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Old September 9th, 2014, 10:48 AM   #2841
John Maynard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I'm not saying the European model of fuel taxation is necessarily better. Especially western Europe is overdoing the amount of taxation, but the U.S. has too low fuel taxes. Nobody wants higher fuel taxes. Nobody wants a per-mile vehicle tax and nobody wants tolls. But everybody wants better infrastructure. Those things don't mix.
In fact, many roads are tolled in the USA, but quite fairly priced, contrariwise to ridiculously high in Europe. They are portion being toll collected only till the construction costs returns, and after it become free. Likewise, you have also HOV and priority lanes (ETL) that are being tolled, but not the other portion of the road, or HOT (High Occupancy Toll) for the entire road, if the driver's alone, often prices varying during the peak hours. Turnpikes were tolled from the beginning. In consequence, many Interstate Highways, are passing through former "turnpikes" and are tolled.

I've seen in Florida, many local highways, and expressways to be tolled.
Besides, many more roads are tolled in the USA, that what people in Europe think.
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Old September 9th, 2014, 10:58 AM   #2842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
Italian Fuel Taxes:





Around .90€/liter are only taxes (VAT included).

As you can see from the first image, we still have taxes that has been put in 1935:

Abissinian war
Suez crisis
Vajont disaster
Florence flood
Belice earthquake
Friuli earthquake
Irpinia earthquake
Lebanon peace mission (.106!!)
Bosnia peace mission
train and tram driver's contract renewal
eco-bus purchase
culture funding
Lybian crisis
Liguria and Toscana flood
"salva Italia" decree
So, you still pay for the Abyssinian war in your fuel taxes....when are you going back then ?
Maybe the Suez canal would be an opportunity in your way, 2 for 1 .

Also, Vajont is still going to flood the area ?
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Old September 9th, 2014, 10:59 AM   #2843
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I'm well aware of that, some call Dallas the capital of toll roads, but in reality it is Orlando, they have just one (1) untolled freeway (I-4) and that one is going to get tolled express lanes soon.

But they are going to have much more tolls in the United States if they don't find a decent alternate source of funding. Raising the gas tax by a few cents won't cut it. States have been doing that for a long time, but they still have significant funding shortfalls.

Right now, there is a federal law against tolling existing Interstates. There's been talk of tolling more existing Interstate Highways, a concept some call 'value-added tolling' (i.e. only tolls after the freeway is improved in some way). But if the Interstates all becomes tolled, getting across the country is going to get much more expensive.

Personally I think raising the gas tax gives the most value for money. It is cheap to implement, generates a large revenue, and doesn't have the overhead associated with toll roads. The downside of increased gas tax is that the funding allocation is still a political process.
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Old September 9th, 2014, 01:14 PM   #2844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
So, you still pay for the Abyssinian war in your fuel taxes....when are you going back then ?
Maybe the Suez canal would be an opportunity in your way, 2 for 1 .

Also, Vajont is still going to flood the area ?
Better to keep all possibilities open, don't you think?

BTW, those old taxes don't matter very much: Abyssinian war tax is only 0.1 cent (0.001€)...
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Old September 9th, 2014, 05:11 PM   #2845
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Better to keep all possibilities open, don't you think?

BTW, those old taxes don't matter very much: Abyssinian war tax is only 0.1 cent (0.001€)...
The matter is that these taxes were introduced for a specific and urgent purpose, maybe justified; but the fact is they last forever, even after the original need has long gone and is not needed anymore....

IMHO, it's not honest and fair to their citizens and taxpayers to introduce such taxes, justified for some reasons, and to fool them at the end, because it's infuriatingly what it is. Moreover, Italian politicians profoundly disrespect their inhabitants and ratepayers by doing that .
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Old September 9th, 2014, 08:52 PM   #2846
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Friendly neighborhood Sunoco station dropped six cents a gallon (from 3.459 to 3.399) for regular between my walk to work this morning and lunchtime errands....
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Old September 10th, 2014, 12:58 AM   #2847
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And right back up to $3.459 as of 5:30!

Wonder if they do that every day....
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Old September 10th, 2014, 01:04 AM   #2848
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Quote:
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And right back up to $3.459 as of 5:30!

Wonder if they do that every day....
You know why they do that? Because they can!

