daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Irish Architecture Forum

Irish Architecture Forum For architecture in both the North and South



Reply

 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 28 votes, 5.00 average.
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:14 AM   #101
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by indiekid View Post
Sorry Xenon, but you don't have much of an argument. Ireland isn't British, nor has it expressed the desire to be. They are thriving independently, rejoining would be a shot to the foot. Maybe you need to focus less on geography and start looking at the bigger picture.
I don't follow a revisionist opinion on what is and isn't British. British is originating from the British Isles. Ireland has always been and always considered to be British. The British form 4 main tribes, the English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh. You can divide those tribes into two separate sovereign states, but the Irish are still British. Most of the Irish don't have British nationality in law that's true, because 26 counties of Ireland are currently a separate sovereign state, but that doesn't make Ireland not British. The Irish are British regardless of their legal nationality, they are still Irish of course and being both does not conflict with or diminish the other. The Irish nation is part of the larger British nation, just like England, Scotland and Wales, but unlike England, Scotland and Wales not currently part of the UK. The Irish should be entitled to British citizenship just like those In Ulster are entitled to Irish citizenship for the Irish are not foreigners, they are our fellow brothers and sisters, they form an essential component of the British people and they should be respected as such and not denied their rights.

I DO look at the bigger picture! Those wanting a "United Ireland" only look at the partition of the island of Ireland and convienently ignore the partition of the British Isles into two separate states. They ignore what caused the partition to begin with, the 26 counties being turfed out of the Union, and they ignore the logical solution to end this problem, those 26 counties welcome and long overdue return. Ulster has never been part of the Irish Republic but the Irish Republic was part of the UK! Those wanting a "United Ireland" want the people of the British Isles LESS united than before, while I want to end ALL division of the people within the British Isles! I'm consistent and don't ignore the larger issue. We need to compromise to achieve our goals and Ulster leaving the United Kingdom to hook up with the Irish Republic is no compromise from the Irish separatists, it just makes a bad situation even worse! We need less division between the people, not more like the Irish separatist seeks.

Last edited by XenonII; October 14th, 2008 at 01:29 AM.
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #102
indiekid
Hipster Scum
 
indiekid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,831
Likes (Received): 848

Where is Lostboy when you need him

Btw you've still not anwsered why Ireland would want to rejoin.
indiekid no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #103
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8,230
Likes (Received): 552

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenonII View Post
Ireland has always been and always considered to be British. .

Erm.... no, they are not. That is just reality. That is a pretty impressive bubble you are living in that is for sure.
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:24 AM   #104
saoró...
níféidirliomdulacholadh
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Áth Cliath, AE
Posts: 643
Likes (Received): 20

You might find this useful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termino..._British_Isles
saoró... no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:48 AM   #105
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post
His geography is skewed anyway - since when was any of Ireland part of Britain?
Britain is the British nation. Britain consists of 4 nations: England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Great Britain is an island. Great Britain is not Britain, just the largest and most populous island within Britain. Britain can also be used instead of British Isles. All of Ireland is part of Britain but not all of Ireland is currently part of the UK. The United Kingdom is not a nation and neither is the Irish Republic, they are sovereign states. The UK contains 3 and a bit nations, the other part of the 4th being in the Irish Republic. When the Irish Republic rejoins the UK, which is inevitable in the long term, then the UK will be a nation once more.
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:52 AM   #106
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8,230
Likes (Received): 552

Can I have some of what your smoking?....please
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 01:56 AM   #107
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by indiekid View Post
Point taken

I think he just doesn't like Britain controlling one part of the island, instead of all of it
I believe the United Kingdom should consist of the whole of the British Isles, because I believe the British nation consists of the whole of the British Isles and that nations should be united and not divided. I also believe that there should be a home rule parliament in Dublin representing the whole of the island of Ireland for local domestic matters. Ireland should have a very large measure of self government, but should not be separate from the rest of the country, out in the cold like at present. We need a balance. I don't think these are unreasonable or inachievable beliefs either.
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:03 AM   #108
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB-1888 View Post
Do you propose calling Scotland "Northern Britain" and England "Southern Britain" as originally envisaged in the 1707 Act of Union?
No because Northern Ireland is also part of northern Britain and Southern Ireland is also part of southern Britain (the far south of Ireland at least). Scotland would be "North East Britain" but I don't see any point in such a designation, Scotland is fine.
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:11 AM   #109
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by indiekid View Post
Most people just call it England really
The Welsh will love that.
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:16 AM   #110
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB-1888 View Post
Yes of course. Just a side point, as a Scot I'm sure you get really annoyed the way the Beeb portrays GB on the weather map with Scotland disproportionately smaller than England, even though they are roughly the same size.

