NIMBYism in our cities

[ross_the_man]

Originally Posted by L2

Isn't the Lovett Tower at Woden Town Centre 25 levels? Ironic that it's not in the declared "CBD" (lol, that place is hardly a "CBD"), used to be the tallest non-CBD building in Australia.

Last time that I was in the "CBD" (very early April 2008 - have not revisited the "Territory" since) there was still surface level carparks, full of workers cars on weekdays and empty on the weekend. Come on, you call this the centre of the capital of Australia?

Canberra IMO is a pathetic excuse for a regional city let alone the nation's capital. No wonder that I avoid it whereever possible

yeah we have our fair share of NIMBY's but the place isn't pathetic. CIVIC is pretty quiet on weekends except for the main shopping area and Lovett tower is still by far the tallest. But it has some mad architecture, good university's, every facility, it pretty much has anything any other city has except a beach. All the ground parking areas are going to be replaced by construction over the years. The major problem with canberra is the NIMBY's have way way too much control

[Dockside]

Just left on the Unchain St kilda web site a nasty little rant. We all should flood there web site with supporting rants for the proposal...

[Fabian]

In Redfern..

[LanceDriver]

^ grrrrrr!!! one of the worst and they stick their bib into localities out of their area too. it's because of them redfern has a pissy 18 storey limit and it's right on the edge of the cbd! the commi towers are taller than that. they don't help their people at all. bad news.

anyway -

on stateline (abc) tonight the greens candidate for lord mayor of sydney said sydney could still become one of the major economic powerhouses with well thought out 3 storey developments. i kid you not! when are greens going to realise that densifying benefits the environment? the problem is that although he probably wont get lord mayor he will end up as a councillor along with 1 or 2 of his cronies.

[Dockside]

UNCHAIN ST KILDA will not put my post up unless i give them my full name & landline phone number..as if any1 would give them that information over the internetif i was on there side it would go up straight away

[Anberlin]

The crew.

[invincible]

Originally Posted by Dockside

UNCHAIN ST KILDA will not put my post up unless i give them my full name & landline phone number..as if any1 would give them that information over the internetif i was on there side it would go up straight away

Remind them of their obligations under the Privacy Act.

From http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...8108/sch3.html

1.1 An organisation must not collect personal information unless the information is necessary for one or more of its functions or activities.

1.3 At or before the time (or, if that is not practicable, as soon as practicable after) an organisation collects personal information about an individual from the individual, the organisation must take reasonable steps to ensure that the individual is aware of:

(a) the identity of the organisation and how to contact it; and

(b) the fact that he or she is able to gain access to the information; and

(c) the purposes for which the information is collected; and

(d) the organisations (or the types of organisations) to which the organisation usually discloses information of that kind; and

(e) any law that requires the particular information to be collected; and

(f) the main consequences (if any) for the individual if all or part of the information is not provided.

Less legalese here: http://www.privacy.gov.au/privacy_ri...ndex.html#todo

[MILIUX]

I think there are some legitimate NIMBY out there. For example, if a Westfield wants to build it's mega shopping centre in The Rocks, and have do demolish dozens of terraces and sandstone buildings, i think NIMBY is justified.

If i have to choose between pedestrian mall and shopping centre, i would choose pedestrian mall. The last thing i want is people being encouraged to use cars instead of public transport to shop.

[invincible]

^ But the lines are being increasingly blurred.

Melbourne Central is essentially another shopping centre - but I say that in a good way because it's positioned very well in the middle of the CBD, on top of a train station. There is little parking which is also very expensive and driving there is a bitch so very few people are going to use their cars. It also has a good layout - no mazes - just four levels of shops in a linear arrangement plus a central section with all the major destinations - train station, food courts, several bars and a cinema.

On the other hand, Knox's newest section is an outdoor pedestrian mall. But people still drive because it's in a terrible location.

[MILIUX]

Obviously there are some exceptions. But my example is in reference to typical Westfield in the middle of suburbia where people often drive there to shop. With extensive carparks that are often free for first few hours. I would rather have pedestrian malls in town centre and medium density apartments (up to 20 storey) surrounding these retail area.

If a Westfield is about to build a new centre in the middle of suburbs and it will severely impact the pedestrian mall surrounding it, i would often support those locals. There is nothing worse than sucking the life of town centres because the locals just drive there for a 1 stop centre. I'm sure there are many examples where this occurred. For example, Burwood, North Ryde, Bondi Junction, just to name a few.

There are many issues needing to be balanced. If the Westfield has a monopoly power in the retail sector of that suburb. Westfield Parramatta isn't a monopoly, but although it slices a significant proportion, there are cafes, restaurants, retail section along Church Street. The Civic Place will also lesson the Westfield retail significance.

[Lightness]

In Sydney we're not just seeing Nimbyism out in the community, no here we promote them to town hall. I quote our dear "leader" Mayor Clover Moore from her website on the subject of development:

Planning & Development

Government preoccupation with development has left many residents vulnerable, our unique heritage under threat, and our environment unprotected. We need important reforms in our development, planning and environment laws to reverse the decline.

At the State level, I have led opposition to the continued erosion of our rights to be involved in major planning and development decisions, and the reduction of environmental and heritage safeguards. Decision making on key sites such as East Darling Harbour, Caritas and the Chippendale Brewery has effectively been taken out of the public arean, while the Redfern-Waterloo Authority removes a huge area from local planning control.

As Lord Mayor, one of my first decisions was to increase the certainty of existing planning controls, limiting the flexibility that enabled deals for overdevelopment by the former council. The City is now undertaking the massive review and consultation process needed to develop new, contemporary planning controls that will provide certainty for residents and developers.

I am committed to working for legally enforceable safeguards in areas that are zoned residential to protect the safety and amenity of inner Sydney residents.

I speak up for residents. I prepare submissions and advocate for residents affected by developments and construction.
My Independent Team of Councillors at the City determines development and shares my commitment. I work at all levels of Government to get the job done.

With sensitive and appropriate development, effective planning controls and efficient public transport, we can retain our area as exciting, vibrant and liveable.

And that's all she has to say about development. No new ideas or positive thoughts, her stance is to be against everything, everywhere.

In the meanwhile all development are happening on the fringes of our city where these sort of politicians can't reach...

[BSD]

As you imagine, Nimby's are worse here. They always get on one to another projects. For example, Angel Beach Nth, The Hill, McLean Ridges and Lismore regional airport.

[historyworks]

Fortunately my backyard is a nimby-free zone

[Jimmy James]

Geelong is the registered home of the NIMBY doing their level best to shout down any highrise development within 70kms of the CBD.

The reduction of Edgewater is just one sad example, the pointless and ridiculous fight against the Yarra St footbridge, the fact that any approved development or change approved by the council makes front page headlines.

[driglow]

With the exception of Sydney which has hubs all over, do other Australian cities even have a chance to densify their suburbs when there is this much nimbyism still alive?

[LanceDriver]

Originally Posted by Lightness

In Sydney we're not just seeing Nimbyism out in the community, no here we promote them to town hall. I quote our dear "leader" Mayor Clover Moore from her website on the subject of development:

...

And that's all she has to say about development. No new ideas or positive thoughts, her stance is to be against everything, everywhere.

In the meanwhile all development are happening on the fringes of our city where these sort of politicians can't reach...

and the sad thing is she just got voted back in as lord mayor by a massive amount and 3 times more votes than her nearest rival. sydney is up the shit! the reason why those biggies have been taken out of clowncils hands is because council would stifle them and not act in the nations best interests. sydney can't be run like some distant suburb. i hope the big and important ones never get given back to clowncil planning.

[historyworks]

Originally Posted by MILIUX

I think there are some legitimate NIMBY out there. For example, if a Westfield wants to build it's mega shopping centre in The Rocks, and have do demolish dozens of terraces and sandstone buildings, i think NIMBY is justified.

