New York vs. Hong Kong

[aab7772003]

How is that going to be excerised to make everyone happy then?

[HSBC]

Originally Posted by aab7772003

HSBC, I did mention another ranking in my first response to this thread and personally I think these ranking/indexes often do not tell the whole picture. News can be reported without censorships in Hong Kong, something that is not possible in mainland China. The freedom of expression is more than just the absence of censorship. Again, you confuse aspiration with status quo.

No, I didn't confuse aspiration with status quo.

I think you are the one who is confused here. We're comparing HK with NY, but not with China.
Well I'm pretty sure when this organization "Reporters without frontiers" make this sort of ranking, it would not just simply base on the absence of censorship.

[aab7772003]

In fact, I am so clear-headed to see this "comparison" thread in fact is disguised as "wow, Hong Kong is just like New York, a REAL global center" thread. At the end of the day, everyone can see still how light-weighted arts/media/creative industry in Hong Kong in comparison with those in New York and London. As I said in my first response to this thread, Hong Kong is NOT comparable to London and New York. Anyway, keep it real and happy benchmarking!

[HSBC]

in this forum, we respect differences in opinion here.

[HSBC]

Originally Posted by EricIsHim

Don't forget NY has a much bigger labour force base than HK, or even London does, too.
Both have the available labour force base of not just the city alone, but the whole country.
Those talented Americans and British move and work in the nation biggest and most international city without counting themselves as "foreign." They are free to move in and out of the cities.

On the other hand, small international city-states (e.g. HK and Singapore) only have a very small population and labour force base with limited amount talented people to fulfill the large number of top posts we have. I would imagine HK or Singapore may have the similar amount of top class local talents percentage-wise as compares to NY or London, but not the actual number to supply the top posts demand both cities have. That's why we disparate for foreign talented people.

This is very true actually. This is what our CE touched on yesterday in the report: we need to get the world's best (including those from Mainland china) to fill in our limited labour resources from this small population.

[acc521]

One area that HK lacks behind London and NYC is in attracting young, intelligent workers from overseas that are just starting their careers. I have an accounting degree and am about to finish a law degree. I am moving to London and have a good chance of getting a graduate job. In HK, I would not have a chance of working there until I had a few years of experience behind me. I would have loved to have gone to HK to work if the opportunity was available.

[hkskyline]

A lot of it has to do with the huge influx of overseas Hong Kongers who have studied abroad and have returned home to work. In order to demand a good wage, they will need a few years of working experience, build up their profile, and return to HK as a manager. Otherwise, there is no justification to pay a fortune to get these people to relocate.

I don't think the new grads are doing well in New York or London either. The cost to survive erodes their wages completely, whereas in HK, with a much lower cost of living and tax rates, it is actually possible to save a substantial amount of income.

[HSBC]

Oh...I suddenly feel this HK forum is back to live! haha..Probably because someone is back

[acc521]

True HK Skyline. Just a shame for someone like me. Mind you if I can score a job with an international firm in London I can always get a secondment to HK.

[hkskyline]

I think a lot of people are confused with Hong Kong's role and that of New York and London. In terms of financial power, Hong Kong is definitely up there with New York and London. It's a sign of China's rise, and that's an undeniable truth. But the means to achieving this end result is far different in Hong Kong, which is dependent on inflows from abroad and outflows from within, which means capital moves much more quicker and easier in HK, whereas capital tends to stop or start from New York or London (ie. pour some money into the market there in a trade, rather than flow-through as a reinvestment). Hong Kong's role as a middle man / regional hub is far different than that of New York and London.

This is the key reason why expats are needed - for foreign companies to oversee the local operations, but this is changing as well. Expats are expensive, and if there is local talent to fill in these positions, then it is much more cost-effective to hire local. At the same time, given Hong Kong's Chinese nature, a foreigner (ie. white) would be easily noticeable, whereas in New York or London, would a fellow from continental Europe be so easily discernible? Would a French appear so drastically different in a British landscape? I bet a French person would stand out quite prominently in Hong Kong. This is where I believe people can misconceptions on foreigners' roles in Hong Kong.

I don't think freedom of information flows has much to do with Hong Kong at all either. Clearly, information flows readily around here. Otherwise all those money flows evaporate. I also highly question the role of the media in the 'free' West. The American stations seemed so supportive of the Bush administration, much to the dismay of the European press, which criticized the Americans of being swept into the propaganda machine of the US government. I think censorship in the free press is alive and well everywhere.

[acc521]

The media or the Fox network. Without getting too political I've never seen such heavy right wing biased, untruthful crap passed off as news and current affairs as is on that channel. The fact that many Americans rely on Fox for their news needs is worrying indeed. One of the downfalls of such freedom of speech is that crap like that gets the time of day and the chance to influence so many people.

