The Irish Political Thread

[belfastuniguy]

The lack of any accuracy in Odlum's rants is hardly uncommon. He's an embarrassment to good decent Irish people that use these forums, spreading his hate and myopic opinions and painting a very bad image.

[saoró...]

Hahh, there is the stability factor though. It wouldnt be so bad if our biggest trading partner was in the club too, ye know... Then it would be "optimal" for us

[saoró...]

Originally Posted by belfastuniguy

I'll bet you £100 your government would have loved to have full monetary control during the recession. I bet you another £100 that Greece and Spain also want such a thing.

Can I have that in euro?

Originally Posted by belfastuniguy

The lack of any accuracy in Odlum's rants is hardly uncommon. He's an embarrassment to good decent Irish people that use these forums, spreading his hate and myopic opinions and painting a very bad image.

Hahha, hmmm yes, Delta is a beacon of enlightenment, is he not?

[belfastuniguy]

Delta....the very name has me laughing at his utter retardation.


No....has to be £ I'm afraid, don't like your monopoly money

[saoró...]

lol, but its so much prettier... I give it a decade, ill be buying haggis and pasties in shiny €€€s

[niterider]

Originally Posted by saoró...

Niterider... its also insular to ignore the history as to why Irish is in the state it is...

Please quote me where I said otherwise. I never said I didn't appreciate the reason Irish was pushed aside in the past and English pushed as the primary language. Yes it happened and nobody should be forced to use a different language, but it's not unique history to Ireland and the English language.

Originally Posted by saoró...

its on the up and its a cultural pillar worth preserving... every bit as valuble as english is - if in a different sense.

Of course it is.
However, the majority of Irish people continue to use English as their primary language - by choice. Not because of anything to do with England, but simply because it's the major world langugage and it suits them do use it - whether that's as their primary language is for the populace to decide through choice, and currently they continue with English.

Originally Posted by saoró...

Im weary of your opinion now, based on your avatar :P On the topic of flags, can I ask why you fly that one?

Considering the :p i'll take that with a pinch of salt. Otherwise it would simply indicate more about you than me.

I fly that flag because I respect the right of Israel to exist and the existence of this progressive democracy in a region with neighbours of lets say, less progressive characteristics (without getting into political discussions please).

Either way I don't see why you need to single out someone just for having an Israeli avatar.

[sumisu]

I left Ireland for Canada 20 years ago this year. I did my primary schooling in Irish, but I've forgotten everything since then, but since last September I've been taking Irish at the University of Toronto part-time.

You'd be surprised how popular it is here, and it's a great way for me to reconnect with my roots (half of my family are native Irish speakers). Last time I was back I heard more Irish than ever before on the streets. Now it was only two or three people, but that's two or three more than before, and also it was in the gaeltacht.

[niterider]

You'll also find a surprising number of speakers and Irish language influence in speech in Newfoundland. Found their accents a weird Irish/North American hybrid when I visited

[saoró...]

Originally Posted by niterider

Please quote me where I said otherwise. I never said I didn't appreciate the reason Irish was pushed aside in the past and English pushed as the primary language. Yes it happened and nobody should be forced to use a different language, but it's not unique history to Ireland and the English language.

...not directly but right here...

Originally Posted by niterider

Of course it is.
However, the majority of Irish people continue to use English as their primary language - by choice. Not because of anything to do with England, but simply because it's the major world langugage and it suits them do use it - whether that's as their primary language is for the populace to decide through choice, and currently they continue with English.

An entire country does not simply choose a language, it was lost over centuries, and will take a long time to restore. Its not a problem we can fix overnight but choose not to.

Originally Posted by niterider

Considering the :p i'll take that with a pinch of salt. Otherwise it would simply indicate more about you than me.

hheh, wise.

Originally Posted by niterider

I fly that flag because I respect the right of Israel to exist and the existence of this progressive democracy in a region with neighbours of lets say, less progressive characteristics (without getting into political discussions please).

Either way I don't see why you need to single out someone just for having an Israeli avatar.

