The Irish Political Thread

odlum833 · September 8th, 2008, 04:25 AM

So this is, in effect, the Irish politics thread.

saoró... · September 8th, 2008, 04:36 AM

Theres already 1 too many bananas -_-

mikey23 · September 8th, 2008, 04:04 PM

Yay another skybar where i can bump up my post count : P

Zim Flyer · September 8th, 2008, 04:21 PM

What this thread needs is some controversy to get you going. Right I'll start you of, should Ireland rejoin the UK

- I'm joking, I'm joking

Seriously though I will be popping in from time to time to say hello and check out your transport threads etc (when they appear).

937delta · September 8th, 2008, 05:12 PM

should Ireland rejoin the UK

You see confusion already with the 'geographic' Ireland, as part of Ireland is already in the UK.

PB-1888 · September 8th, 2008, 08:36 PM

"Should Ireland rejoin the UK?"

20 years ago I would have said yes. The South's economy then was a joke. Even with everyone in NI doing their best at tearing the place apart it still had a much better infrastructure with much better per person GDP and standard of living, although mostly subsidised by London. Since then, the Celtic Tiger roared and Dublin has shown how successful a small independent European state with an educated English speaking population can be. Northern Ireland has now been left behind in comparison and with our recent debate over corporation tax is arguably being held back by London.

Regarding the future of the UK as it is, it is clear that a large chunk of the Scots have looked across the Irish Sea and have wondered if they too, with a similar sized English speaking population, better universities and also with strong links to the US, not too mention oil and gas reserves could emulate Dublin. The answer to that is a no brainer in my opinion.

So should Ireland rejoin the UK? No, not now. The more relevant question is; what is the future for the UK assuming the current trajectory in Scotland comes to its eventual logical conclusion. Where does that leave Northern Ireland????

odlum833 · September 8th, 2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

Right I'll start you of, should Ireland rejoin the UK

*can open, worms everywhere*

I dont see any reason why things should change. The relationship between Britain and Ireland is strong. Of course being independent means taking on alot of responsibility - sometimes times will be good, other times bad. The South has always shouldered the consequences of its decisions economically up until the 90's when things were pretty dire. Since the early 90's up till recently its been full steam ahead. There are challenges today of course as we all know. Ireland has remarkably similar problems to the UK and Spain right now but hopefully we will all get through it intact.

PB-1888 · September 9th, 2008, 06:57 PM

Ok, maybe I'm playing with fire with that one. No one seems to want to bite.

Best City in Ireland? Belfast, obviously.

Few of the current gold medals are:

Tallest office building in Ireland - Belfast (Windsor House)
Tallest residential building in Ireland - Belfast (Divis Tower)
Tallest hospital in Ireland - Belfast (City Hospital Tower Block)
Tallest hotel in Ireland - Belfast (Hilton at Laganside)
Biggest brownfield site redevelopment - Belfast (Titanic quarter)
Widest motorway in Ireland - Belfast (M2 Foreshore)

I'm obviously talking about what currently exists, not whats in the pipeline.

Zim Flyer · September 9th, 2008, 07:56 PM

ahh but Dublin has trams and that is a big plus for any city.

Onoudidnt · September 9th, 2008, 08:45 PM

i wouldnt say that having the widest motorway or tallest building makes a city great. for me its street life; and the best place in ireland to find this is dublin

PB-1888 · September 9th, 2008, 09:59 PM

Yes of course. I forgot how all those stag and hen parties from Newcastle (no offence intended) make Dublin's street life undoubtedly the best in Ireland.

hcrosskey · September 10th, 2008, 12:17 PM

Great to see there is now a forum for Ireland's projects. Just one thing though..

When is the term 'Southern Ireland' ever used? The only times i ever hear it used are when I’m trying to buy a stamp in a Post Office and the server isn't sure if Dublin is in the Republic or the UK lol! I'm not going to blab on about it as the decision has been made, but i would have left out the 'Southern' part in the title.

hcrosskey · September 10th, 2008, 12:24 PM

The Stag and Hen parties thankfully head to the Temple Bar part of Dublin city centre. Which is basically an area regenerated for tourists who want to visit a 'traditional' Irish bar/pub. Most Dubliners avoid the area like the plague on a night out. It is quite possible to have a night out in the centre without having to mix with drunken Stag and Hen's.

odlum833 · September 10th, 2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB-1888

Ok, maybe I'm playing with fire with that one. No one seems to want to bite.

