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Old June 15th, 2013, 01:57 PM   #2521
Sunfuns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A popular myth. Americans do use their cars more than Europeans, but overall the share of transport by car between Europe and the U.S. does not differ all that much (less than 10%). It's just that in Europe you have better options with alternate transport modes than in the U.S., but for most people that's what it is; an option.

Americans use their car for 90% of their travel, in Europe this is between 80 and 90%. But Americans do travel much more distance, the average American drives twice as much as Europeans. On the other hand, Dutch car drivers commute longer than American car drivers.
European is a very vague term (as is American in this context). My relatives back in Latvia who are living outside Riga drive all the time because the public transport is rather lousy. I live in Switzerland and feel quite comfortable without a car at all. Public transport is great hear so there is no particular need.

The distance driven and less efficient cars not the share is the key reason why Americans are more sensitive to increases in fuel prices. Plus the fact that a large portion of the population is much less well off than one might assume from movies or visits to touristic places.
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Old June 15th, 2013, 02:09 PM   #2522
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I live in Switzerland and feel quite comfortable without a car at all. Public transport is great here so there is no particular need.
Even in Switzerland 79% of passenger travel is by car. Which is one of the lowest in Europe. It just shows that even with "great public transport" people still overwhelmingly choose to travel by car.

By Europe I mean EU + developed neighboring countries (such as Switzerland, Norway, Iceland).

Americans often complain about the gas prices, but high gas prices are just a part of the high cost of driving in Europe. The U.S. does not have road taxes like most European countries. Additionally, they also do not have high car purchase taxes which are common in northern Europe (I don't know if they also have separate taxes on new cars apart from VAT in southern / central Europe as well).
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Old June 15th, 2013, 02:17 PM   #2523
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Even in Switzerland 79% of passenger travel is by car. Which is one of the lowest in Europe. It just shows that even with "great public transport" people still overwhelmingly choose to travel by car.

By Europe I mean EU + developed neighboring countries (such as Switzerland, Norway, Iceland).

Americans often complain about the gas prices, but high gas prices are just a part of the high cost of driving in Europe. The U.S. does not have road taxes like most European countries. Additionally, they also do not have high car purchase taxes which are common in northern Europe (I don't know if they also have separate taxes on new cars apart from VAT in southern / central Europe as well).
Even in Switzerland you need the car if you live in a small village/distant suburb or have small children. Neither is the case for me.

But as I said before never mind the share (is that passenger kilometre share?), I've lived in US and Americans do drive a LOT more than Swiss do. Also I've rarely seen vehicles as big as are common in US on Swiss roads.

I'm yet to hear anyone here complaining about gas prices. That just doesn't seem to be a popular subject...
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Old June 15th, 2013, 02:21 PM   #2524
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Swiss gas prices are not particularly high when compared to the average income. I always felt Switzerland has a love-hate relationship with the car. On one hand it's politically incorrect, but on the other hand driving in Switzerland is not that expensive compared to many other countries (such as Norway). Gas prices are moderate by EU standards and tolls are low as well.

France has tolls + high gas prices, but if I understand correctly, the road tax to finance tax-funded roads is included in the gas price (in countries like NL, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, etc. it is a separate monthly/annual tax you have to pay).
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Old June 16th, 2013, 02:37 AM   #2525
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Gasoline was €1.54 a liter today in Århus, Denmark which is lower than e.g. Norway. But car prices in Denmark are the highest in Europe and higher than Norway which got the second highest prices in Europe. We pay 105% tax on the first €10,600 and then 180% tax on the rest and extra taxes can be added for big cars so car tax can easily exceed 200% in some cases and be more than 3 times as expensive as in a country like Sweden.