I ask because there are certain parallels to be drawn with what happened in Ireland centuries ago... the topic at hand... hence your opinions on one matter may reflect those on the other. Im not trying to single you out at all :P ...Israels actions are hardly those of a progressive democracy however, but if you dont wish to discuss it, its cool. We can agree to disagree on that one

Originally Posted by sumisu

You'd be surprised how popular it is here, and it's a great way for me to reconnect with my roots (half of my family are native Irish speakers). Last time I was back I heard more Irish than ever before on the streets. Now it was only two or three people, but that's two or three more than before, and also it was in the gaeltacht.

Happy to say I agree with you, and having heard more and more in dublin in recent years. Last week for example in my college, for seachtain na gaeilge, participants wore green hoodies which invite conversation in irish and they have to refrain from speaking english themselves

英語と日本語とアイルランド語を話す！？それはすごいだよ、smith-さん トロントに行きたい。。。 ぼくの日本語は下手だ、すみません　:P

[sumisu]

Originally Posted by saoró...

...not directly but right here...



Happy to say I agree with you, and having heard more and more in dublin in recent years. Last week for example in my college, for seachtain na gaeilge, participants wore green hoodies which invite conversation in irish and they have to refrain from speaking english themselves

英語と日本語とアイルランド語を話す！？それはすごいだよ、smith-さん トロントに行きたい。。。 ぼくの日本語は下手だ、すみません　:P

フランス語も分かる。三年間日本に住んでいました、でも今毎日忘れます。。。you're Japanese is great!

I think the green hoodies idea for seachtain na gaeilge is great. much better than a button or something.

[niterider]

Originally Posted by saoró...

...not directly but right here...



An entire country does not simply choose a language, it was lost over centuries, and will take a long time to restore. Its not a problem we can fix overnight but choose not to.

Please read my post - I said they continue to use English as a primary language. That is, today, whilst Irish has indeed grown in popularity as a language, at the present time, most people have not decided to try and become fluent in it - they continue (the bold is for emphasis ;-) ) to use English as their primary language. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by saoró...

hheh, wise.



I ask because there are certain parallels to be drawn with what happened in Ireland centuries ago... the topic at hand... hence your opinions on one matter may reflect those on the other. Im not trying to single you out at all :P ...Israels actions are hardly those of a progressive democracy however, but if you dont wish to discuss it, its cool. We can agree to disagree on that one



Happy to say I agree with you, and having heard more and more in dublin in recent years. Last week for example in my college, for seachtain na gaeilge, participants wore green hoodies which invite conversation in irish and they have to refrain from speaking english themselves

英語と日本語とアイルランド語を話す！？それはすごいだよ、smith-さん トロントに行きたい。。。 ぼくの日本語は下手だ、すみません　:P

You need to get over your complex. I know what happened in Ireland - I am Irish myself however I do not have your victim complex.

As for Israel - it is indeed a progressive democracy in comparision to its neighbours. I enjoy it when i visit the country and do not apologise for doing so - the fact that you judge someone on their support for the right of Israel to exist speaks volumes on your part. Yes it has done wrongs, but so has its neighbours hell bent on its destruction. Now, time to move this thread onwards please......

[odlum833]

Originally Posted by belfastuniguy

The lack of any accuracy in Odlum's rants is hardly uncommon. He's an embarrassment to good decent Irish people that use these forums, spreading his hate and myopic opinions and painting a very bad image.

The Unionist collective psyche of amnesia is alive and well I see.

[saoró...]

Originally Posted by niterider

Please read my post - I said they continue to use English as a primary language. That is, today, whilst Irish has indeed grown in popularity as a language, at the present time, most people have not decided to try and become fluent in it - they continue (the bold is for emphasis ;-) ) to use English as their primary language. Deal with it.

They continue to use the de facto langauge - of course! Asides some serious draconian policies, there is no solution but slow encouragement. Its stupid to suggest "choosing" a language is a simple matter. I dont know what you're asking me to deal with? :P

Originally Posted by niterider

You need to get over your complex. I know what happened in Ireland - I am Irish myself however I do not have your victim complex.

As for Israel - it is indeed a progressive democracy in comparision to its neighbours. I enjoy it when i visit the country and do not apologise for doing so - the fact that you judge someone on their support for the right of Israel to exist speaks volumes on your part. Yes it has done wrongs, but so has its neighbours hell bent on its destruction. Now, time to move this thread onwards please......

