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Old May 13th, 2010, 05:20 PM   #981
Penn's Woods
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's a common misconception among Americans that driving becomes unaffordable at fuel prices that are 6, 7 or 8 dollars per gallon. Europeans drive a lot, only slightly less than Americans (84% vs 92%).
Well, whether it's a misconception or not depends on how much money you have to spend. I certainly would not, last weekend, have been able to (1) fill up in Paris, (2) drive to Bordeaux on the A10, (3) fill up again and (4) drive back....
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Old May 13th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #982
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Well, that's because French motorway tolls are insane. But gas-money wise it is fairly affordable, its about 1190km, assuming 5.5l of diesel/100km priced at 1.20€ is under 80€. About 10h of McDonalds work?

And don't forget that there is such thing as a train. You can be in Bordeaux in 3 hours for about 60-80€ (depending when are you buying the ticket)

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Old May 13th, 2010, 06:44 PM   #983
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Well, that's because French motorway tolls are insane. But gas-money wise it is fairly affordable, its about 1190km, assuming 5.5l of diesel/100km priced at 1.20€ is under 80€. About 10h of McDonalds work?

And don't forget that there is such thing as a train. You can be in Bordeaux in 3 hours for about 60-80€ (depending when are you buying the ticket)
I realize there's such a thing as a train. I lived without a car for over a decade, in one of the few cities in the U.S. where that's viable. If one wants to go by road, and one makes a middle-class salary, and has to pay things like rent and food and cable bills....

And I just used Paris-Bordeaux as an example.... Suppose you wanted to do that route but you like driving or you're such a geek you want to see what the roads are like. Or you want to do a route in France where trains make less or no sense - you want to go by autoroute to Brittany (to get there fast) and then explore the countryside by local roads. Even if you're doing that sort of thing in a country without insane tolls, the difference between European and American gas prices might require, for many people, some adjustment in priorities, and for some people it'd be prohibitive. That's all I'm saying.
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Old May 13th, 2010, 07:47 PM   #984
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There could be multiple reasons. For example scarcity. If there aren't much gas stations in Euboea, the few there are can raise prices, people won't drive 50 or so km to go to a cheaper gas stations anyway.
From Halkida town (the biggest town in Euboea) until the village of Kirinthos (google it to see the distance) i count at least 7
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Old May 13th, 2010, 11:09 PM   #985
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Even if you're doing that sort of thing in a country without insane tolls, the difference between European and American gas prices might require, for many people, some adjustment in priorities, and for some people it'd be prohibitive. That's all I'm saying.
Well, duh. Of course that it requires some adjustment in priorities. And less percentage of Frenchmen spend their time dicking around some villages in their cars than their American friends. And it is obvious that some people 'likes driving' but chose to go by a train because it is cheaper. But still I don't understand Americans bitching about "oh, I can't understand how do Europeans afford to drive their cars". I can see a post like that every third page in this topic.
Look now - in Poland, considering purchasing power adjusted prices gas is about 10-12 times more expensive than in USA. It is somewhat balanced with more economic cars and widespread use of LPG but still you probably consider the fact that almost every family has a car and does an average of 20000km per year (some statistics I've just found) a god damned miracle, don't you?
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Old May 13th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #986
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Well, duh. Of course that it requires some adjustment in priorities. And less percentage of Frenchmen spend their time dicking around some villages in their cars than their American friends. And it is obvious that some people 'likes driving' but chose to go by a train because it is cheaper. But still I don't understand Americans bitching about "oh, I can't understand how do Europeans afford to drive their cars". I can see a post like that every third page in this topic.
Look now - in Poland, considering purchasing power adjusted prices gas is about 10-12 times more expensive than in USA. It is somewhat balanced with more economic cars and widespread use of LPG but still you probably consider the fact that almost every family has a car and does an average of 20000km per year (some statistics I've just found) a god damned miracle, don't you?
"Duh," indeed. My observation was meant much more casually than you're taking it. Forgive me for expressing an opinion. [Sheesh.]
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Old May 14th, 2010, 01:48 AM   #987
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Well then again you have to take into account that American fuel economy might give you the high 20's in mpgs but in Europe you can easily have 60-70mpg so the difference is big. Lets say for example a car gets 27mpg with 15 gallons and another one gets 67mpg with the same size gas tank. Well one would get 405 miles out of the tank and the other 1005 lets say the car with 27mpg filled up at $3/gallon=$45 and the other car filled up for $105 at $7/gallon. It would take the car with 27mpg about 2.5 tanks to equal the cost and distance of the car getting 67mpg. The cost loses the gap when you take that into consideration.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 01:51 AM   #988
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There are almost no models which have a consumption of 60 mpg or lower. Most gasoline cars in Europe consume somewhere between 26 and 38 mpg, and diesel cars and hybrids somewhere between 40 and 54 mpg.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 01:53 AM   #989
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There are almost no models which have a consumption of 60 mpg or lower. Most gasoline cars in Europe consume somewhere between 26 and 38 mpg, and diesel cars and hybrids somewhere between 40 and 54 mpg.
I'm talking highway mileage and I've read about a few diesels getting 60-70mpg.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 01:54 AM   #990
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70 mpg is 30 kilometers per liter. There are maybe 2 or 3 models that reach that kind of consumption, and are certainly not widespread on European roads.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 01:57 AM   #991
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Well either way the average mileage is higher mostly because of diesel.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 01:58 AM   #992
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Its not the VAT or in Greek ΦΠΑ, its because some gas station owners they increase the price they selfs... If was by the VAT the price would be almost the same for all Greece

For examble, how could the fuel price in one particurarly gas station in Athens be 1,44€ and in another gas station in Mantoudi town, North Euboea (some company) 1,52€?
Zone pricing.

It is pretty common in the US, usually the more richer or more crowded areas (be it downtown, near shopping malls, etc) tend to have higher gas prices than less traveled areas, such as industrial zones.

Explains why I've seen prices here in Hartford as low as $2.97/gallon (€0.625/l) in one spot and as high as $3.25/gallon (€0.684/l) in another.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #993
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I filled my tank with commom gasoline here in Rio de Janeiro today, and this was the least expensive gas station I found.

R$2,50/ litre or U$5,19/gallon
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Old May 16th, 2010, 04:59 AM   #994
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in LA, it's 3.01 a gallon average
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Old May 16th, 2010, 02:18 PM   #995
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In Denmark fuel (95) is: DKK 11.22 (€ 1.496)
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Old May 19th, 2010, 05:27 PM   #996
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Gas prices along the N35 highway near Zwolle, Netherlands.

The red numbers indicate the number of cents discount. In this case, regular gasoline is € 1.469 per liter or $ 7.07 per gallon. Non-discounted prices are found along freeways. They charge around $ 7.50 per gallon.

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Old May 19th, 2010, 05:33 PM   #997
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Discount compared to what??

In Denmark, the major oil companies give the smallest possible discount on unmanned stations compared to manned ones (Shell, Q8, OK and YX gives 1 €-cent /litre on gas and 3 on diesel.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 05:34 PM   #998
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Discount compared to what??
The national average. (usually the gas prices along freeways)
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Old May 19th, 2010, 05:35 PM   #999
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Do the gas companies in NL set a national standard price or is it determined locally??
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Old May 19th, 2010, 05:48 PM   #1000
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There is a national standard price. Gas stations are allowed to discount as much as they deem necessary to attract customers. The result is freeway gas stations discount close to nothing, urban manned gas stations a few cents and unmanned automated gas stations usually around 8 - 11 cents.
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