Edit: In terms of length, not area
Can't say i've noticed but what's the deal with Iceland being shown almost as large as GB?
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:23 AM   #111
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by indiekid View Post
Xenon all you keep saying is that it should, but you've never actually answered why it would want to.
I don't propose forcing them back into the Union. It will be up for the Irish to decide when they are ready. We can wait but we will keep discussing it and in the meantime, the issue needs to be brought to the forefront of the national concenscious. One reason why they may want to would be it would end the partition of the island of Ireland and the Irish nation and they would have far more local autonomy under devolution than they ever had under the UK's previous system of administration of direct rule. The idea may become more popular amongst the "rebellious south" when they realise that Ulster is British and there will be no surrender! They would also have a real input into the running of the 2nd most powerful nation on Earth with the 2nd highest defence spending in the world (despite throwing away most of its Empire as if it was bad rubbish) and with a permanent seat on the UN Secuirty Council and one of the richest nations on God's green earth. Those are all splendid reasons by my reckoning.

Last edited by XenonII; October 14th, 2008 at 02:30 AM.
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:30 AM   #112
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8,230
Likes (Received): 552

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenonII View Post
They would also have a real input into the running of the 2nd most powerful nation on Earth
Yes, we would not mind running China for them - not gonna happen though
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:34 AM   #113
belfastuniguy
Subliving
 
belfastuniguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belfast
Posts: 14,614
Likes (Received): 2049

I'm not even going to bother and respond to you XenonII.

The sheer amount of utter and total bullshit you have spewed would take too much of my time to respond to properly and its really not worth my effort.

Though I do think you need a reality check to be honest.

Quote:
Can't say i've noticed but what's the deal with Iceland being shown almost as large as GB?
Seriously doubt its shown as large as GB. Iceland however isn't exactly a tiny place, its about half the size of GB at about 40,000 sq miles. Its bigger than the entire island of Ireland....maybe you need to become more geography aware.

Last edited by belfastuniguy; October 14th, 2008 at 02:39 AM.
belfastuniguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:36 AM   #114
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post
Yes, we would not mind running China for them - not gonna happen though
I was talking about the United Kingdom of Great Britain and (Northern) Ireland of course (UK), not the People's Republic of China (PRC). How many nations has Red China invaded in recent times (excluding the invasion of British Hong Kong)? The current UK of course is not a nation, but with the return of the 26 lost counties, it would be. Why should Unionists settle for a meare 6 counties of the island of Ireland when Irish separatists are not content with 26?! Unionism must evolve, Unionism must seek to recover the lost counties and secure Ireland's - ALL of Ireland - place within the Union. Just as Hong Kong went back to China, Southern Ireland should come back to Britain! Those in Ulster shouldn't fear its return either, for it can be run similar to how Scotland is now and will be the best of both worlds - secure Ulster's place within the Union while uniting Ireland (and Britain)!

Last edited by XenonII; October 14th, 2008 at 02:44 AM.
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 07:15 AM   #115
XenonII
Hero of Soviet Russia
 
XenonII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The British Dominions Beyond the Seas
Posts: 217
Likes (Received): 0

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by odlum833 View Post
Can I have some of what your smoking?....please
My body is a temple to the Lord Jesus Christ.
XenonII no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 09:18 AM   #116
937delta
Registered User
 
937delta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Buckna Co Antrim UK
Posts: 1,331
Likes (Received): 0

Funny how Irish republicans like to seperate out Britian into 3 seperate nations, even though they are on a 'small' island, yet will never accept that there are 2 countries on the Island of Ireland.
937delta no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 02:52 PM   #117
Boba Fett22
Registered User
 
Boba Fett22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belfast
Posts: 1,196
Likes (Received): 32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onoudidnt View Post
i wouldnt say that having the widest motorway or tallest building makes a city great.
True, but I think PB is sorta joking.
Boba Fett22 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 06:19 PM   #118
odlum833
Registered User
 
odlum833's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8,230
Likes (Received): 552

Quote:
Originally Posted by 937delta View Post
yet will never accept that there are 2 countries on the Island of Ireland.


I would not term Northern Ireland a 'country' - '6 counties', yes. The 'Northeast', yes. The 'North', possibly. Never heard it described as a 'country'.




I have rarely come across as much nonsense anywhere else on the internet as what is in the last two pages of this thread.
odlum833 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #119
belfastuniguy
Subliving
 
belfastuniguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belfast
Posts: 14,614
Likes (Received): 2049

Northern Ireland is a constituent country. Just as Wales, England and Scotland are also constituent countries of the United Kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_country

I would see Northern Ireland as a country, I HATE the term province sounds rather deeming in my opinion.


So yes you could very well argue that the island of Ireland contains the countries of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
belfastuniguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2008, 07:47 PM   #120
PB-1888
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: B*FAST
Posts: 479
Likes (Received): 0

Xenon puts forward an argument, that to be honest I've never heard anyone else express. He does seem consistent, even if a bit bonkers. A word of advice - if you're aspiration is to become reality you will need to persuade all of us doubters, and that will require answering the obvious questions put forward to you, which I dont think you can.

I hate 'province' too, makes me think of hicksvilles and hillbillies.

One the one hand NI and RoI can both be described as separate countries, in that they have internationally recognised borders and each send a team to the World Cup (or at least try to). However my passport says Ireland, and is meant to include the 'whole'. A British passport will say the UK of GB and NI. Therefore you could argue the RoI isn't a country because no passport exists for the citizens of the 26 counties not subject to the British Crown. NI is included within the British passport, and the Irish passport refers to the island. All very confusing.
PB-1888 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu