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Old April 13th, 2010, 03:45 AM   #61
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I don't even bother explaining to Canadians what the Republic is and what NI is. They just don't get it. I'll just direct them to wikipedia and be done with it.
Not all Canadians, I'm half Irish btw.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #62
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me too...

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Old April 18th, 2010, 03:35 AM   #63
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me too...

Hi.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 04:22 AM   #64
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Soooo..... Ireland is currently under Turkish occupation? :p
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Old June 7th, 2010, 12:25 AM   #65
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What sort of a lame confused question is that..
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Old June 7th, 2010, 12:35 AM   #66
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the same lame confused question that crops up all over the world, and using different timespans in order to confirm someone's point that everything should go back to the way it was when they decide. It's sarcasm btw......
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Old June 14th, 2010, 01:43 PM   #67
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I thought I'd write here that its great to see the Irish forums getting busier again. I've realised over the past few weeks that the general discussions forums are very active, and both North and South development forums are slowly picking up too I remember a few months ago, when there was about a post every 2 or 3 days on here.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 12:25 PM   #68
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Good morning Irish folk, hope all is well over there. I wrote this below on an English thread, and now I've read through it a few times I'm not sure I've written a load of cack!

Have a look and let me know. Cheers.



There is a subtle difference here. They (Northern Ireland) still see themselves as being "Irish" as well as part of the United Kingdom .... and not "British". In the same way as we in England are also part of the United Kingdom, but we are English and also British.... I'll explain.

Technically speaking, the whole of Ireland ... whether it be North or South is not part of Great Britain. Confusingly, it IS part of the British Isles, but NOT Great Britain. Great Britain is just the mainland, which includes England, Scotland, Wales ... and Cornwall. Yes, the Cornish may not like being called 'English', but they are definately British!!! Our country 'union' is correctly called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, meaning Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. Check out your passport.


Also ... would you consider Dublin to be a British city? My instincts say no, but what would you say?
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Old July 19th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Sandblast View Post
[B][I]There is a subtle difference here. They (Northern Ireland) still see themselves as being "Irish" as well as part of the United Kingdom .... and not "British". In the same way as we in England are also part of the United Kingdom, but we are English and also British.... I'll explain.
I think you are confusing the geographical 'British' with the political 'British'. British is the defacto nationality of someone born in the United Kingdom.... I've never heard it mentioned in relation to someone from Great Britain specifically. Similarly it is possible to be Irish without being 'Irish' I'm Irish geographically but not politically. I don't have an Irish passport or citizenship, but being born on the Island I still refer to myself as Irish, among other things.

Quote:
Technically speaking, the whole of Ireland ... whether it be North or South is not part of Great Britain. Confusingly, it IS part of the British Isles, but NOT Great Britain. Great Britain is just the mainland, which includes England, Scotland, Wales ... and Cornwall. Yes, the Cornish may not like being called 'English', but they are definately British!!! Our country 'union' is correctly called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, meaning Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. Check out your passport.

Also ... would you consider Dublin to be a British city? My instincts say no, but what would you say?
Of course it isn't a British city, suggesting again that the term 'British' is not a geographical one but a political one.

Again on the Cornish thing, it comes back to perception against fact. Sure they may not like being called English, but they are. If they want that to change I'm sure they could start a political movement.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 05:47 PM   #70
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No I certainly wouldn't consider Dublin a British city, simply because factually it isn't one.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 07:15 PM   #71
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I'd say Dublin was indeed a British city as in it grew up and flourished within the Union. Just look at most of it's architecture and layout for proof.

Of course, since the Republic split with the UK they have been trying hard to develop their own identity and also want to remove as many "British" signs as possible. (Not because they hate the British so I'm told...)
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Old July 20th, 2010, 12:13 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redstar1 View Post
I think you are confusing the geographical 'British' with the political 'British'. British is the defacto nationality of someone born in the United Kingdom.... I've never heard it mentioned in relation to someone from Great Britain specifically. Similarly it is possible to be Irish without being 'Irish' I'm Irish geographically but not politically. I don't have an Irish passport or citizenship, but being born on the Island I still refer to myself as Irish, among other things.



Of course it isn't a British city, suggesting again that the term 'British' is not a geographical one but a political one.