Eh? How does acknowledging history equate to a victim complex? I wasnt throwing blame around, just providing context.... things will take time.

I think people tend to read posts in an aggressive manner if its in any way controversial. Chill dewd.

What are ye talking about? I never mentioned its right to exist, I just critcised its behaviour. Im not judging you(hows that?) on shit, but as this is the politics thread, your opinions on political matters will no doubt have some consistency, so the analysis is legitimate. I have a victim complex, eh?

Originally Posted by sumisu

フランス語も分かる。三年間日本に住んでいました、でも今毎日忘れます。。。you're Japanese is great!

Hahha まじですか！ ありがとう。フランス語も分かる？ 頭がいいね！ 福岡にいました、一ヶ月だけ :P その国が大好き！返りたい。。。:/

[belfastuniguy]

Originally Posted by odlum833

The Unionist collective psyche of amnesia is alive and well I see.

Oh....there was me thinking (rightly so) that people on the UK skybar tore about your woeful understanding of history and shockingly poor level of education on the matter. Indeed that very same conclusion was mentioned by a fellow Irishman who also witnessed your shameful grasp of history.

I do so wish you would cease embarrassing yourself on such topics, fun that it is exposing your retardation on many subjects, I do have a sense of pity for you as I see your 'points' torn to shreds.

[odlum833]

Sargent to respond to garda letter claims
Tuesday, 23 February 2010 16:37
The Garda Commissioner has requested an urgent report into allegations that Minister of State Trevor Sargent wrote to gardaí in an effort to prevent one of his constituents being prosecuted for criminal offences.

The junior minister is expected to make a personal statement to the Dáil at around 5.15pm. Watch Dáil proceedings live

Fachtna Murphy has asked local garda management in the division to compile a report for him on the facts of the matter.

According to the Evening Herald newspaper, the junior minister wrote to gardaí seeking to have charges against his constituent dropped.

The constituent, 39-year-old Dominic McGowan from Balbriggan, was later convicted of threatening and abusive behaviour and fined €500.

Fine Gael Justice Spokesperson Charlie Flanagan is to raise the matter in the Dáil this evening.

Mr Flanagan has said the issue is a resignation matter if the story stands up and has said Green Party leader John Gormley should act.

Labour's Justice Spokesperson Pat Rabbitte said he was 'very surprised' by the allegations.

He added that he found it hard to believe that Mr Sargent would have knowingly intervened in such a case.

Senator Frances Fitzgerald has told the Seanad that efforts by a public representative to influence the course of justice was not an acceptable standard.

There has been no comment yet from Mr Sargent, but a spokesperson for the Green Party TD for Dublin North said Mr Sargent had contacted gardaí in relation to the case of a constituent who had been assaulted and claimed to be in fear of his life.

In a statement, the spokesperson added that the Green Party understands that the individual was summoned to court for threatening and abusive behaviour.

On the 17 April 2002, Mr Sargent spoke in the Dáil on the resignation of Bobby Molloy due to approaches to a judge's office regarding a rape case.

He said: 'Any representation relating to a court case ought to be acknowledged with a warning about the need not to interfere in any way with due judicial process.'

RTE

Another Minister gone.

[Catmalojin]

Originally Posted by odlum833

Another Minister gone.

We need all of them gone.

[nordisk celt83]

Looks like we have our first definite Presidential candidate for 2011...

There's a lot of discussion on a newly created thread over on politics.ie that Senator David Norris is already beginning the process of seeking a nomination to be the next President of Ireland. He's most likely to look for support from the Labour Party.

This all stems from an article he did with the Sunday Tribune 2 weeks earlier in which he admitted his ambition to be the next President...

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news...or-presidency/


I think he'd be great. Although, he often has rather controversial views that I disagree with, and I've a funny feeling they'll come back to haunt him.

I reckon we'll be looking at President Brian Crowley. He'll get the sympathy vote!

[Catmalojin]

As long as it's not President Bertie Ahern.

Let's hope we actually have an election this time!

[nordisk celt83]

I know there was talk of it, but it really is an impossibilty at this stage. Thankfully, the game's up for Bertie!

I think it'll def be Brian Crowley as he expressed an interest in the past, and seems rather popular with the voting public. He's a tad boring as a candidate, but would be a worthy first citizen all the same...


