PM   #11
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Oslo-Trondheim to be prioritised?

Maxx Power is writing about Oslo-Hamburg, but who are travelling by train such long distance? Today it takes 14 hours (4 Oslo-Got, 4 Got-Cph, 5 Cph-Hamb and 1 hr connections. Actually the time table says 15 hours because almost 2 hours wait needed in Copenhagen).

When Fehmarn, Hallandsåsen, Follobanen, Råde-Sarpsborg and more are built around 2020, it will take 10½ hours (3 Oslo-Got, 3½ Got-Cph, 3½ Cph-Hamb and ½ hr connections). Business people and tourists in a hurry will still fly, and low-price tourists will drive, since that is the cheapest if at least two people.

Oslo-Trondheim is more interesting, since it could be travelled in less than 3 hours on high speed trains, and it has much higher potential than any international route. Most travel is domestic, and the air route Oslo-Trondheim is today one of Europes busiest.

Last edited by BIL; September 17th, 2008 at 11:51 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 01:08 PM   #12
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..

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Old September 18th, 2008, 02:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIL View Post
When Fehmarn, Hallandsåsen, Follobanen, Råde-Sarpsborg and more are built around 2020, it will take 10½ hours (3 Oslo-Got, 3½ Got-Cph, 3½ Cph-Hamb and ½ hr connections). Business people and tourists in a hurry will still fly, and low-price tourists will drive, since that is the cheapest if at least two people.
Actually, Cph-Hamb will be reduced to less than 3 hours by then. The bridge itself will reduce the travel time by one hour, that is true. However, the new double track between Rödby and Nyköbing Falster together with the electrification of Nyköbing-Ringsted and Puttgarten-Grossenbrode (all of which part of the agreement) will shave off another 30 minutes. If the Danes go ahead with a HSL between Copenhagen and Ringsted (not decided but widely expected) another 20 minutes will be won.
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Old September 20th, 2008, 09:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIL View Post
Maxx Power is writing about Oslo-Hamburg, but who are travelling by train such long distance? Today it takes 14 hours (4 Oslo-Got, 4 Got-Cph, 5 Cph-Hamb and 1 hr connections. Actually the time table says 15 hours because almost 2 hours wait needed in Copenhagen).

When Fehmarn, Hallandsåsen, Follobanen, Råde-Sarpsborg and more are built around 2020, it will take 10½ hours (3 Oslo-Got, 3½ Got-Cph, 3½ Cph-Hamb and ½ hr connections). Business people and tourists in a hurry will still fly, and low-price tourists will drive, since that is the cheapest if at least two people.
They don't have to go all the way to Hamburg

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Originally Posted by BIL View Post
Oslo-Trondheim is more interesting, since it could be travelled in less than 3 hours on high speed trains, and it has much higher potential than any international route. Most travel is domestic, and the air route Oslo-Trondheim is today one of Europes busiest.
It's definitely a good idea, but I think some other options should be considered first as they make more sense and are more cost-effective. In the future, if both Oslo - Trondheim and Trondheim - Sundsvall could be linked by reasonably fast trains it would create a ring Trondheim - Sundsvall - Stockholm - Malmö/Gothenburg - Oslo, but that's probably just a pipe dream.

Oslo-Gothenburg would link two cities of ~800k each, Trondheim has 150k. O-G is 300km, O-T is 500km with partially very difficult terrain. O-T would not be linked to anything significant, O-G would connect to a much wider HS network.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 07:39 PM   #15
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NORWAY DERAILED TRAIN | Location: HOLMESTRAND, Norway
February 15, 2012






Quote:
A rescue helicopter hoovers over a derailed train near Holmestrand, some 80 km south of Oslo 15 February 2012. Two employees of state railway NSB were injured when the new high-speed train on a test run derailed near Nykirke, authorities said.

Credit: EPA
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Old February 15th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #16
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That's a sad sight, does anybody know what caused the derailment? What will happen to the FLIRT?
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Old February 15th, 2012, 08:07 PM   #17
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Uh-oh. Looks like the train clipped the rock face... I'm surprised that the catenaries are still intact. Was anyone killed?
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Old February 15th, 2012, 08:28 PM   #18
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What a pity... such a beautiful train laid to waste! but this is the reason why tests are important, another 4 train sets have already travelled thousands of km without incidents.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maadeuurija View Post
That's a sad sight, does anybody know what caused the derailment? What will happen to the FLIRT?
No, they don't know yet. Here's a video from the accident site. Shows the aftermath.

http://www.vgtv.no//#!id=49415
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Old February 17th, 2012, 07:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maadeuurija View Post
That's a sad sight, does anybody know what caused the derailment?
A lot of speculation at the moment in the Swiss Press. Rumours that the train might have been going to fast and jumped the track. But nothing definite yet.

Quote:
What will happen to the FLIRT?
The FLIRT is still owned by Stadler (as the trains haven't officially been delivered yet. The test run was part of the commissioning process). Stadler will probably have to built a new one. The way Stadler builts bodyshells you can't just patch one up with so much damage. So probably what is still useable will be removed, and the train then scrapped.
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