I noticed today all the stations are charging $3.16 a gallon for unleaded plus a 10% ethanol blend. No more $3.14...
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Old September 10th, 2014, 01:29 AM   #2849
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In Toronto? Montreal is running 1.449 today.
Yes, I'm in Toronto right now. What's the reason gas prices are higher in Quebec than Ontario?
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Old September 10th, 2014, 03:22 AM   #2850
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Taxes mostly, also GTA is running on Alberta oil while Montreal runs on imported fuel (AFAIK)

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
In fact, many roads are tolled in the USA, but quite fairly priced, contrariwise to ridiculously high in Europe. They are portion being toll collected only till the construction costs returns, and after it become free. Likewise, you have also HOV and priority lanes (ETL) that are being tolled, but not the other portion of the road, or HOT (High Occupancy Toll) for the entire road, if the driver's alone, often prices varying during the peak hours. Turnpikes were tolled from the beginning. In consequence, many Interstate Highways, are passing through former "turnpikes" and are tolled.

I've seen in Florida, many local highways, and expressways to be tolled.
Besides, many more roads are tolled in the USA, that what people in Europe think.
This is often the idea but not always the practice. New York State for example has the `Thruway` system of toll roads, built / planned before the Interstate System was developed (but integrated after - e.g. sections of I-87, I-90, etc, basically linking New York City, Buffalo and Albany). The roads were built in the 1950`s and the bonds were fully paid off around 1996. However the government at the time decided to keep the toll system in place and the tolls are still charged (and they are annoying)

Last edited by Kanadzie; September 10th, 2014 at 03:29 AM.
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Old September 10th, 2014, 10:04 AM   #2851
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Well, roads also cost money after the initial construction cost is paid off.

But, if they collect tolls just for maintenance, one must expect absolutely impeccable road quality. Which is one thing I can appreciate about France, although all their major highways are tolled, but they are of outstanding quality. I've seen some toll roads in Oklahoma that looks like developing world (old concrete slabs). Well, Oklahoma's not the brightest state in road quality (apparently they have the highest percentage of deficient bridges in the U.S.)
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Old September 11th, 2014, 12:56 AM   #2852
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New York has a really weird system. They made a government-owned corporation to build and maintain the toll roads that was to self-finance from bonds and tolls. Now this corporation returns money to the state which is screwy considering it didn't take any.

But what is odder is New York also has a normal transport ministry, which also maintains freeways. So if you drive Interstate 87, for example, you go from road built and maintained by NYSDOT and then switching to NY Thruway Authority and then back to NYSDOT... it kind of makes no sense anymore.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 01:18 AM   #2853
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In the early 90s, the state government transferred several stretches of Interstate (287, 684, 84 I think...) to the Thruway Authority to get them off the state's books (and thereby balance the state's budget) but the Thruway Authority didn't make them toll roads. And there were already toll-free segments of the Thruway system in the suburbs north of the city and in the Buffalo area....
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Old September 11th, 2014, 08:01 PM   #2854
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Gas Prices in Athens 9/11/14

€ 1.57 or $ 2.03 per liter
€ 5.95 or $ 7.69 per gallon
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Old September 11th, 2014, 11:59 PM   #2855
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Fuel prices in Venezuela.

0.09 Bs or 0.01 $ per liter
0.34 Bs or 0.05 $ per gallon
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Old September 12th, 2014, 08:00 AM   #2856
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Fuel prices in Venezuela. 0.09 Bs or 0.01 $ per liter 0.34 Bs or 0.05 $ per gallon
I can't believe prices are that cheap, I should visit their and buy 1000 gallons for fifty

Last edited by Frockling; September 13th, 2014 at 02:21 AM.
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Old September 12th, 2014, 10:43 AM   #2857
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I can't believe prices are that cheap, I should visit their and buy 1000 gallons for five thousand dollars then lol
five thousands?

You can buy 1000 gallons for fifty dollars, if each gallon costs 0.05$...
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Old September 12th, 2014, 01:23 PM   #2858
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$ 0,01 per liter? In the Netherlands the actual bare price of a liter of Euro95 gas is already € 0,743. At the pump € 0,759 of excise duty and € 0,315 of VAT are added for a grand total suggested retail pump price of € 1,817 [US$ 2,35] per liter.
For those interested: I obtained my info here.
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Old September 12th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #2859
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Fuel prices in Venezuela (and a number of other countries) is heavily subsidized. Venezuelan citizens don't pay an untaxed market price, they pay far below the market price, to a ridiculous extent. Venezuela is not that poor that it needs 1 cent per liter gasoline. It is very unwise fiscal policy, and financially unsustainable if it wasn't for the huge oil exports. Other countries would bankrupt themselves over a policy like this.
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Old September 13th, 2014, 01:05 AM   #2860
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Venezuela IS bankrupting itself... the inflation rate is like 65% and nobody has any toilet paper (toilet paper!)

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five thousands?

You can buy 1000 gallons for fifty dollars, if each gallon costs 0.05$...
Indeed, and five thousand dollars for 1000 gallons would be horrible considering gasoline in USA is like $3.50 or so
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