The Irish Skybar

[Black Cat]

Originally Posted by Sandblast

Good morning Irish folk, hope all is well over there. I wrote this below on an English thread, and now I've read through it a few times I'm not sure I've written a load of cack!

Have a look and let me know. Cheers.



There is a subtle difference here. They (Northern Ireland) still see themselves as being "Irish" as well as part of the United Kingdom .... and not "British". In the same way as we in England are also part of the United Kingdom, but we are English and also British.... I'll explain.

Technically speaking, the whole of Ireland ... whether it be North or South is not part of Great Britain. Confusingly, it IS part of the British Isles, but NOT Great Britain. Great Britain is just the mainland, which includes England, Scotland, Wales ... and Cornwall. Yes, the Cornish may not like being called 'English', but they are definately British!!! Our country 'union' is correctly called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, meaning Northern Ireland is not part of Britain. Check out your passport.

Also ... would you consider Dublin to be a British city? My instincts say no, but what would you say?

Are Irish British: Seems to be a matter of perspective. If you are a person from the British Isles, one can include Irish people as British. If you are referring to the nation state of the Uk or Great Britain, one can also be British. Many people across the world who come from British Commonwealth countries (formerly parts of the British Empire) also consider themselves British. Being British can be a very inclusive sense of identity and does not mean that one cannot have other identities. One can be English and British, and Irish and British (and European).

Dublin: Yes its the capital of Ireland, and Dublin is rightly considered an Irish city by its citizens and by Irish people, but its urban and architectural character unquestionably reflects that of a British city, which it effectively was till the 20s. As Dublin was never blitzed or suffered major post war reconstruction/redevelopement, I consider Dublin to be one of the most intact large British type cities in the British Isles with much wonderful architecture.

[odlum833]

Originally Posted by Black Cat

If you are a person from the British Isles, one can include Irish people as British.

No, you are not entitled to a British passport here. This is a sovereign country not part of the "British" Isles by definition. Global atlas are changing this now. They have done already but I suppose it takes a while to filter down.

[belfastuniguy]

British Isles is still and by far the most common term for the islands. Different terms are mainly confined to the realm of academia.

[Black Cat]

Eligibility to have a passport is not the only definition of how one identifies oneself. My mother is Irish through and through, born in Mayo of catholic farmers, but insists she is also British. (She has had a British passport since the 50s I believe.) She sees no contradiction and nor do many in my family who have Irish heritage but are second or third generation in the UK. Equally this could be said of Irish people in the US, Australia, and around the world who can have more than one national identity - a great number of people have multiple/overlapping national identities based on blood, ethnicity, geography and citizenship.

It used to be that all people in Eire were entitled to a British passport. I'm not sure though if that is still the case after the citizenship reforms of the 80s onward - though this has become unimportant as both the UK and Ireland are part of the EU.

[niterider]

Originally Posted by odlum833

No, you are not entitled to a British passport here. This is a sovereign country not part of the "British" Isles by definition. Global atlas are changing this now. They have done already but I suppose it takes a while to filter down.

Whatever one's allegiances if from Northern Ireland, 'British Isles' is a geographical term. Geographical terms do not convey nationality.

Irish citizens are not classed as 'foreign' citizens in the UK (aside from EU status & rights etc). They have have full right of abode in the UK and voting rights....hence the common travel area which negates the need for passports between the two countries. The ROI has extremely close links with the UK in this regard - both don't view each other as 'foreign' in the usual sense.

[Rumors]

Hey guys if you want to see the Montreal St. Patrick's day parade, that I photographed you can see it here. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1345941

[Dan]

Originally Posted by niterider

Whatever one's allegiances if from Northern Ireland, 'British Isles' is a geographical term. Geographical terms do not convey nationality.

Irish citizens are not classed as 'foreign' citizens in the UK (aside from EU status & rights etc). They have have full right of abode in the UK and voting rights....hence the common travel area which negates the need for passports between the two countries. The ROI has extremely close links with the UK in this regard - both don't view each other as 'foreign' in the usual sense.

Why does Ireland have passport/ID checks on flights arriving from the UK in light of the CTA? They don't check on the way back, going into the UK.

[Viking74]

I flew into Bristol a couple of years back from Dublin and it was worse than going through US customs. Everyone was asked for ID, and what their purpose was travelling to the UK, which was very strange. The only thing they didn't do was fingerprint us! And was very intimidating. It took us an hour or so to go through security checks. Maybe sometimes they are actively looking for certain people on flights in both countries.

[manrush]

I'm curious: how does one anglicise Dublin's Gaelic name, Baile Atha Cliath?

Would it be Ballyclea, or something?

[Dan]

When will Ireland be coming out with the plastic style EU driving licenses? Anyone know?

[Catmalojin]

Originally Posted by Dan

When will Ireland be coming out with the plastic style EU driving licenses? Anyone know?

Soon, I hope. There was a news story a few months ago (before the new government got into power, but I can't see them doing a u-turn) saying it would happen within a year. I'm not sure, but I think there's an EU Directive on the issue which is due to run out before long.