Just a few examples of some expensive cars:

BMW M6 (4,4 Coupé aut.) costs €339,195
Mercedes S600 (5,5 L aut.) costs €454,080
Audi R8 (5,2 FSi Plus Coupé quattro S-tr.) costs €494,985
Mercedes S65 (6,0 AMG L aut.) costs €643,866
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Old June 16th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #2526
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I don't think there are more than 0.1% of Danes who could afford that. What kind of cars do people with average incomes buy? I guess it would be advantageous to buy something costing less than 10,600.
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Old June 16th, 2013, 11:26 PM   #2527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian347 View Post

Just a few examples of some expensive cars:

BMW M6 (4,4 Coupé aut.) costs €339,195($452,486)
Mercedes S600 (5,5 L aut.) costs €454,080($605,742)
Audi R8 (5,2 FSi Plus Coupé quattro S-tr.) costs €494,985 ($660,309)
Mercedes S65 (6,0 AMG L aut.) costs €643,866($858,917)
US prices on the same vehicles.

BMW M6 $109,000 to $115,000(€86,2060)

Mercedes S600 $160,000 (€119,940)

Audi R8 models starts at $114,000 (€85,457)

Mercedes S65 AMG $212,000 (€158,920)
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Old June 16th, 2013, 11:44 PM   #2528
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Quote:
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I don't think there are more than 0.1% of Danes who could afford that. What kind of cars do people with average incomes buy? I guess it would be advantageous to buy something costing less than 10,600.
Yes car prices for small cars are more reasonable but still not cheap.

The most sold cars in Denmark in 2012:

1. VW Up
2. Toyota Aygo
3. Kia Picanto
4. Peugeot 107
5. Citroen C1
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Old June 17th, 2013, 09:45 AM   #2529
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Sure? All this 5 models are very small, "city-mini" cars.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 10:21 AM   #2530
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Petrol prices of February 2003

1L unleaded 95


Norway 1,32 €
Great Brittain 1,24 €
Netherlands 1,22 €
Finland 1,18 €
France 1,18 €
Italy 1,18 €
Denmark 1,17 €
Germany 1,15 €
Sweden 1,13 €
Belgium 1,11 €
Portugal 1,03 €
Switzerland 0,97 €
Austria 0,95 €
Ireland 0,94 €
Spain 0,91 €
Greece 0,81 €
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Old June 17th, 2013, 10:53 AM   #2531
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Quote:
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Sure? All this 5 models are very small, "city-mini" cars.
Yes but cars are extremely expensive in Denmark due to taxation and big cars even more so. These days those small cars are popular and they have fallen quite a bit in price compared to a few years ago.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #2532
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Yes but cars are extremely expensive in Denmark due to taxation and big cars even more so. These days those small cars are popular and they have fallen quite a bit in price compared to a few years ago.
OK, I see, thank you.
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Old June 17th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #2533
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Sure? All this 5 models are very small, "city-mini" cars.
It's not that weird, if you consider that these cars are both used as a primary and second car. Many households have more than one car, and the second car is often a compact because it's not used as much for long-distance driving. Especially households with two working parents have two cars. Then there is an increasing amount of small or single-person households who often own such a car as their only car.

These cars sell well to both demographic groups. It makes more sense to have one large family car and a small car, than two large family cars.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 03:26 PM   #2534
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posted June 13th

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A couple of days ago gas settled out at $3.49 a gallon which is an 10% Ethanol blend.
Last night when I came home from work I noticed that unleaded plus was $3.39 a gallon. Regular unleaded is .10 cents a gallon higher.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 03:33 PM   #2535
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Refilled diesel yesterday for 1.6€/l outside Brescia. Within the city prices ar as high as 1.7€/l.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 06:19 PM   #2536
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Euro 95 € 1,669 for a liter by Esso Leimuiden
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Old June 30th, 2013, 11:16 PM   #2537
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Fuel price Assens, DK on june 25th

1,55 EUR/L for 95 petrol
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Old June 30th, 2013, 11:19 PM   #2538
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I've just filled my tank, 50€: 28 liters. 1,784€/l in Rome center.

Yesterday I saw a Esso station selling unleaded 95 at 1,704
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Old July 1st, 2013, 02:52 PM   #2539
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Posted June 21st;

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post

Last night when I came home from work I noticed that unleaded plus was $3.39 a gallon. Regular unleaded is .10 cents a gallon higher.
Yesterday we gassed up the car and unleaded plus is now $3.17 a gallon.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #2540
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Posted July 1st

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Yesterday we gassed up the car and unleaded plus is now $3.17 a gallon.
As of this morning unleaded plus is down to $3.09 a gallon.
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