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Old August 30th, 2015, 03:50 PM   #401
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I have no knowledge about Rennes, but was that necessarily the best decision?
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Old August 30th, 2015, 04:22 PM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
Vitoria and Santa Cruz de Tenerife could also be on the list of successful Spanish trams.

In Barcelona and Valencia trams have also been successful, although in these cities there are metro networks and trams act primarily as feeder routes.

There are also cities where tram has a huge potential but the network is yet to be finished, like Murcia or Alicante. When completely finished, trams in both cities will be a story of success, I'm sure. The same can be said of the tram under construction in Granada.

Then there are cities where tram networks are a toy (Sevilla and Bilbao) or others where they have been badly planned (Madrid).

Finally there are shameful cases of trams without service due to political disputes and lack of planning (Jaén and Vélez-Málaga).
Well, until now Zaragoza is the only city where I have seen data pointing to a significant number of cars disappearing, here we are talking about tens of thousands of cars while for Barcelona some data published for Cornella/l'Hospitalet showed numbers in the low thousands and in Madrid it was in the low hundreds for the western tram. I have not seen car related data for other cities but I doubt they are anywhere close to the decline in car traffic we see in Zaragoza.

Only pointing to passenger numbers for the tram system isn't really a good indicator to show if it is successful or not as it will absorb pedestrian and buss travelers in huge numbers, these people don't drive anyways so they have no impact on car traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christi69 View Post
It is not too small: compare it to Rennes in France, smaller, with one subway line and a second under construction.
The subsoil in Zaragoza you don't wanna touch with a 10 foot pole, it is a cluster**** of sedimentary minerals which are just horrible to tunnel through (the soil is unstable and completely unreliable), a subway in Zaragoza would be super expensive and not very practical at all. You would have to tunnel at great depth as cut and cover isn't really an option unless you want to completely avoid the city center. The subway would have to be similar to line 9 in Barcelona, and the cost would probably be in the many hundreds of millions per km of tunnel. I dare to say it would be deemed uneconomical already in the planning phase.

Last edited by gincan; August 30th, 2015 at 05:05 PM.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 10:41 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Zaragoza is too small for a proper subway so trams is a right way to go. I don't think it's even worth a discussion. Malaga is a bit of a borderline case too, but it does make some sense there. Bigger city, a lot more visitors and much higher prospects for future population growth.

Alserrod: do you have a map with your proposal for L2?
Hi

It is my proposal but official proposal

Something like this:

https://www.google.es/maps/dir/41.65...a=!4m2!4m1!3e2
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Old October 4th, 2016, 08:18 AM   #404
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The Pilar festivities are around the corner. Next Saturday, over a week celebrations will change the habits of how to move around the city, with new areas for enjoyment (Funfair, Oktoberfest, Concerts, Children Activities,...) that require a considerable work additional services and frequencies. Zaragoza City Council just presented the mobility plan for our beloved "Fiestas del Pilar"... where the whole fleet of buses and trams will be operational.
Tram will be running 24 hours, and buses will expand their working hours up to 3pm, with better services on the Night buses (Owl).

Additional information in my blog: http://chusanch.blogspot.com.es/2016...blica-los.html

Still time for people to come and enjoy our festivities (and transport).
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Old October 4th, 2016, 10:38 AM   #405
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In the last few months, up to eight (!) buses have burned down, including one on line 41 (the one that started my search for other 41s). It is said bad maintenance is the cause of the abnormally high number of fires, although Auzsa (who runs urban buses in Zaragoza) denies this.
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Old October 4th, 2016, 12:45 PM   #406
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Any news on the project of the second tram line?
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Old October 4th, 2016, 08:44 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
Any news on the project of the second tram line?
Politicians now are worried about other "more" important things... We now that ZeC, governing party, is in favour of the project... but we are still waiting for the results of the "expensive" study that will come up with recommendations...

It's being a very slow process...
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Old October 4th, 2016, 08:51 PM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
In the last few months, up to eight (!) buses have burned down, including one on line 41 (the one that started my search for other 41s). It is said bad maintenance is the cause of the abnormally high number of fires, although Auzsa (who runs urban buses in Zaragoza) denies this.
According to EPA, (local newspaper), Zaragoza CC is requesting AUZSA (Operator) to improve maintenance of buses... but in my opinion, it is just a piece of news that is there to show off as a newsline rather than being a formal request.

More info in today's entry in my blog: http://chusanch.blogspot.com.es/2016...a-pide-un.html
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Old October 8th, 2016, 09:30 AM   #409
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Zaragoza tram awarded best environmental and sustainible rail project 2016 in the 2016 Global light rail awards in London.

For some strange reason... I can only get local newspaper in Spanish. Tried to access the English version somewhere else.. and I could not reach it.

http://www.elperiodicodearagon.com/n...s_1147752.html
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Old October 11th, 2016, 08:05 PM   #410
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The underground train station at Zaragoza-Goya has pits on both sides of the island platform, but only one pit has tracks installed. Are there are any plans to double-track this station?
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Old October 12th, 2016, 01:56 AM   #411
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Not really....

Anyway, to assure former trains, it is enough with one track (they just add one minute to journey).
I made calculations and thought that second track Portillo-Delicias will help more to traffic than second track at Goya station
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Old December 11th, 2016, 09:33 AM   #412
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All the information about the Tram Line 2 project is available in this link:

https://www.zaragoza.es/sede/servicio/linea-2-tranvia/

Starting tomorrow, Zaragoza registered citizens will be given the chance to chose the best track out of the 4 options chosen.