Best City in Ireland? Belfast, obviously.

Few of the current gold medals are:

Tallest office building in Ireland - Belfast (Windsor House)
Tallest residential building in Ireland - Belfast (Divis Tower)
Tallest hospital in Ireland - Belfast (City Hospital Tower Block)
Tallest hotel in Ireland - Belfast (Hilton at Laganside)
Biggest brownfield site redevelopment - Belfast (Titanic quarter)
Widest motorway in Ireland - Belfast (M2 Foreshore)

I'm obviously talking about what currently exists, not whats in the pipeline.

Dublin is a bigger city then Belfast though with very lofty ambitions. The tallest office and residential buildings planned are in Dublin. The first of these is under construction where the Point Depot use to be. As for having the widest motorway - currently there is 53kms of Motorway in Dublin (the M1/M50 and M11). If we expand that to Co Dublin there is around 70kms with 10km's of the M3 under construction. The M50 is eight lanes wide but expands to 6 at some junctions after the upgrade. How many km's of motorway in Belfast?

Now the largest 'Brownfield site' is Dublin Docklands Authority land - 'Titanic Quarter' is no where near as big - even though it is a big site - unless you are talking about a single development site with a single aim.

Lets move on to transport shall we?

Dublin in 6 years:

Metro
DART
DART interconnector
Luas
Suburban Rail
Bus
Taxi

Belfast in 6 years

Suburban Rail
Bus
Taxi

So to sum up the 'tallest building' status will be gone by 2010 in Belfast - 120m - that could possibly be broken again but unlikely. The U2 tower at 180m - game, set, match.

BTW id just like to draw your attention to the fact that Divis Tower and Windsor House are unbelievably ugly and I would not want anything like them within 100 miles of Dublin!

Temple Bar is no longer attracting the same level of stag parties because that social group tend not to be able to afford the prices here. Temple Bar is just tacky and I dont really like it.

937delta · September 10th, 2008, 04:59 PM

So to sum up the 'tallest building' status will be gone by 2010 in Belfast - 120m - that could possibly be broken again but unlikely. The U2 tower at 180m - game, set, match.

Bearing in mind 'masts' or 'spires' on top of buildings do not count, its liveable floor space, how tall is this U2 tower. When will this U2 tower actually be built. Anyway Belfast cannot have a building over 109m due to flight path at city airport, so we cannot get around this.

Metro
DART
DART interconnector
Luas
Suburban Rail
Bus
Taxi

Still congested as hell!!!!!!!!!!!!

cubix · September 10th, 2008, 06:58 PM

For u2 tower the architects specified a tower of 120 m with possible inclusion of a energy centre that would increase height by 50m but this is subject to planning permission,which has already been granted for a 120m tower,i doubt very much this energy contraption will go ahead although some ppl beleive it will.

PB-1888 · September 10th, 2008, 08:33 PM

"Dublin is a bigger city than Belfast".

Yes Dublin may be bigger in terms of population, although not necessarily in area. My understanding is that Greater Belfast and Greater Dublin are comparable in square Km. Anyway if size mattered, Karachi would be one of the best cities in the world. None of us are going to argue that one.

"Still congested as hell"

Just to expand, I'd put a wager on getting around Belfast mile for mile is a lot easier using public or private transport.

For you information I calculate that we have about 35km of motorway. The M1 from Sprucefield, the M2 to Newtownabbey, with the Westlink connecting the two. The M5 to Whiteabbey and the inner city M3 to the Harbour Estate. We don't need as much because it cuts through Belfast, as opposed to ring around it. Theres a perfectly adequate outer ring dual carriageway for that purpose.

"BTW id just like to draw your attention to the fact that Divis Tower and Windsor House are unbelievably ugly"

Well unfortunately for us Liberty Hall is within 100 miles of Belfast. Its not exactly a looker either.

As for beautiful buildings, Belfast City Hall is by a wide margin the finest structure on the Island.

