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Old November 30th, 2015, 04:03 PM   #3581
ChrisZwolle
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It's fairly common, though less so than in the 1990s. It's especially profitable for owners of large cars with high fuel consumption, nearly all American vintage cars and pickup trucks in the Netherlands drive on LPG. My dad drives a BMW 5 series on LPG, he likes it (except for the frequent fuel stops).
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Old November 30th, 2015, 04:52 PM   #3582
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Interesting Chris. Those old classics were built to run on leaded gas. Which as far as I know is no longer manufactured.

Here in the US the only vehicles that I know that run on LPG are some commercial or governmental fleet vehicles.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 05:03 PM   #3583
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The fuel price in the Netherlands is very high, so vintage cars or pickup trucks with high fuel consumption are very expensive to drive at the equivalent of $ 7 per gallon (close to $ 10 per gallon back in '08). Converting a car or pickup truck to LPG gives a good return on investment.

LPG has largely fallen out of favor with smaller cars, due to the improvements in fuel economy with gasoline engines. It costs a good $ 1500 - 2000 to convert a car to LPG. And the monthly road tax is a bit higher.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 05:21 PM   #3584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
LPG has largely fallen out of favor with smaller cars, due to the improvements in fuel economy with gasoline engines. It costs a good $ 1500 - 2000 to convert a car to LPG......And the monthly road tax is a bit higher.
Monthly road tax! What is that? Does every auto owner have to pay? Or just certain type of vehicles? Thanks.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 06:00 PM   #3585
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Every car owner has to pay a monthly road tax (technically an ownership tax). It is dependent on weight and fuel type. It varies from € 20 for light gasoline-powered cars to over € 120 per month for mid-size diesel cars.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 07:00 PM   #3586
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Thank you! In the US, as you may know our road taxes are built into taxes on fuel.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 07:39 PM   #3587
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Neste Oil in Riga today.

E95 - 1.029 EUR/l
E98 - 1.069 EUR/l
LPG - 0.499 EUR/l
Diesel - 0.969 EUR/l
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Old November 30th, 2015, 11:16 PM   #3588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
Thank you! In the US, as you may know our road taxes are built into taxes on fuel.
Don't you worry, we've got those too! Quite a lot actually
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Old December 1st, 2015, 08:11 PM   #3589
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The United Kingdom is one of the few places (?) in Europe where Diesel Fuel is more expensive than Unleaded.............yet Diesel-powered passenger cars occupy a huge percentage of the automobile population in the UK.

But here is a thought:
Would the Diesel automobile population still have similar numbers/marketshare if:
-Vehicle Excise Duty is removed

By eliminating factors that give diesel cars an advantage, what would be the effect on diesel car numbers in the UK?
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Old December 2nd, 2015, 04:01 PM   #3590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
My dad drives a BMW 5 series on LPG, he likes it (except for the frequent fuel stops).
In Poland, LPG is quite popular, because it's much cheapper than U95 "eurosuper", and it's one of the largest country in term if users for this kind of fuel.
Also, LPG consume about 15-30% more in comparison to gasoline.
I drove cars converted into LPG (I guess that no new car is equipped from factory - why?): I felt a smoother drive in comp. to U95, no significant difference in term of performance, and drove almost the same amount of kilometers before stop to fuel as gasoline - you see, it's all depend on the tank you have: this car had 50 liters of gasoline and 60 liters of LPG tanks.
You usually mount LPG tank in the spare wheel emplacement and instead of it, so if you have a full wheel size it's better, as the tank will be bigger.
Saying that, I know that LPG is one of the cleanest type of fuel largely availaible (well, it's depend on the country, in Poland vast majority of gas station have it) - I am quite surprised that Europe had favored very dirty diesel for decades intead of LPG, or even gasoline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It costs a good $ 1500 - 2000 to convert a car to LPG. And the monthly road tax is a bit higher.
I believe you can do it for 3-4 times cheapper in Poland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
Monthly road tax! What is that? Does every auto owner have to pay? Or just certain type of vehicles? Thanks.
It's depend on the European country. In Poland, there is no yearly or monthly road taxes, you pay it when you purchase a new car, and is dependent on the engine size (it's something like 4% to 20% of the vehicle value)
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Old December 2nd, 2015, 04:08 PM   #3591
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Interesting that Greeks for some reason don't like diesel, even though it costs like 30% less.:: Why???
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Old December 2nd, 2015, 04:21 PM   #3592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
In Poland, LPG is quite popular, because it's much cheapper than U95 "eurosuper", and it's one of the largest country in term if users for this kind of fuel.
Also, LPG consume about 15-30% more in comparison to gasoline.
I drove cars converted into LPG (I guess that no new car is equipped from factory - why?): I felt a smoother drive in comp. to U95, no significant difference in term of performance, and drove almost the same amount of kilometers before stop to fuel as gasoline - you see, it's all depend on the tank you have: this car had 50 liters of gasoline and 60 liters of LPG tanks.
You usually mount LPG tank in the spare wheel emplacement and instead of it, so if you have a full wheel size it's better, as the tank will be bigger.
Saying that, I know that LPG is one of the cleanest type of fuel largely availaible (well, it's depend on the country, in Poland vast majority of gas station have it) - I am quite surprised that Europe had favored very dirty diesel for decades intead of LPG, or even gasoline.
Because even if LPG has a low emission of particules (the difference is not so much important now with all the catalytic converters on recent diesel cars), it still produce CO and has many other disadvantages...