Under my point of view, it's a big mistake that they have not planned an extension to nearby Multimodal Station, linking the city centre (and rest of districts) with the train and bus services. Additionally, there's no plans to have tram stations for more than one line.

The need for the line is there... but in my opinion, the planners are being too theorist, and are driving this network to big problems, that will cost lots of money to solve in future.
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Old February 6th, 2017, 12:08 AM   #413
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Today no Chinese metros, but some "local" things .

It's easy to clinch the whole tram "network" in one sitting as there is only one line for the time being (And I don't think more lines will be built before 2020). The hard part is how to get to and from the termini. The easy way is going back and forth in the tram. But there are bus alternates.
Getting to Avenida de la Academia is relatively easy, as line 35 has a stops at Plaza Aragon and Plaza de España and runs on a more straight route up there, with a stop right by the terminus. The other way requires a short walk from the tram terminus, as line 35 does a terminal loop through Parque Goya. Line 35 continues past Plaza Aragon to Via Hispanidad on a parallel route to the tram.
Getting to Mago de Oz is harder. The only two lines in the vicinity are shuttles toward two outlying neighborhoods (line 54 to Rosales del Canal and line 59 to the U/C Arcosur). However, hopping off the tram one can backtrack and take the second street left, and eventually get to a line 41 stop in Montecanal back to the city center, a 10 minute walk. Line 41 runs from Puerta del Carmen (West of Plaza Aragon) to Rosales del Canal on a parallel route to the tram, and is the only express bus route in Zaragoza. The other way involves getting off the bus at a stop where four lines meet (41, 55, 56, 59) which is across the street from the aforementioned inbound one, and take the first street left. Bear in mind the first stop northbound is the one further out.

There are two sections in the tram where one direction run on a different street to the other, and thus stops have different names depending on the direction. For clinching purposes I consider the following seven pairs to be the same stops:
Margarita Xirgu & Garcia Abril
Legaz Lacambra & Adolfo Aznar
Clara Campoamor & Pablo Neruda
Rosalia de Castro & Leon Felipe
Martinez Soria & Maria Montessori
Los Pajaros & La Ventana Indiscreta
Cantando Bajo la Lluvia & Un Americano en Paris

In addition, the terminus Mago de Oz, just after the last pair, is actually two different stops with the same name, one for alighting, the other (the "one further out") for boarding.
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Old February 6th, 2017, 12:21 AM   #414
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In addition, Mago de Oz (The wizard of Oz, all the neighbourhood has film names for streets) stop should be renamed.

It is not located in that street

https://www.google.es/maps/@41.62536...3479,17z?hl=es
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Old February 6th, 2017, 03:25 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
In addition, Mago de Oz (The wizard of Oz, all the neighbourhood has film names for streets) stop should be renamed.

It is not located in that street

https://www.google.es/maps/@41.62536...3479,17z?hl=es
It should have the name 'El Jardín de Alá' (The Garden of Allah, a 1936 film) instead, much more appropiate: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/108099725
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Old February 6th, 2017, 09:47 PM   #416
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I agree

(foreing people arriving to the city and getting on the tramway are surprised due to some station names)
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Old March 30th, 2017, 10:50 AM   #417
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Town hall has built very short bus lanes somewhere in the city in last months. Sometimes in streets where had two lanes except for a while with three lanes. They shifted to 2+1 bus lane.

Short cases but according to news, punctuality has growed 1-2%.
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Old March 31st, 2017, 12:01 AM   #418
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Next Sunday is the Zaragoza marathon. As a result, up to 23 bus lines (but not the one of my avatar, if I remove it is line 41) as well as the tram will be affected. This is the first time the tram partially suspends operations due to the marathon, thanks to an agreement reached by the tram operator and the marathon organizers. There will be no tram service between Plaza del Pilar-Murallas and La Chimenea (named after a nearby chimney) from 7:55 to 8:55, as the marathon starts at 8:00 and crosses the tram line soon after the start line, and then again after around 7.5 km.

PS: I'll be running a 10K that is also run with the marathon .
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Old April 7th, 2017, 05:08 PM   #419
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Due to events on street while Easter, a lot of bus lines will be moved and sometimes tramway will stop service between several stations.

Bus will not change schedules. IMO it is a mistake. On weekend and Thursday and Friday (holidays, thus sunday schedules) there will be a lot of people on the street

Tramway will increase frequences those days in some hours.

It is very typical in Spain to have several processions in Easter. In Zaragoza on Easter Friday we have the longest one as far as there aren't several groups with their journey but an only journey with the whole of groups.

This is procession map



thus tramway without service between Gran Via and Murallas (and guess about bus lines) for more than five or six hours.


Different groups in procession go... in the Bible order!!!. When founded they could choose name but after that, St Peter negation group will go before Silence group.



And, back to topic about mobility, there is one group named "Christ blood". They were founded in the 14th century or so. Nobody knows but still exists. For a long time they moved around city taking death people from paths and lanes.

Nowadays in the 21st century, that group still exists and still makes that task!!!!! How do they run?. They have ambulances and other vans and they are volunteers just in case a fatality on roads near the city. They are payed to substain vehicles and so and keep their beginings
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Old October 29th, 2017, 07:35 PM   #420
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I see it's a dead thread, but I post some photos:
Zaragoza Gran Vía by Attila Németh, on Flickr
Tranvía by Attila Németh, on Flickr
El Tranvía y el rey by Attila Németh, on Flickr
Tranvía by Attila Németh, on Flickr
Tranvía by Attila Németh, on Flickr

I don't know what to think about this tram. It's nice and I like it but it fits rather to a town of a population of 150,000, not to one whoch is about four times larger.

Bus by Attila Németh, on Flickr
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