Keano · September 10th, 2008, 08:59 PM

Oh my god, what is the point of childishly comparing each city on obscure merits?
Both Dublin and Belfast are small fry on the world stage. You should be interested in new developments in either city instead of berating what is already there. Grow up ffs

PB-1888 · September 10th, 2008, 09:21 PM

Lighten up Keano. Its only a bit of craic.

PB-1888 · September 10th, 2008, 09:46 PM

Anyway whats wrong with a bit of inter-city rivalry? This happens everywhere. Edinburgh and Glasgow, Sydney and Melbourne, New York and LA. I don't think its bad, competition will drive both to be better. And just for the record, I love Dublin, am down there regularly and certainly wish the city well.

September 8th, 2008, 04:25 AM	#1
odlum833 In the brig Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 6,496 Likes (Received): 83	The Irish Political Thread So this is, in effect, the Irish politics thread. Last edited by odlum833; September 14th, 2008 at 07:35 PM.

September 8th, 2008, 04:04 PM	#3
mikey23 . Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 2,138 Likes (Received): 3	Yay another skybar where i can bump up my post count : P __________________ A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.

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September 8th, 2008, 04:36 AM	#2
saoró... níféidirliomdulacholadh Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Áth Cliath, AE Posts: 573 Likes (Received): 0	Theres already 1 too many bananas -_-

September 8th, 2008, 04:21 PM	#4
Zim Flyer Rock Lord Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Blackpool Posts: 12,920 Likes (Received): 4	What this thread needs is some controversy to get you going. Right I'll start you of, should Ireland rejoin the UK - I'm joking, I'm joking Seriously though I will be popping in from time to time to say hello and check out your transport threads etc (when they appear).

September 8th, 2008, 05:12 PM	#5
937delta Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Buckna Co Antrim UK Posts: 1,331 Likes (Received): 0	should Ireland rejoin the UK You see confusion already with the 'geographic' Ireland, as part of Ireland is already in the UK.

September 8th, 2008, 08:36 PM	#6
PB-1888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: B*FAST Posts: 479 Likes (Received): 0	"Should Ireland rejoin the UK?" 20 years ago I would have said yes. The South's economy then was a joke. Even with everyone in NI doing their best at tearing the place apart it still had a much better infrastructure with much better per person GDP and standard of living, although mostly subsidised by London. Since then, the Celtic Tiger roared and Dublin has shown how successful a small independent European state with an educated English speaking population can be. Northern Ireland has now been left behind in comparison and with our recent debate over corporation tax is arguably being held back by London. Regarding the future of the UK as it is, it is clear that a large chunk of the Scots have looked across the Irish Sea and have wondered if they too, with a similar sized English speaking population, better universities and also with strong links to the US, not too mention oil and gas reserves could emulate Dublin. The answer to that is a no brainer in my opinion. So should Ireland rejoin the UK? No, not now. The more relevant question is; what is the future for the UK assuming the current trajectory in Scotland comes to its eventual logical conclusion. Where does that leave Northern Ireland????

September 9th, 2008, 06:57 PM	#8
PB-1888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: B*FAST Posts: 479 Likes (Received): 0	Ok, maybe I'm playing with fire with that one. No one seems to want to bite. Best City in Ireland? Belfast, obviously. Few of the current gold medals are: Tallest office building in Ireland - Belfast (Windsor House) Tallest residential building in Ireland - Belfast (Divis Tower) Tallest hospital in Ireland - Belfast (City Hospital Tower Block) Tallest hotel in Ireland - Belfast (Hilton at Laganside) Biggest brownfield site redevelopment - Belfast (Titanic quarter) Widest motorway in Ireland - Belfast (M2 Foreshore) I'm obviously talking about what currently exists, not whats in the pipeline.

September 9th, 2008, 07:56 PM	#9
Zim Flyer Rock Lord Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Blackpool Posts: 12,920 Likes (Received): 4	ahh but Dublin has trams and that is a big plus for any city.

September 9th, 2008, 08:45 PM	#10
Onoudidnt Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 128 Likes (Received): 0	i wouldnt say that having the widest motorway or tallest building makes a city great. for me its street life; and the best place in ireland to find this is dublin

September 9th, 2008, 09:59 PM	#11
PB-1888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: B*FAST Posts: 479 Likes (Received): 0	Yes of course. I forgot how all those stag and hen parties from Newcastle (no offence intended) make Dublin's street life undoubtedly the best in Ireland.