Again on the Cornish thing, it comes back to perception against fact. Sure they may not like being called English, but they are. If they want that to change I'm sure they could start a political movement.
Hi there.

Thanks for that ... I wasn't sure whether the people in Northern Ireland refered to themselves as both Irish and British, so thanks for putting me straight.

So, if I understand this correctly now, the Irish Republic (Eire) is part of the group of islands known as the 'British Isles', but Eire, and Dublin specifically is not British ... is that right? .... and when Eire was part of the British Empire, was Dublin British way back then, or an Irish city in the British Isles in the British Empire ??

If Northern Ireland is considered "British", then that would also make Eire "British" because Northern Ireland is not a part of Great Britain, but part of the British Isles in the same way as Eire is? Either all of Ireland is British, or none of it is!

Btw, 950 years ago, none of us over here were 'English' ... I would have been 'Mercian', residing in the Kingdom of Mercia!
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Old July 20th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #73
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Great Britain isn't a country though, the proper name is the United Kingdom of GB & NI. Although the UK can be called GB, or even Britain for short anyways.
People in NI are British politically, and geographically if you talk about the British Isles.

Take it this way, we in NI spend pounds, drive in mph and our capital is London.
In Eire, they spend Euros, drive in Km/h and their capital is Dublin.

Another thing, even though we're not part of Great Britain, we still officially have to have GB on our euro-style number plates (if we choose to have euro plates fitted)

Make no mistake, we're just as British as anyone within the UK. It's just a shame we have so many strange quirks of nationality in these Islands.
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Old July 20th, 2010, 01:05 AM   #74
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Hey Sandblast, I think you've answered your own question to an extent in the last sentence there.
Ireland is a wee bit like England 950 years ago, in that it's an island that has two national identities on one island.
In Northern Ireland, the majority of the population consider themselves to have a British identity (many have ancestral links with Scotland), and a considerably large minority identify themselves as Irish. (hence the conflict of interests)

Conversely, in the Republic of Ireland the vast majority/all of the population consider themselves Irish, and not British.
Like myself, most people have a mix of Irish and British ancestry (mainly English,) but that is just a facet of who we are and is what being Irish is all about. So, while most people have some old links to Britain, most consider themselves distinctly Irish, and such links with Britain just form a part of what the greater Irish identity is.
Similarly, in modern Ireland anyone who moves here/lives here and gets a passport, or is born here is Irish.

Dublin itself was initially a Celtic settlement, and then founded as a city by Danes and Norwegians, and was subsequently the seat of British rule in Ireland, and today the vast majority of the population identify themselves as Irish. This once again forms a part of what Irish history is all about, and as such Dublin is 100% an Irish city.

Basically, it's all a question of Identity and how one views their own identity. In the Republic of Ireland, the vast majority/all the population are Irsh. While in Northern Ireland, the population is divided between people who consider themselves as either British or Irish.

It's a complex affair, I know, but I hope that helps you somewhat!!!

Last edited by nordisk celt83; July 20th, 2010 at 01:41 AM.
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Old July 20th, 2010, 01:35 AM   #75
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I'd say Dublin was indeed a British city as in it grew up and flourished within the Union. Just look at most of it's architecture and layout for proof.
Dublin actually went into complete demise after Ireland joined the Union...
In 1800, Dublin was the fourth largest city in Europe after London, Paris and Naples. It was during the 18th century, under an Irish Parliament, that Dublin experienced it's architectural, cultural and economic Golden Age.
Most of modern-day Dublin's layout comes from either the Viking period (in Temple Bar) or the Georgian period, in the 18th century.


Following the Union, its economy collapsed due to enforced tarriffs and taxes, which resulted in the city loosing its title as 'second city' of the empire, and gaining its title as the city with the largest slums and red light districts in Western Europe.
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Old July 20th, 2010, 01:56 AM   #76
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I'm Northern Irish and British, both equally applicable and both of equal value.
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Old July 20th, 2010, 02:40 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by nordisk celt83 View Post
Dublin actually went into complete demise after Ireland joined the Union...
In 1800, Dublin was the fourth largest city in Europe after London, Paris and Naples. It was during the 18th century, under an Irish Parliament, that Dublin experienced it's architectural, cultural and economic Golden Age.
Most of modern-day Dublin's layout comes from either the Viking period (in Temple Bar) or the Georgian period, in the 18th century.