[aab7772003]

The fact is that there are many loud Bush critics out there in the States and they do not get the "Martin Lee treatment." Also, the "locals" in the Western/Caucasian nations are fully aware of the presence of Caucasian expatriates. In New York, you will sure know the banker is from France when you meet him for the first time.

[hkskyline]

Originally Posted by aab7772003

The fact is that there are many loud Bush critics out there in the States and they do not get the "Martin Lee treatment." Also, the "locals" in the Western/Caucasian nations are fully aware of the presence of Caucasian expatriates. In New York, you will sure know the banker is from France when you meet him for the first time.

The visibility factor is key to perceptions. You don't see or distinguish them on a busy day on the street in New York. You need to talk to them, which means many people won't perceive foreigners as they don't talk to everyone on the street. Meanwhile, in HK, these people are already easily distinguishable on the street, which fuels perceptions far easier than having each person talk to another on the street to determine if foreigner or local.

Meanwhile, I think the Valerie Plame scandal points to how the West is also susceptible to much worse than the 'Martin Lee treatment'.

[aab7772003]

You could bring a president down in the West without bloodshed and/or violence, for example, the Watergate Scandal.

Valerie Plame
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

Plame Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

It is more a two-way street in the West than the basically one-way street setup in the East.

Uh, nonthing has happened to Keith Olbermann and Paul Krugman, yet. It does NOT seem anything horrible will ever happen to them as prominent Bush critics.

Keith Olbermann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Olbermann

Paul Krugman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman

Basically, the European press wants the entire American population not to support Bush, how is that possible? There are plently of political hotmesses in Europe as well, such as Silvio Berlusconi. There are many media outlets in the US; it seems that the European press only knows of those American media outlets who support Bush. NBC, MSNBC, CBS, Washington Post, New York Times, to name a few, are no supporter of Bush. There are many Americans who turn their backs on FOX with a vengeance. In short, the Bush critics in the US are alive and kicking and there are loads of them. You cannot exactly say the same thing about critics to the mainland China in Hong Kong in terms of clout and numbers.

[hkskyline]

The fact that blatant misuse of the free press is alive and well is clear testament that the ugly side is very real in the West, and cannot and should not be watered down when things run smoothly. Just because other critics are not silenced doesn't mean even one being silenced is acceptable. I also highly doubt your perception that such misuse would be overlooked in Hong Kong, especially with the setup of the current government and economic systems after the British model. Even in China nowadays, bad things do flow out quite readily, much moreso than a decade ago.

That being said, I don't see much relevance in these political discussions in a New York vs. Hong Kong thread, especially when I clearly stated at the beginning this is a celebration of the two cities' differences. The political centre is in DC after all.

[aab7772003]

It is you who brought up Valerie Plame and politics. I was talking about the media industry in New York. There is a very developed check-and-balance system to regulate your idea of out of control media in the West. FYI, critics being scilenced in the US is simply not tolerated; therefore, the critics will not be silenced when speaking for your own beliefs is simply part of the American way of life. The whole madness with Varlie Plame was finally settled by the US Supreme Court.

By the way, versus does not even have the connotation of celebration.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/versus

[acc521]

Um look at the first post in the thread. When someone specifically states what the purpose of the thread, and by impication the word "versus" means in the context in which it is being used, than any dictionary definition is irrelevant.

[Cunning Linguist]

What are you guys talking about? Fox news isn't biased. Just look at their slogan.

[HSBC]

Originally Posted by aab7772003

It is you who brought up Valerie Plame and politics. I was talking about the media industry in New York. There is a very developed check-and-balance system to regulate your idea of out of control media in the West. FYI, critics being scilenced in the US is simply not tolerated; therefore, the critics will not be silenced when speaking for your own beliefs is simply part of the American way of life. The whole madness with Varlie Plame was finally settled by the US Supreme Court.

By the way, versus does not even have the connotation of celebration.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/versus

Don't forget that it's you who brought up the irrelevant issue of racial slurs from Chinese, out of nowhere. It's also you who brought up that racial name against chinese.

HKskyline clearly stated the original purpose of this thread from his very first post. The reason why we are still replying you is because we want to stop you from spreading all these misconceptions around.

[HSBC]

Originally Posted by aab7772003

The fact is that there are many loud Bush critics out there in the States and they do not get the "Martin Lee treatment." Also, the "locals" in the Western/Caucasian nations are fully aware of the presence of Caucasian expatriates. In New York, you will sure know the banker is from France when you meet him for the first time.

Yeah, in this way, you really need to speak to the entire population of the city to find out the proportion of foreigners residing there. That's hilarious.