September 10th, 2008, 12:17 PM	#12
hcrosskey Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London Posts: 65 Likes (Received): 0	Great to see there is now a forum for Ireland's projects. Just one thing though.. When is the term 'Southern Ireland' ever used? The only times i ever hear it used are when I’m trying to buy a stamp in a Post Office and the server isn't sure if Dublin is in the Republic or the UK lol! I'm not going to blab on about it as the decision has been made, but i would have left out the 'Southern' part in the title.

September 10th, 2008, 12:24 PM	#13
hcrosskey Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London Posts: 65 Likes (Received): 0	The Stag and Hen parties thankfully head to the Temple Bar part of Dublin city centre. Which is basically an area regenerated for tourists who want to visit a 'traditional' Irish bar/pub. Most Dubliners avoid the area like the plague on a night out. It is quite possible to have a night out in the centre without having to mix with drunken Stag and Hen's.

September 10th, 2008, 04:59 PM	#15
937delta Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Buckna Co Antrim UK Posts: 1,331 Likes (Received): 0	So to sum up the 'tallest building' status will be gone by 2010 in Belfast - 120m - that could possibly be broken again but unlikely. The U2 tower at 180m - game, set, match. Bearing in mind 'masts' or 'spires' on top of buildings do not count, its liveable floor space, how tall is this U2 tower. When will this U2 tower actually be built. Anyway Belfast cannot have a building over 109m due to flight path at city airport, so we cannot get around this. Metro DART DART interconnector Luas Suburban Rail Bus Taxi Still congested as hell!!!!!!!!!!!!

September 10th, 2008, 06:58 PM	#16
cubix Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 72 Likes (Received): 0	For u2 tower the architects specified a tower of 120 m with possible inclusion of a energy centre that would increase height by 50m but this is subject to planning permission,which has already been granted for a 120m tower,i doubt very much this energy contraption will go ahead although some ppl beleive it will.

September 10th, 2008, 08:33 PM	#17
PB-1888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: B*FAST Posts: 479 Likes (Received): 0	"Dublin is a bigger city than Belfast". Yes Dublin may be bigger in terms of population, although not necessarily in area. My understanding is that Greater Belfast and Greater Dublin are comparable in square Km. Anyway if size mattered, Karachi would be one of the best cities in the world. None of us are going to argue that one. "Still congested as hell" Just to expand, I'd put a wager on getting around Belfast mile for mile is a lot easier using public or private transport. For you information I calculate that we have about 35km of motorway. The M1 from Sprucefield, the M2 to Newtownabbey, with the Westlink connecting the two. The M5 to Whiteabbey and the inner city M3 to the Harbour Estate. We don't need as much because it cuts through Belfast, as opposed to ring around it. Theres a perfectly adequate outer ring dual carriageway for that purpose. "BTW id just like to draw your attention to the fact that Divis Tower and Windsor House are unbelievably ugly" Well unfortunately for us Liberty Hall is within 100 miles of Belfast. Its not exactly a looker either. As for beautiful buildings, Belfast City Hall is by a wide margin the finest structure on the Island.

September 10th, 2008, 08:59 PM	#18
Keano Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: London, Dublin, Amsterdam, The Hague (currently) Posts: 109 Likes (Received): 0	Oh my god, what is the point of childishly comparing each city on obscure merits? Both Dublin and Belfast are small fry on the world stage. You should be interested in new developments in either city instead of berating what is already there. Grow up ffs

September 10th, 2008, 09:21 PM	#19
PB-1888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: B*FAST Posts: 479 Likes (Received): 0	Lighten up Keano. Its only a bit of craic.

September 10th, 2008, 09:46 PM	#20
PB-1888 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: B*FAST Posts: 479 Likes (Received): 0	Anyway whats wrong with a bit of inter-city rivalry? This happens everywhere. Edinburgh and Glasgow, Sydney and Melbourne, New York and LA. I don't think its bad, competition will drive both to be better. And just for the record, I love Dublin, am down there regularly and certainly wish the city well.