First of all, this is not an ecological product, it's still a fossil fuel and it has a CO2 emissions level very high, and his origin makes it useless for future as it come from fossiles and unlike electricity or hydrogen for example, it can't be produced from green energy sources...

Also his price has been manipulated by the oil industry as, firstly it was presented as a fuel from waste oil and that's why it has so much low taxes despite the fact that now LPG is no more produced form wastes and is a petrochimical product fully fledged...

So I don't really understand the interrest for LPG except the fact that oil industry is lying about the origin of the product and has unjustified very low taxes...
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Old December 2nd, 2015, 04:23 PM   #3593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukraroad View Post
Interesting that Greeks for some reason don't like diesel, even though it costs like 30% less.:: Why???
Because cars with a diesel engine costs more ?!?

This is a calculation to do when you buy it, it will depends of how much you will use your car and how long it will take you to cover the difference of price at the purchase...
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Old December 2nd, 2015, 05:22 PM   #3594
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Quote:
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Because even if LPG has a low emission of particules (the difference is not so much important now with all the catalytic converters on recent diesel cars), it still produce CO and has many other disadvantages...
That's false, LPG has practically no particule emission - unlike gasoline or diesel, even with a particules filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winnipeg View Post
First of all, this is not an ecological product, it's still a fossil fuel and it has a CO2 emissions level very high, and his origin makes it useless for future as it come from fossiles and unlike electricity or hydrogen for example, it can't be produced from green energy sources...
LPG is by far the most ecological "decent" fuel avalaible actually, as it release much less CO2 and others toxical components than other fuels - by 10% to 80% less pollutants.
Furthermore, hydrogen is not an "ecological" product, as its production demand a tremandous amount of energy and there is problem with storage.
Electricity for now is not at all an alternative to fuel as you can drive only in city or short distances, moreover, the cars are too expensive to be affordable by most of the people. By the way, the batteries used to stock the energy are made of very polluting materials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winnipeg View Post
Also his price has been manipulated by the oil industry as, firstly it was presented as a fuel from waste oil and that's why it has so much low taxes despite the fact that now LPG is no more produced form wastes and is a petrochimical product fully fledged...
Actually, major oil companies are lobbying against LPG, because it's concurrences gasoline and diesel sales. Because of that, in many countries it's relatively hard to find a filling station, and there are many unreasonable restrictions for the users too. As a matter of fact, LPG is used in many other domains than transportation, as well.

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Originally Posted by winnipeg View Post
So I don't really understand the interrest for LPG except the fact that oil industry is lying about the origin of the product and has unjustified very low taxes...
The interest is simple: less polution, cleaner and longer life for the engine, less servicing for that reason, less costs and is not based on "lyings" of the oil companies, quite the contrary in fact. Imposing higher taxes will end up only in increasing pollution, which is contrary to the EU goals and strategies.
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Last edited by John Maynard; December 2nd, 2015 at 05:27 PM.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 03:58 PM   #3595
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Zabrze, Poland - shell:

E95: 4,25 PLN > 0,98 EUR
E98 (power): 4,65 PLN > 1,07 EUR
Diesel: 4,18 PLN > 0,96 EUR
Diesel (power): 4,60 PLN > 1,06 EUR
LPG: 2,10 PLN > 0,48 EUR

1 EUR = 4,34 PLN
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Old December 9th, 2015, 04:07 PM   #3596
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I saw this in the Auchan petrol station: E95 4.22 PLN(0.97€) and diesel at 4.08 PLN(0.935€). At the same €/PLN rate. Gas in Krakow(where I took the price) was 2.08-2.10 PLN everywhere
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Old December 10th, 2015, 01:37 AM   #3597
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Just tanked at 87,6 cents CAD/L (0,59 EUR/L; 2.457 USD/gal) in Hamilton, ON area
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Old December 10th, 2015, 09:18 AM   #3598
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Here in Bjæverskov the 95 has dropped down to DKK 9.42, €1.256

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Old December 10th, 2015, 01:44 PM   #3599
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Yesterday the lowest prices in the Hamburg area were:
Super E10: 1,169€/l
Super E5: 1,189€/l
Diesel: 0,959€/l
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Old December 10th, 2015, 03:43 PM   #3600
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Geez, the 'maximum' (standard) price for Euro 95 is still at € 1.564 in the Netherlands. You can find many discounts near € 1.40 though.
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