Following the Union, its economy collapsed due to enforced tarriffs and taxes, which resulted in the city loosing its title as 'second city' of the empire, and gaining its title as the city with the largest slums and red light districts in Western Europe.
It was probably the 5th largest in Europe, for a short period of time. It's decline was due to the industrial revolution and specifically Dublin having no native source of coal, or having any shipyards. Belfast developed during the same time because it was a center of industry. Dublin was merely unlucky in that it was unable to advance like other British citys of the time, not having the maritime trade base that even Belfast had. Of course there was general economic decline in Ireland after the act of union but the causes are more complex than simply being 'anti Ireland'. This led into the great famine of course and we're all aware of what happened then.
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Old July 21st, 2010, 12:35 AM   #78
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Dublin isn't, never was and never will be an industrial city; it's a city of administration, trade and commerce (much like many other European Capitals, which never embraced the industrial revolution.) If we could merely blame the lack of an industrial revolution on the economic, cultural and architectural decline of the city then why wasn't this the case in cities like Edinburgh, Bristol, Paris, Amsterdam etc (didn't catapult during the industrial rev either)...

The reason for the collapse of Dublin in the 19th century really isn't as simplistic as there having been no industrial revolution here. The removal of the parliament and all the trimmings that went with it, and subsequent taxes and tarriffs that were particular to the city itself devastated the place.
Taxes were placed on services/trades that were particular to Dublin, which led to their demise and the obligatory ripple effect such things have.

Dublin: Deposed Capital is a very good book on the subject. Written by Professor Mary Daly, who while being very conservative and objective in her research seems to be popular enough with the masses.


Your post explains more the rise of Belfast, rather than the decline of Dublin!!!

Last edited by nordisk celt83; July 21st, 2010 at 12:51 AM.
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Old July 21st, 2010, 04:55 AM   #79
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In answer to this Dublin is a commercial city - end of story. At least when a financial crisis hits we are in there with the most spectacular results! Ask the Germans about Hypo and you will understand!
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Old August 8th, 2010, 01:23 AM   #80
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@ Snailtrain, a response to your question about healthcare:


From a personal perspective, I think you're absolutely right that the NHS is quite superior to the HSE, but the World Health Organisation says they are pretty much equal, being placed 18th and 19th in the world respectively.


http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf


Anyway, in relation to your question; it's certainly more complicated in the ROI. Since the commencement of the recession the number of people in the ROI who have a medical card has risen from 32% to 40% of the population.
This card entitles you to free GP visits, free prescription drugs, free emergency visits and obviosuly free healthcare if you have a more serious health problem.

Free healthcare is also provided to all those over 70, all maternity patients, all those who have a 'serious' illness e.g cancer/heart problems etc. and all those with ongoing/persitent health problems (regardless of income.)
Basically, anyone who is consitently or seriously ill (no matter their wealth) is also entitled to free healthcare in these circumstances.

Those who do not fall into these categories are asked to pay a bill of €100 for emergency visits if they do not have a referral from a GP (if they have a referral it's free.) GP visits cost €50, for non-medical card holders/ seriously ill patients...
If someone is availing of non-vital HSE medical care (like getting a mole removed/getting veins done) they are charged €100 per day. The maximum anyone can be charged for non-vital medical procedures and an extended period of time (i.e more than 10days) in HSE care is €1,000 in any given year.
However, if you claim you can't afford this, the HSE will pay it for you...


In relation to your mother; I'd imagine she'd get her perscription for free if it's an ongoing mental illness she suffers from. For families in which nobody is suffering from a serious/persistent illness, or who don't have a medical card they have to pay a maximum of €120 per month for perscription drugs for the whole family...

I know it's pretty confusing, but I hope that explanation helps a wee bit.
While you were wrong originally, I do take you're point about each jurisdiction excelling in different areas; like third level education being free for all here, and this not being replicated north of the border etc etc..

Last edited by nordisk celt83; August 8th, 2010 at 01:28 AM.
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