The sooner, the better. It's embarrassing at this stage.

Don't forget that new Public Services Cards are due to be (or are being?) rolled out pretty shortly.

[Dan]

The EU directive is for 1 January 2013, I think. But it would be nice for it to be sooner!

[odlum833]

A bizarre thing happened in Cork today

Man arrested after garda attack, hijack
Updated: 18:56, Sunday, 22 May 2011

A man has been arrested after he stabbed a garda, hijacked his jeep and went on the rampage in Cork city.




The man was later overpowered at Cork airport after he broke through the security fence there and rammed several vehicles.
The man produced a knife to a garda who stopped him on Patrick St in Cork city centre at around 4.30pm.
He slashed the garda across the face, hijacked his garda jeep and drove off, ramming several other vehicles and forcing terrified shoppers to dive for cover.
He drove through the city centre, out the Southlink Road and up to Cork Airport, crashing through the security fence at the old terminal.

The man then hijacked a vehicle belonging to airport police after he produced a knife to the driver.

He rammed a garda car, injuring a garda inside.

He was making his way towards an Aer Lingus plane which was boarding at the time when his vehicle broke down.

The man was subdued and arrested.

He is now been questioned at Togher Garda Station having left a trail of destruction in his wake.

There is a video here

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0522/cork.html

[Dan]

I know this is a touchy subject but I am not trying to stir anything up, am just curious.

Why don't the counties in Northern Ireland that have a Catholic majority (and thus, I am assuming, probably have a majority supporting being part of the Republic) simply join? I have always heard that this issue would be up for the people of NI to decide and so I don't understand why this doesn't happen, on a county-by-county basis.

[belfastuniguy]

Originally Posted by Dan

I know this is a touchy subject but I am not trying to stir anything up, am just curious.

Why don't the counties in Northern Ireland that have a Catholic majority (and thus, I am assuming, probably have a majority supporting being part of the Republic) simply join? I have always heard that this issue would be up for the people of NI to decide and so I don't understand why this doesn't happen, on a county-by-county basis.

Because that would be utterly absurd. It's only as a country that such a vote would take place, should we also have parts of Belfast or Derry vote on whether they should leave the UK because West Belfast, for example, has a 'Catholic' majority?

You also make a highly flawed connection between Catholicism and republicanism/nationalism. Especially as nearly 30% of Northern Irish Catholics, by the latest available survey, wish to remain part of the United Kingdom.

What would happen to people in those counties that do not wish to join the Irish Republic for whatever social of political reason? Do they leave their homes, their children leave schools? What about services that those counties have access to as part of Northern Ireland?

[Boba Fett22]

Originally Posted by Dan

I know this is a touchy subject but I am not trying to stir anything up, am just curious.

Why don't the counties in Northern Ireland that have a Catholic majority (and thus, I am assuming, probably have a majority supporting being part of the Republic) simply join? I have always heard that this issue would be up for the people of NI to decide and so I don't understand why this doesn't happen, on a county-by-county basis.

I'm not being rude, but why are we suddenly discussing Northern Irish politics.

There's more to NI than its strife.

[odlum833]

Originally Posted by belfastuniguy

Because that would be utterly absurd.

As absurd as what happened in 1921? There were and are 3 counties that want Dublin rule. Surely you see the hypocrisy in your argument?


As for what would happen to the minority - they would simply join society - as the Catholics in the aforementioned counties were forced to in the North.

[Dan]

Like I said I didn't mean to stir anything up, I was just curious as it's something I find interesting that I've been looking into.

But yeah given the statement above is why I am a bit confused as to why this doesn't happen. And if anything, given the levels of integration between EU countries, and the lack of outright conflicts these days compared to before, the minorities that wish to stay within the UK would probably have an easier time integrating within the Republic than what was the case 100 years ago. Thus such a transfer seems much more tolerable and harmless than it would have been before. And it seems only fair given that a majority within those places wish for it.

[Boba Fett22]

Perhaps you're right, I'm not saying if I want that or not, but I doubt it would ever actually happen.

[belfastuniguy]

Originally Posted by odlum833

As absurd as what happened in 1921? There were and are 3 counties that want Dublin rule. Surely you see the hypocrisy in your argument?


As for what would happen to the minority - they would simply join society - as the Catholics in the aforementioned counties were forced to in the North.

Really.....you have any evidence to support that? Any recent surveys, opinion polls? Anything like that? What about the people in those counties that have no desire whatsoever to be ruled from Dublin, whether they be Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Atheist or whatever else? What say do they get?


No thought not.


Anyway the border was agreed by the Irish government at the time so less of the bleeding heart. You also signed anyway any claim to them in 1998.

Move on, everyone has. I really don't see any point in discussing this further, it'll never happen. The only possibility of it happening is when/if Northern Ireland as a state votes to support a united Ireland. Until then........lets just be happy we have peace and some stablity FFS.