LOL that's already basically been done in the Rocks - under the guise of 'preserving' the area! I think you might mean Millers Point, and even that's going under. Neither area has any 'nimbys' to defend it!

Originally Posted by MILIUX

Obviously there are some exceptions. But my example is in reference to typical Westfield in the middle of suburbia where people often drive there to shop. With extensive carparks that are often free for first few hours. I would rather have pedestrian malls in town centre and medium density apartments (up to 20 storey) surrounding these retail area.

If a Westfield is about to build a new centre in the middle of suburbs and it will severely impact the pedestrian mall surrounding it, i would often support those locals. There is nothing worse than sucking the life of town centres because the locals just drive there for a 1 stop centre. I'm sure there are many examples where this occurred. For example, Burwood, North Ryde, Bondi Junction, just to name a few.

There are many issues needing to be balanced. If the Westfield has a monopoly power in the retail sector of that suburb. Westfield Parramatta isn't a monopoly, but although it slices a significant proportion, there are cafes, restaurants, retail section along Church Street. The Civic Place will also lesson the Westfield retail significance.

Westfield and its counterparts are the death of pleasant shopping centres but unfortunately apparently most people are quite happy with them so we are unlikely to see much change. Parramatta is big enough for alternatives to survive but in smaller centres everything around is killed off by them. Bondi Junction is even affecting streetfront centres as far away as Double Bay and Paddington. At least in Sydney many of them are default TODs (not designed that way but located near railway stations anyway). On a recent scan of Newcastle, on the other hand, I see that every Westfield-style shopping mall is located away from railway stations, obviously absolutely no TOD consideration at all by council planners. Newcastle is going to be effed in a big way in the future.

People apparently don't mind that too because they drive. Try and build a railway line through a suburb though (or even underground under it as the case in Beecroft) and the nimbys come out in swarms.

Had an interesting experience Friday night in nimby heartland, Cherrybrook. I was at Cherrybrook ovals for an event and decided I needed something at the supermarket in the very non-TOD shopping centre next door, so close you could spit on the supermarket from the oval if it wasn't for the 3 metre barbed wire fence between them. So I thought I'd try walking in. Followed the barbed wire fence on the northern side for ages and eventually came to the main street entrance - to the carpark, no pedestrian entrance, just cars. Trying to leave in the other direction every way out was blocked, only the car entrance. And walking back the other way the footpath died out, you had to walk on the road. The message obviously is - forget about PT, forget about walking, even if you live 100 metres away you drive the Prado there. Funnily enough the nimbys don't complain about all of this but I guess when the fuel situation really starts to bite they will be the first to ask the government to 'rescue' them from their predicament.

I don't blame people for living there - people have to live where they can afford. But the official incompetence of a failed planning system is really criminal neglect.

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by LanceDriver

^ grrrrrr!!! one of the worst and they stick their bib into localities out of their area too. it's because of them redfern has a pissy 18 storey limit and it's right on the edge of the cbd! the commi towers are taller than that. they don't help their people at all. bad news.

anyway -

on stateline (abc) tonight the greens candidate for lord mayor of sydney said sydney could still become one of the major economic powerhouses with well thought out 3 storey developments. i kid you not! when are greens going to realise that densifying benefits the environment? the problem is that although he probably wont get lord mayor he will end up as a councillor along with 1 or 2 of his cronies.

You gotta give them more incentives if they want to operate business. Taxes are the highest in Australia for any business based in Sydney and need to be lowered to keep it competitve and cut some of the redtape in getting them approved in the first place.

[Avatar]

Unlike Sydney, newcastle actually does have decent roads. The centres in newcastle have been there since the dawn of time. Realistically there are only two anyway. Charlestown Square and Westfield Kotara (Garden City). The rest of the malls are not noteworthy. Kotara is close to the rail line.

[GrammarGrub]

Sorry to sound like a noob prick, but whats a Nimby.. someone who doesnt like development?