EDIT: Interesting point noted on politics.ie this evening. Since that article there's been a bit of a run on him with paddy power. Norris has gone from being 33/1 to second favourite at 9/2 in two weeks!

[Catmalojin]

Fine Gael have launched their much anticipated "New Politics" political reform document:

FG launch 'New Politics' reform plan

Fine Gael’s ‘New Politics’ plan is the most ambitious political reform package since the 1930s and will place the Citizen firmly at the centre of government, Party Environment Spokesman, Phil Hogan TD said at its launch today (Monday).

See document here.

“This comprehensive reform package contains the most radical proposals put forward by any party in 70 years. Fine Gael wants to build a ‘New Republic’ where a smaller, more nimble government is held to account, trust is restored in our democratic institutions and the concerns of the Citizen, rather than the elites are placed firmly at the centre of government.

“Fine Gael’s starting point is simple: political failure lies at the heart of Ireland’s economic collapse. The old politics does not work. Real, tangible change is needed and Fine Gael’s proposals will provide it. It is built on four principles:

• A Single Chamber Oireachtas.
• A New Dáil: Fine Gael wants toto expand the role and power of TDs so that they can truly hold the Government to account.
• Open Government: Trust in Government will be restored by opening it up to outside scrutiny and making party political funding more transparent.
• Empowering the Citizen: We want to shift the balance of power between the State and the Citizen so that local communities and individuals have more power over their own lives.

“Specifically, as outlined in ‘New Politics’, Fine Gael will:

• Reduce the number of TDs by 20;
• Hold a referendum on the abolition of the Seanad;
• Provide a vote in Presidential elections for Irish citizens living abroad;
• Reduce the President’s term from seven years to five;
• Significantly strengthen Freedom of Information making it cheaper and easier for the public to receive information to which they are entitled.
• Fortify the Dáil committee system to hold the Government to account;
• Shift power from the Cabinet to the Dáil and reform the legislative process to give TDs real influence over the drafting of legislation.
• We will radically overhaul our archaic Budget process.

“Fine Gael wants to put the Citizen at the heart of decision making and give people real influence and real power. Within its first hundred days a Fine Gael Government will establish a Citizens Assembly, along the lines of similar assemblies which have been used in Canada and in the Netherlands to consider political and electoral reform. It will have up to 100 members who will be chosen from the public to reflect the demographic make-up of Ireland and will play a crucial role in the development of the broad constitutional agenda.

“The Assembly will also be asked to consider how the representation of women in politics might best be increased. Fine Gael believes it is crucial that there are more female TDs and local councillors and will adopt measures internally to encourage this development at all levels in the electoral process.

“Of course, some of the Fine Gael proposals will require major constitutional change and, within 12 months of assuming office, Fine Gael will hold a ‘super referendum’ on Constitution Day, at which the people will be asked to approve a single chamber Oireachtas and changes to other articles of the Constitution covering the institutions of the State.

“This year, we also want to see two additional constitutional amendments to be put to a referendum on the same day of the Children’s Referendum. These would allow Judge’s salaries to be adjusted and would allow the effects of the Abbeylara decision to be reversed.

“Ministers should also never again be allowed to avoid responsibility. Significant changes in the way senior public servants and departments work are badly needed and Fine Gael will create a new Senior Civil Service where key officials can be employed across the public sector, wherever the need is greatest, and not just in one department. Each senior civil servant will sign a contract with their individual line Minister outlining in detail their areas of responsibility. This will allow senior officials to be held individually accountable for their performance in these areas. We will also ensure that there is greater involvement of senior personnel from outside

“Fine Gael is convinced that public confidence in government can be restored but only if there is real tangible change in the political system. The New Politics is designed to tackle head-on the major weaknesses in our archaic system of government, so that the huge policy mistakes of the last few years will not be repeated.

“We are not suggesting that political reform, by itself, is a panacea for all that ails our country. But we are convinced that political failure lies at the heart of Ireland’s economic failure. If we want to fix the economy, and return Ireland to growth and prosperity, we must also fix the political system.”

I've had a quick glance through it, and although they've removed the proposal for a partial list system, if you combine it with their local government policy launched back in May it is an excellent plan, and I would view it as a positive "start". It's more than Fianna Fáil are offering us, anyway.